Unable To Stop My Extreme Serotonin Toxicity

[nostalgic]

Lithium is powerful anti serotonin nutrient... Heals gut like no other agent ...
Tianiptine is powerful but has some side effects...

And yes Triiodothyronine is great against serotonin...
Active Charcoal is a good tool as well

Lithium? I thought it could cause SS when mixed with SSRIs and the likes, but it's fine on its own? I'll give T3 a try eventually, and charcoal as well, but right now I don't want to risk getting even worse.

Have you considered increasing the intake of vit K1, folate, choline, through foods? Possibly selenium as well. Vit C can be tricky because it affects trace minerals too much, and you might already be in need for more.

Vitamins and minerals are not on the top of my list atm, but I'll get to it if I can tolerate the potato juice.

The SSRIS definitely threw off his nuerochemistry, simple solutions are logical, but I know from experience, this manifestation has a life of its own that can't always be remedied immediately.

So true, this disaster is anything but easy to solve.

 

[Peata]

Cyproheptadine is used for serotonin syndrome, as you know. But since you say it caused gastritis when you took it, can you try it topically instead?

 

[Diokine]

It might be helpful to reframe your thinking about this - my contention is that your serotonin syndrome was more caused by severe gut irritation than by the SSRI. This is a systemic issue caused by serious gut injury, and addressing that will work more towards bringing you to good health than anything else. You're sensitive to everything because your gut is severely compromised, not the other way around.

If you're looking for specific advice;

Restriction of food is sometimes necessary in extreme cases. In your case I would recommend zero starch. Some green veggie broths with salt should be very helpful, along with mushroom broths. Salt is important here because it can help your kidneys to be more effective. Nutritional yeast is a very good source of trace minerals, amino acids low in sulfur, non-synthetic water soluble vitamins, and is usually well tolerated. Fruit may or may not be tolerated well,and is usually better cooked. Freshly prepared fruit juices are usually well tolerated.

Vitamin D is very important, topical administration of 10-20K IU 3x / week is a decent starting point. Niacinamine, 50mg 3x day should be very helpful.

I agree with @Amazoniac that you need to get your inuitive systems on track again. Consume your nutrition in an integrated fashion, with regards to smell and taste.

Low dose nicotine would probably be helpful as well.

 

[nostalgic]

Cyproheptadine is used for serotonin syndrome, as you know. But since you say it caused gastritis when you took it, can you try it topically instead?

Please tell me how to apply it topically, cause I have no clue.

 

[Peata]

Please tell me how to apply it topically, cause I have no clue.

I haven't used it topically myself, but read that others have.

Someone crushed tablets (used 1 or 2 mg) and made their own topical: Minty Coolness Effect From Cyproheptadine

Haidut has it already in liquid form. Cyproheptadine - Antihistamine And Antiserotonin For R&D There's info on the first page on how to use it.

 

[nostalgic]

I haven't used it topically myself, but read that others have.

Someone crushed tablets (used 1 or 2 mg) and made their own topical: Minty Coolness Effect From Cyproheptadine

Haidut has it already in liquid form. Cyproheptadine - Antihistamine And Antiserotonin For R&D There's info on the first page on how to use it.

Thanks a bunch. Really interesting that it has an effect when applied topically.

There should be no risk of it getting to my GI then, right?

 

[tara]

For some time to come, I will stick to butter, carrots, coconut oil, and potato juice once the centrifuge arrives. That should be enough to survive for a while, I'm very cautious as not to mess up this even more.

Making cooked carrots a large part of your calories looks hazardous to me. If you notice any tendency at all to yellow/orange skin, that would be a strong indicator to back off. People have died from trying to live on carrots. (Eating some carrot may well be fine - that depends on how your system handles it - just not large amounts daily.) If you are removing most of the starch from the potato juice, you'll get some good protein, but not much carbs/energy from that. If the butter and coconut oil work for you, that's something.
I'd recommend trying vege broth to get in some minerals - even if you can't deal with the solids, you may be able to get in some important minerals in liquid form.
There are a couple of people here who found ways to recover their health with seriously damaged digestion. I'll try to remember their user names so you can look them up.

 

[Amazoniac]

The SSRIS definitely threw off his nuerochemistry, simple solutions are logical, but I know from experience, this manifestation has a life of its own that can't always be remedied immediately.

But he used the drug for a reason.

@Diokine - this is not the first time that you suggest people to "fast" and rebuild from scratch, and unfortunately most of the time you're ignored. People miss the fact that if digestion is messed up, giving it a rest can be all that's needed to normalize things and regain control the of situation. Also the peace of mind that comes along the avoidance of forcing feeding and the rest from irritation, which is great to develop awareness of needs again.

In terms of supplementation of vit D, if really needed, personally I would try something more conservative such as 1000IU orally two times a day, or even less. Combined at the same time with the rest of the fat-solubles. However, since it depends on magnesium for example, it can have a negative overall effect if he's already deficient in a few nutrients.
Niacinamide can be too demanding for someone that's struggling to get enough nutrition while avoiding irritation. In my opinion he might be needing the nutrients that I mentioned more than niacin, regardless of its therapeutic value.

This is just an opinion and I just can't allow myself to prey on someone's willingness to accept suggestions. Please question all that you read here, especially from me.

 

[Peata]

Thanks a bunch. Really interesting that it has an effect when applied topically.

There should be no risk of it getting to my GI then, right?

Sorry, I don't know. Do you think cypro caused the gastritis or the serotonin syndrome caused it? Supplements or additives in them can irritate stomach.

When my gastritis flared up, I used Carafate to coat stomach. I was desperate for relief, and only used it short term. Have you tried that and/or Pepcid?

I'm currently taking cyproheptadine, and so far I'm having less stomach issues (including symptoms one usually doesn't associate with stomach, like sped up heart rate, dizziness, anxiety, etc.) unless I really overdo it and eat the wrong thing or too much of it (like too much hard candies or too much liquid at once).

 

[nostalgic]

But he used the drug for a reason.

@Diokine - this is not the first time that you suggest people to "fast" and rebuild from scratch, and unfortunately most of the time you're ignored. People miss the fact that if digestion is messed up, giving it a rest can be all that's needed to normalize things and regain control the of situation. Also the peace of mind that comes along the avoidance of forcing feeding and the rest from irritation, which is great to develop awareness of needs again.

In terms of supplementation of vit D, if really needed, personally I would try something more conservative such as 1000IU orally two times a day, or even less. Combined at the same time with the rest of the fat-solubles. However, since it depends on magnesium for example, it can have a negative overall effect if he's already deficient in a few nutrients.
Niacinamide can be too demanding for someone that's struggling to get enough nutrition while avoiding irritation. In my opinion he might be needing the nutrients that I mentioned more than niacin, regardless of its therapeutic value.

This is just an opinion and I just can't allow myself to prey on someone's willingness to accept suggestions. Please question all that you read here, especially from me.

I suffer from CFS and I've read on forums that Lexapro has helped some with the fatigue, so I wanted to give it a shot.

I've picked up a centrifuge now and currently waiting for the starch to settle at the bottom of the container. Will start slowly and see how my body reacts to it.

Sorry, I don't know. Do you think cypro caused the gastritis or the serotonin syndrome caused it? Supplements or additives in them can irritate stomach.

When my gastritis flared up, I used Carafate to coat stomach. I was desperate for relief, and only used it short term. Have you tried that and/or Pepcid?

I'm currently taking cyproheptadine, and so far I'm having less stomach issues (including symptoms one usually doesn't associate with stomach, like sped up heart rate, dizziness, anxiety, etc.) unless I really overdo it and eat the wrong thing or too much of it (like too much hard candies or too much liquid at once).

Not long after taking cyproheptadine I got some awful reflux which made me choke, and it gave me some breathing problems for a couple of days after, and the stomach was burning etc.

Since my digestion is in poor shape I don't know if it'd be wise to reduce the stomach acids, correct me if I'm wrong.

Do you guys think that keeping a low carb diet would reduce the serotonin? From what I understand carbs are needed for the tryptophan to pass the BBB.

 

[nostalgic]

Regarding the potato juice: there are 3 layers, and I'm aware that the bottom layer is the starch, but what about the top layer - the foam? Are both top the and middle layers supposed to be used?

 

[Peata]

I suffer from CFS and I've read on forums that Lexapro has helped some with the fatigue, so I wanted to give it a shot.

I've picked up a centrifuge now and currently waiting for the starch to settle at the bottom of the container. Will start slowly and see how my body reacts to it.



Not long after taking cyproheptadine I got some awful reflux which made me choke, and it gave me some breathing problems for a couple of days after, and the stomach was burning etc.

Since my digestion is in poor shape I don't know if it'd be wise to reduce the stomach acids, correct me if I'm wrong.

Do you guys think that keeping a low carb diet would reduce the serotonin? From what I understand carbs are needed for the tryptophan to pass the BBB.

There's talk about GI issues and cypro at this post: Cyproheptadine - A Wonder Drug?

 

[nostalgic]

There's talk about GI issues and cypro at this post: Cyproheptadine - A Wonder Drug?

Well I reacted awfully to it. I'm very interested if it'd be possible to apply it topically without it acting on my GI tract. Does anyone know?

Ate about 1kg of carrots and some butter today, and during my last meal with carrots I experienced minor serotonin toxicity that still lingers like 5 hours later. I'm gonna do the same thing tomorrow and see if I react better or worse, and if it's worse I'm afraid I'll soon be done for.

 

[lampofred]

Well I reacted awfully to it. I'm very interested if it'd be possible to apply it topically without it acting on my GI tract. Does anyone know?

Ate about 1kg of carrots and some butter today, and during my last meal with carrots I experienced minor serotonin toxicity that still lingers like 5 hours later. I'm gonna do the same thing tomorrow and see if I react better or worse, and if it's worse I'm afraid I'll soon be done for.

Can you try fasting and meditation/hypoventilation? Fasting is the most powerful tryptophan deprivation tool, and hypoventilation/buteyko/pranayama while relaxing and meditating will build up CO2 which will antagonize serotonin.

 

[nostalgic]

Can you try fasting and meditation/hypoventilation? Fasting is the most powerful tryptophan deprivation tool, and hypoventilation/buteyko/pranayama while relaxing and meditating will build up CO2 which will antagonize serotonin.

I appreciate the reply.
If fasting deprives tryptophan, how will that help the future ingestion of tryptophan?

Could you please explain how I'd do the hypoventilation, I'm willing to try everything.

 

[lampofred]

I appreciate the reply.
If fasting deprives tryptophan, how will that help the future ingestion of tryptophan?

Could you please explain how I'd do the hypoventilation, I'm willing to try everything.

The fasting is so that you don't have to deal with serotonin toxicity symptoms in the short term since you're saying that even carrots are giving you bad symptoms. The CO2 from the hypoventilation is what will actually help for the future. Also I'd suggest mixing a generous amount of salt or baking soda in some water and drinking that b/c that will instantly lower serotonin/raise CO2.

You can either do bag breathing as Peat recommends (breathing into a plastic/paper bag around your nose and face so that you are breathing the same air over and over again), or you can do a form of pranayama which is breathing through only one nostril, or you can try the buteyko method, which involves making your breathing shallower and less frequent (a good website for details on this is normalbreathing.com). The common result from all three of these methods is a decrease in ventilation (hypoventilation) and as a result an increase in CO2 which will inhibit serotonin release.

 

[nostalgic]

The fasting is so that you don't have to deal with serotonin toxicity symptoms in the short term since you're saying that even carrots are giving you bad symptoms. The CO2 from the hypoventilation is what will actually help for the future. Also I'd suggest mixing a generous amount of salt or baking soda in some water and drinking that b/c that will instantly lower serotonin/raise CO2.

You can either do bag breathing as Peat recommends (breathing into a plastic/paper bag around your nose and face so that you are breathing the same air over and over again), or you can do a form of pranayama which is breathing through only one nostril, or you can try the buteyko method, which involves making your breathing shallower and less frequent (a good website for details on this is normalbreathing.com). The common result from all three of these methods is a decrease in ventilation (hypoventilation) and as a result an increase in CO2 which will inhibit serotonin release.

Thank you very much for the tips. I fasted yesterday but felt very ill so I ended it today, and if it only affects the serotonin temporarily it doesn't really matter. I don't care about the symptoms per say, I just want to survive.

So salt will lower serotonin? Would taking it 30 mins before eating be a good idea? I thought maybe it had better effect on an empty stomach, or does it work even if I take it with food? And maybe it would make the gastritis worse, or maybe just temporarily worsen the symptoms? Also, how much?

Baking soda would reduce the digestion though, right? Wouldn't that increase serotonin from poor digestion?

I already only breathe through 1 nostril since many years back, don't know the english word for it but one nostril is almost completely blocked. I'll try the buteyko technique. How long do I do this for?

e: I read this on that site:

The Buteyko breathing technique has the most effective system of lifestyle changes for maximum body-oxygen levels 24/7.

Won't that make my serotonin increase in the long run then? Will the same thing happen if I use the bag trick?

 

[lampofred]

Thank you very much for the tips. I fasted yesterday but felt very ill so I ended it today, and if it only affects the serotonin temporarily it doesn't really matter. I don't care about the symptoms per say, I just want to survive.

So salt will lower serotonin? Would taking it 30 mins before eating be a good idea? I thought maybe it had better effect on an empty stomach, or does it work even if I take it with food? And maybe it would make the gastritis worse, or maybe just temporarily worsen the symptoms? Also, how much?

Baking soda would reduce the digestion though, right? Wouldn't that increase serotonin from poor digestion?

I already only breathe through 1 nostril since many years back, don't know the english word for it but one nostril is almost completely blocked. I'll try the buteyko technique. How long do I do this for?

Serotonin clearance is dependent on salt intake, so if you've only been eating carrots/butter/coconut oil/rice for a while, you're probably severely sodium deficient. Just saturate the water with the salt and drink it unless your symptoms flare up severely. I've taken a tablespoon of salt in one sitting with no negative symptoms, just a very noticeable decrease in serotonergic symptoms. Don't think baking soda will increase serotonin, but if you're worried about it, salt should be pretty similar, so maybe just try that first. Drinking a salt solution will most likely make you hungry b/c of serotonin clearance so maybe have some food close to you if you can.

Blocked nostrils are usually a sign of low CO2. Just keep doing it until symptoms get better, it usually happens pretty quickly. If it's working, you'll feel relaxed, your nose will unclog, and your hands and feet will get warm.

Also I know cold showers are unpopular on here, but they strongly reduce serotonin.

 

[nostalgic]

Serotonin clearance is dependent on salt intake, so if you've only been eating carrots/butter/coconut oil/rice for a while, you're probably severely sodium deficient. Just saturate the water with the salt and drink it unless your symptoms flare up severely. I've taken a tablespoon of salt in one sitting with no negative symptoms, just a very noticeable decrease in serotonergic symptoms. Don't think baking soda will increase serotonin, but if you're worried about it, salt should be pretty similar, so maybe just try that first. Drinking a salt solution will most likely make you hungry b/c of serotonin clearance so maybe have some food close to you if you can.

Blocked nostrils are usually a sign of low CO2. Just keep doing it until symptoms get better, it usually happens pretty quickly. If it's working, you'll feel relaxed, your nose will unclog, and your hands and feet will get warm.

Also I know cold showers are unpopular on here, but they strongly reduce serotonin.

I ingested a lot of salt before but excluded it today due to my gastritis but I'll definitely use a decent amount tomorrow. I'll take it before eating my breakfast tomorrow.

What do you think about the quote I used: "The Buteyko breathing technique has the most effective system of lifestyle changes for maximum body-oxygen levels 24/7."

Won't that make my serotonin increase in the long run then?

 

[Travis]

You try increasing the methylation rate of serotonin ⟶ melatonin. Folic acid has been shown to do this,* and extra darkness should help as well.

* Fournier, Isabelle, et al. "Folate deficiency alters melatonin secretion in rats." The Journal of nutrition 132.9 (2002): 2781-2784.