Unable To Stop My Extreme Serotonin Toxicity

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nostalgic

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There are few things posted here about famotidine (Pepcid) resolving serotonin syndrome. Maybe Pepcid and a little aspirin would help, and some diphenhydramine (Benadryl) if they cause any histamine issues
Pepcid maybe is worth a shot. Does anyone else recommend it?
 

Amazoniac

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Would you recommend me to try fish with fat then?
No, I recommend you to pay attention to cravings and adjust as needed. If you decide to try to supplement the fat-solubles later on, personally I would opt for a very conservative approach first and supplement them together but having them isolated so that you can adjust the amounts that you need.
 

theLaw

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DuggaDugga

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I have another question: you told me to stay away from starches, but wouldn't that mean I had to ingest a lot more tryptophan?

I'll ask my doctor about it but any medication I've tried so far has made me a lot worse, I can't seem to tolerate them at all.

Dietary tryptophan is typically going to be from muscle meat or starchy fruits, as far as I know.
You can also liberate tryptophan from your own muscle cells if you induce any sort of stress: physical, fasting/famine, low-carb dieting, anything that increases cortisol and gluconeogenesis.
I don't think starches are necessarily bad, if they're well-cooked and served with saturated fat to aid in their digestion. I think that if you're trying to lower serotonin, which is primarily produced in the gut, avoiding foods that feed gut bacteria should aid in keeping your serotonin down. Foods that are easily digested earlier in the gastrointestinal tract are ideal to prevent this (cheese, ripe fruit, gelatin, etc.). I was simply suggesting that you might benefit by avoiding starches in the short term to allow your thyroid, liver, and GI tract time to heal.
 
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nostalgic

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No, I recommend you to pay attention to cravings and adjust as needed. If you decide to try to supplement the fat-solubles later on, personally I would opt for a very conservative approach first and supplement them together but having them isolated so that you can adjust the amounts that you need.
If I should stay away from carbs, then there's only fat and proteins left. And I need amino acids the most, I can get plenty of calories from fat if need be. I'm sorry if I don't understand what you mean, this disaster has made me stupid. I don't know what I could possibly eat.
 

Amazoniac

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If I should stay away from carbs, then there's only fat and proteins left. And I need amino acids the most, I can get plenty of calories from fat if need be. I'm sorry if I don't understand what you mean, this disaster has made me stupid. I don't know what I could possibly eat.
No, I didn't quote that to shy you away from carbs. It's just that meals are better when balanced.

Most members are still trying to improve some aspect of health. If you feel confused, some of us are way more than you. So please question everything that is suggested, we're all learning. Paying attention to cravings and responses is your best bet in my opinion.
With that said, the reason why I mentioned the fat-soluble vitamins is that they usually help to normalize intestinal function, mineral metabolism and hormones.
 
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nostalgic

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Ray Peat Potato Protein Soup (RPPPS)

Ray claims that even people with severe digestive issues can handle the starch-free juice, and it's basically all natural amino acids.

Might also consider doing 4T of activated charcoal a couple of times spaced out a few days to get rid of any problem bacteria, and adding carrot salad each and every day to keep the gut sterile.

Coconut Oil + Vinegar = Potent Antibiotic

One more option:

Coconut Oil "completely Abolished Responses To Endotoxin"

Unfortunately the recipe is incomplete on that page due to removed pictures. Do you mind telling me how to make it? I assume I need to use a juicer.
 

theLaw

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Unfortunately the recipe is incomplete on that page due to removed pictures. Do you mind telling me how to make it? I assume I need to use a juicer.

Sure.

-Just juice some potatoes (preferably low starch like new or white potatoes) through a standard juicer.

-Then let the juice sit out (or in fridge) for an hour to let the remaining starch settle to the bottom.

-Then cook the remaining juice + equal amounts water for 45min on medium heat


You'll be left with a small (4-8 ounces) of juice to drink or add to a soup from 5lb of potatoes. Doesn't taste great, but highly effective.

There's also a potato juice scramble that Peat mentioned during a call-in show:

I Made Potato Juice "scramble" And It Was Good

 
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nostalgic

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Dietary tryptophan is typically going to be from muscle meat or starchy fruits, as far as I know.
You can also liberate tryptophan from your own muscle cells if you induce any sort of stress: physical, fasting/famine, low-carb dieting, anything that increases cortisol and gluconeogenesis.
I don't think starches are necessarily bad, if they're well-cooked and served with saturated fat to aid in their digestion. I think that if you're trying to lower serotonin, which is primarily produced in the gut, avoiding foods that feed gut bacteria should aid in keeping your serotonin down. Foods that are easily digested earlier in the gastrointestinal tract are ideal to prevent this (cheese, ripe fruit, gelatin, etc.). I was simply suggesting that you might benefit by avoiding starches in the short term to allow your thyroid, liver, and GI tract time to heal.

Hydrolysed collagen gave me insane headaches after a couple of days, but maybe that's due to the endotoxins? So if I were to eat a lot of coconut oil each day, would that possibly enable me to tolerate collagen? Not sure if my stomach would tolerate coconut oil now though.

Do you think that overcooked carrots and having coconut oil with hydrolysed collagen afterwards could work?

No, I didn't quote that to shy you away from carbs. It's just that meals are better when balanced.

Most members are still trying to improve some aspect of health. If you feel confused, some of us are way more than you. So please question everything that is suggested, we're all learning. Paying attention to cravings and responses is your best bet in my opinion.
With that said, the reason why I mentioned the fat-soluble vitamins is that they're usually able to normalize intestinal function.
I just don't see how I'm to tolerate tryptophan in big concentrations. What do you think about what I asked above: cooked carrots with coconut oil and hydrolysed collagen, could that work?
 
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nostalgic

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Do you think that works for any receptors? Since I can't tolerate the multivitamin I took, should I try one without any additives and add magnesiumchloride and potassium chloride? If I understand it correctly. Also what test is the person referring to?

I really appreciate all the time and effort you guys put into this, it means the world to me when even doctors can't help.
 
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nostalgic

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Sure.

-Just juice some potatoes (preferably low starch like new or white potatoes) through a standard juicer.

-Then let the juice sit out (or in fridge) for an hour to let the remaining starch settle to the bottom.

-Then cook the remaining juice + equal amounts water for 45min on medium heat


You'll be left with a small (4-8 ounces) of juice to drink or add to a soup from 5lb of potatoes. Doesn't taste great, but highly effective.

There's also a potato juice scramble that Peat mentioned during a call-in show:

I Made Potato Juice "scramble" And It Was Good


Thanks a bunch. I don't mind if it tastes awful.

So I scoop out the juice and leave the starch on the bottom then I guess. Maybe my serotonin won't be increased if I don't eat any starch along with the amino acid juice?
 

theLaw

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Thanks a bunch. I don't mind if it tastes awful.

So I scoop out the juice and leave the starch on the bottom then I guess. Maybe my serotonin won't be increased if I don't eat any starch along with the amino acid juice?

from the RPEE:
The gut makes 95% of serotonin, which is the main promoter of stress hormones, inflammation, pain, and anxiety.
For people with really sensitive intestines or bad bacteria, starch should be zero.
 
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nostalgic

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from the RPEE:
Cheers. I'll have to get my hands on a juicer then.

e: is the starch in carrots acceptable? Or should I stay away from starchy vegetables as well?

That would leave me with having to eat more hard digestible vegetables like cauliflower and broccoli, or do you have any good suggestion for an easily digestible vegetable without any starch?
 
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DuggaDugga

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Hydrolysed collagen gave me insane headaches after a couple of days, but maybe that's due to the endotoxins? So if I were to eat a lot of coconut oil each day, would that possibly enable me to tolerate collagen? Not sure if my stomach would tolerate coconut oil now though.

Do you think that overcooked carrots and having coconut oil with hydrolysed collagen afterwards could work?


I just don't see how I'm to tolerate tryptophan in big concentrations. What do you think about what I asked above: cooked carrots with coconut oil and hydrolysed collagen, could that work?

Regarding the hydrolyzed collagen. I would suspect it absorbs relatively easily, so my guess is it's not related to endotoxins. With protein in general, an important consideration is whether you're consuming it along with carbohydrates. Most people are not aware of it, but protein causes a release in insulin and drop in blood sugar. Insulin secretion in response to protein ingestion.
If you're eating protein without carbohydrate, that means you will release cortisol in order to propagate gluconeogenesis to satisfy the secreted insulin. I always try to eat some sort of carbohydrate, preferably sucrose/fructose to prevent the need for this. You can use collagen, orange juice, and sugar to make a really simple gelatin snack that handles this wonderfully- tastes good too!
One more thing regarding protein is that it is high in phosphate. You should try to consume a good amount of calcium at approximately the same time to balance your calcium:phosphate ratio and down-regulate production of parathyroid hormone. Good calcium sources are of course dairy products and well-cooked greens. I make my own egg shell calcium and have a teaspoon with phosphate meals for a little extra protection. I notice almost immediate increases in respiration.

I don't cook my carrots because I actually want them to go relatively undigested to maximize their antiseptic effect. According to Ray -- I'll admit I haven't independently researched this -- beta carotene should actually be avoided as it can be anti-thyroid. Carrots in their raw form will be less likely to be digested, limiting the beta carotene absorption. Vitamin A is best consumed in the form of retinol. Here's a good summary of Ray's opinion, which I'm basically just echoing:
Carotenemia & Hypothyroidism – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
I wouldn't conflate raw carrots with other starchy vegetables, since most other starchy vegetables won't have the antiseptic properties of the raw carrot.
 
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nostalgic

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Regarding the hydrolyzed collagen. I would suspect it absorbs relatively easily, so my guess is it's not related to endotoxins. With protein in general, an important consideration is whether you're consuming it along with carbohydrates. Most people are not aware of it, but protein causes a release in insulin and drop in blood sugar. Insulin secretion in response to protein ingestion.
If you're eating protein without carbohydrate, that means you will release cortisol in order to propagate gluconeogenesis to satisfy the secreted insulin. I always try to eat some sort of carbohydrate, preferably sucrose/fructose to prevent the need for this. You can use collagen, orange juice, and sugar to make a really simple gelatin snack that handles this wonderfully- tastes good too!
One more thing regarding protein is that it is high in phosphate. You should try to consume a good amount of calcium at approximately the same time to balance your calcium:phosphate ratio and down-regulate production of parathyroid hormone. Good calcium sources are of course dairy products and well-cooked greens. I make my own egg shell calcium and have a teaspoon with phosphate meals for a little extra protection. I notice almost immediate increases in respiration.

I don't cook my carrots because I actually want them to go relatively undigested to maximize their antiseptic effect. According to Ray -- I'll admit I haven't independently researched this -- beta carotene should actually be avoided as it can be anti-thyroid. Carrots in their raw form will be less likely to be digested, limiting the beta carotene absorption. Vitamin A is best consumed in the form of retinol. Here's a good summary of Ray's opinion, which I'm basically just echoing:
Carotenemia & Hypothyroidism – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
I wouldn't conflate raw carrots with other starchy vegetables, since most other starchy vegetables won't have the antiseptic properties of the raw carrot.
I'll try taking the collagen with an apple or two instead then - I used to take it on an empty stomach; orange juice could be bad for my gastritis unfortunately. Not sure if sugar would be good or not since I suffer from IBS too.

Interesting about the egg shell calcium, I had no idea that was possible. I'll look into it if the headaches from the collagen doesn't improve with apples. I try to stay away from anything high in tryptophan so dairy is out of the question I think, ain't I too sensitive atm?

I'm really interested in what vegetables would fit best in my case. I'll try steamed carrots tomorrow, that low amount of starch hopefully is okay. I'm also a bit hesitant how the stomach would react to raw carrots, and what about the nutrients?
 

DuggaDugga

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I'll try taking the collagen with an apple or two instead then - I used to take it on an empty stomach; orange juice could be bad for my gastritis unfortunately. Not sure if sugar would be good or not since I suffer from IBS too.

Interesting about the egg shell calcium, I had no idea that was possible. I'll look into it if the headaches from the collagen doesn't improve with apples. I try to stay away from anything high in tryptophan so dairy is out of the question I think, ain't I too sensitive atm?

I'm really interested in what vegetables would fit best in my case. I'll try steamed carrots tomorrow, that low amount of starch hopefully is okay. I'm also a bit hesitant how the stomach would react to raw carrots, and what about the nutrients?

I never personally had any issue with OJ. It's so easily digested I wouldn't expect it to irritate the gut like insoluble fibers and seed storage enzymes. I could be wrong though.
As far as I'm aware, milk has as much glycine as tryptophan. I don't get the "meat sweats" like I do from a hunk of steak. If you're having a tough time with dairy it's probably due to down-regulation of the lactase enzyme. Starting with small amounts might be the way to go until you're able to re-adapt (assuming you've been non-dairy for along time). Personally I drink up to a liter a day or so of grass-fed milk, and it does wonders for me.
Leafy greens (well-cooked) are the best since they're a good source of calcium and magnesium. I'd avoid goiterogenic vegetables (brussel sprouts, brocolli, kale, etc.) until they're really well cooked and assuming you're not hypothyroid. A well-cooked potato once a week and garnishes like pickled onions and tomatoes are the only other vegetables I bother with.
 
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nostalgic

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I never personally had any issue with OJ. It's so easily digested I wouldn't expect it to irritate the gut like insoluble fibers and seed storage enzymes. I could be wrong though.
As far as I'm aware, milk has as much glycine as tryptophan. I don't get the "meat sweats" like I do from a hunk of steak. If you're having a tough time with dairy it's probably due to down-regulation of the lactase enzyme. Starting with small amounts might be the way to go until you're able to re-adapt (assuming you've been non-dairy for along time). Personally I drink up to a liter a day or so of grass-fed milk, and it does wonders for me.
Leafy greens (well-cooked) are the best since they're a good source of calcium and magnesium. I'd avoid goiterogenic vegetables (brussel sprouts, brocolli, kale, etc.) until they're really well cooked and assuming you're not hypothyroid. A well-cooked potato once a week and garnishes like pickled onions and tomatoes are the only other vegetables I bother with.
So you think I could tolerate milk, even though it's high in tryptophan?I'm clueless about these things so I have to ask.

Thanks for the leafy greens suggestion, I have to check what those are.

e: I'll pick up some frozen spinach and kale.
 
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