UK Guy - I'm Afraid Of Eating Raw Meat - Want To Eat Raw Lamb Liver

[funnymeat]

Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate the help! As I said I am pretty new to this. I assumed that the majority of you eat raw meat actually. It looks like I was wrong. I am going to buy some and cook it. I'm not going to risk eating raw at the moment.

 

[SOMO]

Raw Meat is LESS BIOAVAILABLE than cooked meat.

If one genuinely believes meat is a highly nutrient-dense food (Veganism is totally compatible with good nutrition too) with, why consume it in a way that will reduce how much of that nutrition you absorb?

 

[tara]

Parasites

+1
There's a risk.
Being organic an grass-fed doesn't eliminate the risk.
You might be lucky you might not.

Isn't freezing for 2 weeks meant to kill parasites? Worth double checking so don't quote me

I think you might be right, but you have to freeze it pretty cold, and I can't remember the temperature. Not guaranteed in all regular household freezers.

And til this day many cultures eat popular raw meat dishes around the world.

True. Also many of those cultures have regular anti-parasite practices, and I've heard surprise at westerners not regularly using such. And some people probably do have parasite infections that are causing health issues.

If someone is that concerned, they can soak their liver in raw milk for 24 hours or so. The beneficial bacteria in the raw milk will probably help populate the liver surface where most of the bacteria would be anyway.

I don't think soaking in milk helps against flukes etc.

I personally think raw meat digests better and that the natural bacteria on it aids in digestion. After having been raw paleo for years after being vegan before that, and going to Ray Peats work and eating cooked meat again, I have noticed that cooked meat makes me feel different over the long run. Raw meat digests better for me by far. And I also crave it. Cooked meat doesn't taste all that good to me. Not worried about dying from raw meat, personally, as someone who has consumed it for many years regularly without any problems. I think that is largely overblown due to mass factory farmed low quality meat.

I quote believe that there could be benefits to eating raw meat too.
So then it's a risk/benefit choice.
One the one hand, small chance of major problem with parasites + better nutritional value of food + easier digestion.
On the other hand, large chance of slight degradation in quality of nourishment by cooking.
Source can affect the balance.

It's like lots of health choices, including drinking water treatments, vaccinations, etc.

Personally, I usually fry liver quickly, so it's not overcooked - still moist inside. Overcooking makes it dry and less palatable to me.

 

[Mountain]

I feed my dogs a raw meat diet. Included are some veggies, raw chicken necks, and organ meat, liver included.

Don't know if this means much but they will eat hearts and gizzards raw but NEVER raw liver....same with the cats.

My cats, dogs and chickens all love to eat raw liver - so it probably doesn't mean much

Just do what peat says and drink coffee with it to stop iron absorption

I don't think coffee really does much for heme iron, but it does seem to strongly inhibit zinc absorption

Raw Meat is LESS BIOAVAILABLE than cooked meat.

If one genuinely believes meat is a highly nutrient-dense food (Veganism is totally compatible with good nutrition too) with, why consume it in a way that will reduce how much of that nutrition you absorb?

How is raw meat less bioavailable? Meat like liver and oysters are far and away the most nutrient dense foods for a lot of nutrients and veganism is a joke diet, but that's another conversation

 

[SOMO]

My cats, dogs and chickens all love to eat raw liver - so it probably doesn't mean much

I don't think coffee really does much for heme iron, but it does seem to strongly inhibit zinc absorption

How is raw meat less bioavailable? Meat like liver and oysters are far and away the most nutrient dense foods for a lot of nutrients and veganism is a joke diet, but that's another conversation

Raw meat is less bioavailable because it is less digestible.
100% of protein consumed is not digested in a well-functioning gut and dyspepsia reduces that further.

Same with raw oysters, but they're so tiny and easy to chew. But still, many "fancy" restaurants only have Oysters Rockefeller on their menu (cooked oysters.) There is a common side effect of consuming eggs - smelly farts, which some people get. It doesn't seem to be related to aminos since people supplement with Cysteine or SaME and don't get this effect.

Amount and fate of egg protein escaping assimilation in the small intestine of humans. - PubMed - NCBI
13C-egg white breath test: a non-invasive test of pancreatic trypsin activity in the small intestine. - PubMed - NCBI
The digestion and absorption of protein by normal man
Effect of peptide chain length on amino acid and nitrogen absorption from two lactalbumin hydrolysates in the normal human jejunum. - PubMed - NCBI (hydrosylate means protein was processed, i.e. cooked)
Jejunal absorption of an amino acid mixture simulating casein and an enzymic hydrolysate of casein prepared for oral administration to normal adults. - PubMed - NCBI (Leaky gut model, shows protein absorption is negatively affected)
The absorption of 131I-labelled serum and colostral proteins from the gut of the young calf (baby cows, not humans, but that is a remarkably low bioavailability for a growing animal)
Protein fermentation in the gut; implications for intestinal dysfunction in humans, pigs, and poultry. - PubMed - NCBI (protein fermentation by HUMAN related to gut health.)

Baby formula studies show great variability in protein/nutrient absorption.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3010087/

Protein and fat form a matrix in and around meat. If you don't chew meat, it will come out the other end only slightly changed. Worse yet, if you don't cook your meat it will get fermented by bacteria, possibly into endotoxin, but definitely into other toxic compounds like indoles or p-cresol, which is the same argument Ray Peat uses to discourage people from eating too much starch or fiber. The nutrition is inside this protein-fat matrix, which you want to break down BEFORE it reaches the large intestine (protein digestion happens in the stomach and small intestine, not just stomach.)

Altered gut microbiome might affect the integrity of the intestinal barrier leading to facilitated blood translocation of bacteria and uremic toxins[15]. In this context, the intestinal barrier function has not yet been carefully studied. However, recent studies have demonstrated marked disintegration of the colonic epithelial barrier structure and significant alteration of the colonic bacterial flora in humans and animals with advanced CKD[171]. The fact that circulating lipopolysaccharides (LPS) levels and bacteria-derived uremic retention solutes (indoxyl sulfate, p-cresol, and trimethylamine n-oxide) increase with CKD stages suggests a link between the intestinal barrier and renal dysfunction[177]. Many uremic toxins are derived from gut microbes.

Mainstream says "too much protein hurts your kidneys." But that's obviously not the case unless you have kidney damage. OR the kidney damage is FROM too much endotoxin/uremic toxins and consuming more protein will only produce more of these "uremic solutes."
One way to reduce these toxins? COOK YOUR MEAT.


Except RP never had to say "cook your meat" because I presume he knows ALMOST EVERYONE UNIVERSALLY (>99%) cook their meat.

 

[aquaman]

My cats, dogs and chickens all love to eat raw liver - so it probably doesn't mean much



I don't think coffee really does much for heme iron, but it does seem to strongly inhibit zinc absorption



How is raw meat less bioavailable? Meat like liver and oysters are far and away the most nutrient dense foods for a lot of nutrients and veganism is a joke diet, but that's another conversation

Soak it in milk for 20-30 mins before cooking it. Takes away a lot of the nasty taste of liver (not sure how this works). Also if you can't handle the taste, make meatballs out of it with other meat and lots of green herbs added (parsley, basil, cilantro etc). Meatballs taste amazing, I use lamb and beef mince in 1/3rd ratios.

 

[danishispsychic]

Depends on the parasites. Some are far more harmful than others. Some believe that if you have a strong enough immue system/gut flora, it won't be an issue and may be good. There is some evidence that seems to indicate that having some parasites may be good for you. If it it's locally sourced, fresh and grass fed/organic, the chances of getting something really bad that kills you is very low. Many people have been eating raw liver around the world for a long time. And til this day many cultures eat popular raw meat dishes around the world. If someone is that concerned, they can soak their liver in raw milk for 24 hours or so. The beneficial bacteria in the raw milk will probably help populate the liver surface where most of the bacteria would be anyway. But I don't buy the all bacteria is bad hypothesis and think the bacteria on raw meat can be beneficial. People do this anyway to get rid of the liver taste to make it more 'palatable.'

well- all you have to do is get a major parasite infection

Depends on the parasites. Some are far more harmful than others. Some believe that if you have a strong enough immue system/gut flora, it won't be an issue and may be good. There is some evidence that seems to indicate that having some parasites may be good for you. If it it's locally sourced, fresh and grass fed/organic, the chances of getting something really bad that kills you is very low. Many people have been eating raw liver around the world for a long time. And til this day many cultures eat popular raw meat dishes around the world. If someone is that concerned, they can soak their liver in raw milk for 24 hours or so. The beneficial bacteria in the raw milk will probably help populate the liver surface where most of the bacteria would be anyway. But I don't buy the all bacteria is bad hypothesis and think the bacteria on raw meat can be beneficial. People do this anyway to get rid of the liver taste to make it more 'palatable.'

Well , obvi you have never had a parasitic infection that took YEARS to clear and almost killed you. :)

 

[Mountain]

Raw meat is less bioavailable because it is less digestible.
100% of protein consumed is not digested in a well-functioning gut and dyspepsia reduces that further.

Same with raw oysters, but they're so tiny and easy to chew. But still, many "fancy" restaurants only have Oysters Rockefeller on their menu (cooked oysters.) There is a common side effect of consuming eggs - smelly farts, which some people get. It doesn't seem to be related to aminos since people supplement with Cysteine or SaME and don't get this effect.

Amount and fate of egg protein escaping assimilation in the small intestine of humans. - PubMed - NCBI
13C-egg white breath test: a non-invasive test of pancreatic trypsin activity in the small intestine. - PubMed - NCBI
The digestion and absorption of protein by normal man
Effect of peptide chain length on amino acid and nitrogen absorption from two lactalbumin hydrolysates in the normal human jejunum. - PubMed - NCBI (hydrosylate means protein was processed, i.e. cooked)
Jejunal absorption of an amino acid mixture simulating casein and an enzymic hydrolysate of casein prepared for oral administration to normal adults. - PubMed - NCBI (Leaky gut model, shows protein absorption is negatively affected)
The absorption of 131I-labelled serum and colostral proteins from the gut of the young calf (baby cows, not humans, but that is a remarkably low bioavailability for a growing animal)
Protein fermentation in the gut; implications for intestinal dysfunction in humans, pigs, and poultry. - PubMed - NCBI (protein fermentation by HUMAN related to gut health.)

Baby formula studies show great variability in protein/nutrient absorption.
Differential Growth Patterns Among Healthy Infants Fed Protein Hydrolysate or Cow-Milk Formulas

Protein and fat form a matrix in and around meat. If you don't chew meat, it will come out the other end only slightly changed. Worse yet, if you don't cook your meat it will get fermented by bacteria, possibly into endotoxin, but definitely into other toxic compounds like indoles or p-cresol, which is the same argument Ray Peat uses to discourage people from eating too much starch or fiber. The nutrition is inside this protein-fat matrix, which you want to break down BEFORE it reaches the large intestine (protein digestion happens in the stomach and small intestine, not just stomach.)



Mainstream says "too much protein hurts your kidneys." But that's obviously not the case unless you have kidney damage. OR the kidney damage is FROM too much endotoxin/uremic toxins and consuming more protein will only produce more of these "uremic solutes."
One way to reduce these toxins? COOK YOUR MEAT.


Except RP never had to say "cook your meat" because I presume he knows ALMOST EVERYONE UNIVERSALLY (>99%) cook their meat.

I'll give these a read but it doesn't really look like many relate to meat. Humans can digest unchewed, uncooked small bones so I doubt our digestion is as bad as you think. Also as an anecdote, I only ever get bad farts from eating eggs if they're cooked and combined with something fibrous in the same meal. Cracking raw eggs into a glass then chewing them up in my mouth has never given me any digestion problems.

 

[tara]

Anyway you can just sear the outside and eat it medium rare, then at least your risk of food poisoning for next to nil.

I think this massively reduces the risk of bacterial poisoning, because the bacteria are most likely to proliferate on the outside surface. Don't know that it necessarily kills off larger parasites in the tissue itself - depends how hot it gets right through.

Also if you can't handle the taste, make meatballs out of it with other meat and lots of green herbs added (parsley, basil, cilantro etc). Meatballs taste amazing, I use lamb and beef mince in 1/3rd ratios.

Sounds delicious. Might try that, with onions too. :)

 

[shepherdgirl]

Yes raw liver is a risk, but I think there is something beneficial in raw liver - just check out Pottenger's Cocktail...

 

[fradon]

Hi there,

I am very new to all of this. I am interested in eating raw Lamb liver but i'm scared. I've read stories where people have become paralysed because of eating meat that wasn't cooked enough. I am from the UK and plan on buying some raw lamb liver from an organic website called 'Abel and Cole'. Here is the liver (not sure if i can post links):

Lamb Liver, Organic (300g) | Abel & Cole

The lamb liver is organic and grass fed. Would it be alright to eat raw? Maybe I should just eat a tiny bit of it raw to begin with and cook the rest?

I'm just terrified of becoming paralysed or being put into a coma! Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks alot.

just freeze below zero for something like 20 days it is suppose to kill and parasites and worms.

 

[CrystalClear]

In my experience, it is best to cook the liver.