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UK government debate re covid vaccine discrimination

ofthewild

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May 23, 2021
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I’ve been lurking on this forum for nearly a year now, initially for Peat nutrition discussion but increasingly to keep me grounded, sane and up-to-speed on discussions re the current global situation.

I live in Scotland. While England has put the vaccine passport on hold for now, covid vaccines are soon to be required for access to live music, clubs etc here (from next weekend, I believe).

Health and well-being are a priority of mine. I enjoy listening to my body, trusting the incredible power it naturally holds and making well informed decisions re how I treat it and how to navigate the world. I like to use my intuition/gut instinct on top of trying to understand research in order to make decisions. As it currently stands, the idea of taking a covid vaccine doesn’t sit right with me on both a gut level and based on the research (or lack there of) I’ve tried my best to understand.

However, I am aware that I am incredibly anti-authoritarian by nature and aware of the power of cognitive dissonance. While I have some friends and family members who share my beliefs, I’m more often than not the only (covid) unvaccinated person in the room and feel a lot of negative energy directed towards me because of it.

Earlier this week the UK parliament debated “Outlaw discrimination against those who do not get a Covid-19 vaccination’’, here is the transcript:


What baffles me is the utter conviction behind the belief that the vaccines are nothing but a good thing. E.g...

‘The data speaks for itself: the majority of those hospitalised and dying from covid-19 have not been fully vaccinated. It is clear that by getting vaccinated, we are protecting not only ourselves but others, and are playing our part in bringing an end to this pandemic.......Vaccines truly are a marvel of modern medicine......
These miraculous vaccines must pass extremely rigorous testing before they are licensed for use in the United Kingdom. According to the Oxford Vaccine Group, the following are just some of the stages that a vaccine has to go through before use: a literature review to look at what has been done before; a theoretical development or innovation, coming up with a new idea or varying an existing one; and laboratory testing and development, involving in vitro testing using individual cells and in vivo testing, which often uses mice. A vaccine must then go through three stages of human trials before licensing and reviews, and then continue to be monitored after their approval for wider use to take note of any new developments.....Covid 19 vaccines have been no different’’

And here is the covid passport debate from earlier this month: Covid Vaccine Passports - Wednesday 8 September 2021 - Hansard - UK Parliament

Although my gut instinct rarely fails me, I’m starting to wonder if I am falling victim to cognitive dissonance and failing to look at data correctly.

Can anyone point me in the direction of studies/data/evidence that backs up what these politicians are claiming? I’m quick to digest evidence that supports my beliefs but perhaps I truly am misinformed.

Any thoughts?
 

ofthewild

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May 23, 2021
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My post is probably too long before I get to the point: Can anyone point me in the direction of studies/data/evidence that backs up what these politicians are claiming (that the vaccines are saving lives)?
 

Seven

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Sep 20, 2020
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Hi ofthewild, I think it will be hard to find such evidence because the politicians' claims are beliefs and propaganda resulting from broader propaganda and corruption, and were likely written by the pharmaceutical industry. There is just too much wrong with how this is playing out for there to be any legitimacy to it.

Spend 40 minutes and listen to the video interview between Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and David E. Martin, Ph.D. (embedded in the article below) to get a good understanding of what is really going on.

You're not going crazy but you will if you waste time trying to convince the covid cult, whether they are family or not.

 

Pina

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Pina

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how do you know
I don't have evidence. Nor did I have evidence when I first proposed that the 'unvaccinated' will be blamed earlier this year
 

CreakyJoints

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Mar 30, 2020
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217
To be honest, I find it bizarre that the default position of a self-described anti-authoritarian should be to believe that our politicians always tell the truth.

There are numerous posts here explaining at length how all of the statistics being used are deliberately misrepresented and manipulated to push a particular agenda - if you've missed all of those in your year of lurking I suggest you simply look around some of the relevant sub-forums.

All the best in your journey, and welcome!
 

Makrosky

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Oct 5, 2014
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I am with Pina on this. They will make up everything to mask the farce, which includes :

- Blaming it on the flu. They are already preparing the narrative*

- Blame it on new variants

- Blame it on the unvaccinated

- Cook the PCR cycles to show what they want. Do them only to unvaxxed. Or with different cycle count.

They control everything, they can create the narrative they want.

*Former FDA chief predicts flu season will be a ‘whopper’
 

Makrosky

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I was reading this 30 mins ago in the bus and literally laughing out loud.

“We haven’t seen a flu season last year — we’re in for a whopper because we haven’t put immunity into the population in at least one and maybe now two years. When the flu does come back, and it will come back, it’s going to come back very aggressively,” he said.

“And if there’s a mismatch between the flu vaccine and the circulating strain, it could be very bad. And then you’re going to have COVID on top of that, so businesses are going to have to do things differently,” he continued.
 

Pina

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I was reading this 30 mins ago in the bus and literally laughing out loud.

“We haven’t seen a flu season last year — we’re in for a whopper because we haven’t put immunity into the population in at least one and maybe now two years. When the flu does come back, and it will come back, it’s going to come back very aggressively,” he said.

“And if there’s a mismatch between the flu vaccine and the circulating strain, it could be very bad. And then you’re going to have COVID on top of that, so businesses are going to have to do things differently,” he continued.
This is the perfect crime! The only hope is autopsy but the government will make sure that doesn't happen
 

Makrosky

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@ofthewild thanks for your post. I enjoyed reading it because it is super honest. So regarding your question my opinion is : we can't. Nobody knows about the numbers. Neither side. Because to interpret data, you need many layers that are flawed :
- The data itself. Different PCR cycle counts. Deads with covid or because of covid. Etc. It is all messed up since the basr layer.

- Then TRULY having the knowledge in biostatistics science to analyze it, which I can tell you it is not easy at all, 99% of the people doesn't have it even doctors and PhDs.

- Then interpret it which is an extra layer subject to all kind of biases and agendas.

Basically you can relate variables and cook numbers and plot graphs in ways to say what you want to say. And this goes on both sides, the covid mafia and the people who thinks this is a plandemic. Who can you trust? How do you know which one says the truth?

It is impossible.

Well... you have to do it by knowing about how things go in the world, by looking for inconsistencies in the official theory, by looking at how have they been lying since the beginning, by following the money path, by gut feeling also. There are countries with around 50% of vaxx adoption where there are doses for everybody. Or at least it was 50% until they started to corner unvaxxeda. 1 out of 2 people is stupid? I don't think so.

Look for instance my previous post about the flu. It is so ridiculous and so prepared that I don't need to see any numbers.

But I understand you.
 

Makrosky

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Oct 5, 2014
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@ofthewild it is kind of reading between the lines. In reality this is not new. It happened with the swine flu and the whatever flu where they sold milioms of doses of the vax that ended up in trash.

It is reading how social psychologists have describe the gradual construction of the enemy to use them as a symbolic victim, as we are seeing it these days with the unvaxxed. Etc.

It is reading about bigpharma criminal practices.

etc... and then you put the pieces together.

But data? Forget about it.
 

Callmestar

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Apr 3, 2019
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I'm also in the UK, although in England and as you say the implementation of vaccine passports has been paused here. I don't doubt for a second they will try and implement them here later.

Is there any resistance in Scotland, I've seen absolutely nothing in the way of protests from up there? All I'll say is this needs to be stopped, and peaceful protest doesn't work...

On the point of the vaccine, I fully believe you are right in your current stance. I too haven't taken it and never will.
 

Doc Sandoz

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Jun 21, 2020
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Hi ofthewild, I think it will be hard to find such evidence because the politicians' claims are beliefs and propaganda resulting from broader propaganda and corruption, and were likely written by the pharmaceutical industry. There is just too much wrong with how this is playing out for there to be any legitimacy to it.

Spend 40 minutes and listen to the video interview between Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and David E. Martin, Ph.D. (embedded in the article below) to get a good understanding of what is really going on.

You're not going crazy but you will if you waste time trying to convince the covid cult, whether they are family or not.

Whenever I get lost in the weeds of info and disinfo on the vid, I always come back to this list of facts: 18 Reasons I Won't Be Getting a Covid Vaccine
 

Seven

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Sep 20, 2020
Messages
178
Whenever I get lost in the weeds of info and disinfo on the vid, I always come back to this list of facts: 18 Reasons I Won't Be Getting a Covid Vaccine

Yeah, I had read that page months ago but it is well worth reading again from time to time. The author made a compelling case in an easy-going style. Thanks for posting it again, Doc. Hopefully others will read it, especially our friends here who are feeling overwhelmed by all that is going on and looking for guidance.
 

Doc Sandoz

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Jun 21, 2020
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Yeah, I had read that page months ago but it is well worth reading again from time to time. The author made a compelling case in an easy-going style. Thanks for posting it again, Doc. Hopefully others will read it, especially our friends here who are feeling overwhelmed by all that is going on and looking for guidance.
Sure thing Seven. This article is what I use to say to people not on this forum why the vaxx is a bad idea.
 

ofthewild

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May 23, 2021
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My bad for extremely slow response. I’m coming out of my lurker-shell very slowly.

Believe me, my default position is very far from trusting the voices of these politicians. I’m just perplexed by people who do... what’s the most worrying is people I know who usually don’t trust politicians, and usually do question things, but when it comes to the covid narrative are lapping it all up and looking at me like I’m a moron for challenging it.

I suppose it’s just that I’m still in a bit of a state of disbelief that this is happening, and life would be easier if I was proved wrong. I just can’t see any convincing evidence anywhere. It seems like the politicians are plucking statistics out of thin air.
 
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