Tyronene + Tyromix + Pansterone Mixed Results

[managing]

H

Yes I have really weird symptoms, some neurological stuff. I do the carrot salad. Once or twice a week some activated charcoal. Both seem to give me some relief. I will try some of your suggestions, thank you very much!

How are you doing lately @Bart1 ?

 

[Bart1]

H

How are you doing lately @Bart1 ?

Thanks for asking! It is not doing well. But I’m learning from my mistakes here. Hope it’s not too late and that I haven’t screwed up my body too much. I’m now trying to improve my liver and gut. I read a post of haidut which seem to really apply to my situation, see quote below. I first had weight loss when introducing thyroid, I couldn’t handle thyroid (T3 or combination of T4-T3) probably due to liver issue (already had a high RT3). Lost a lot of muscle mass. Then suddenly I gained about 10 kg in a matter of weeks. I think it’s water retention from introducing sugar and having high adrenaline and probably also fat gain. I look pregnant now, with bloating. Also have pretty bad hypoglycemia symptoms with sugar. I had this sometime before, especially after a bad night of sleep. My sleep has worsened a lot the last month. I want to try to improve my liver function, but really confused on what to do; the comment below, aspirin and niacinamide can make things worse?! I thought they would help the liver, but maybe not in my situation? Maybe K2 and caffeine, but to much coffee is not a good idea i guess since i’ so high on stress. So not really sure what I can do now. I don’t take thyroid or pregnonelone atm. I have to try to convince my doctor to give me antibiotics for my gut and I take a carrot salad daily.

So, assuming one keeps a steady dietary supply of sucrose (or some other type of sugar), wouldn't the constant presence of glucose in the blood stream keep insulin chronically elevated too? I have read various, and often contradictory, statements from Peat about the whole blood sugar and insulin thing. Often, he says that it is important to always keep blood glucose up to keep cortisol at bay and metabolism high. Of course, this means insulin would be elevated chronically too. On insulin, Ray sometimes says it is a good hormone responsible for anabolism and keeping tumor growth under control. At other times he has said that elevated insulin is not a good thing. So, I am bit confused about the overall dietary guidelines. Should we try to keep blood sugar elevated all the time but at a certain stable (and reasonable) level, which would imply higher (but stable insulin), or should we do pulse feeds which would temporarily bring insulin up to shuttle the glucose to the muscles and then insulin goes down and the body runs on glycogen from the liver?
I suspect a number of people on the forum struggle with this issue as evidenced by several posts of rapid weight gain, elevated blood glucose and insulin on blood tests and worried doctors making recommendations to cut down on sugar, blood pressure rising in people who did not have blood pressure issues before, etc. Some of these things could be beneficial, but there was a post by one person who said her blood pressure went from 120/80 to 150/90 after adopting the higher sugar diet and after some back and forth with her doctor she decided to quit the Peat diet. Then she reported her blood pressure normalizing after reducing sugar intake. Btw, it is well known in the bodybuilding community that cutting carbs works just like diuretics. I am not an advocate of this, but wouldn't people prone to edema and having thyroid problems get their water-retention problems exacerbated if they increase sugar/carbs intake? I guess that would happen at least initially and the theory is that as their metabolism normalizes they should be able to better utilize glucose and then lose all the excess water. So, the million dollar question is how long does one have to re-feed higher carbs diet (and suppress fatty acid oxidation through the Randle effect) until their insulin sensitivity is restored?
Finally, there have been a number of reports on Peatarian and occasionally on this forum of people experiencing proteinuria (protein in the urine) when increasing sugar intake above 200g daily. If you are eating 80g+ of protein then you probably strive to eat at least as many carbs. Peat has said that this proteinuria is due to people burning PUFA, which makes albumin leak in the urine and show up on the tests but as far as I can tell, these people were actually burning fat before adopting the higher sugar diet and only experienced proteinuria after increasing sugar intake. Of course, they could have had this issue all along and only realized it after switching and measuring their urine but there are several reports of this so I doubt it's a random thing. Somebody also posted a study on thousands of university employees and those who consumes the most sugary drinks reported the highest incidence of proteinuria.
It would be nice if we can get some guidelines on this. Personally, I use caffeine to increase the utilization of sugar and don't really have issues with it, but in theory there should be a way to handle sugar from diet without relying on sugar burning aids like caffeine and/or thyroid. Thyroid does not seem to be a good option for me, and I have tried all kinds of supplementing schedules and dosages. As I have posted on other threads, my experience with sugar only improved after I took serious measures to "normalize" my liver function through caffeine and vitamin K2, BUT my liver enzymes were NORMAL according to the standard lab ranges. If the stats are true and over 80% of people over 30 have some degree of fatty liver, which is the real cause behind type II diabetes, then I think many people adopting the Peat diet will likely experience stress reduction through the lower cortisol, but may end up making their fatty liver worse, especially is supplementing niacinamide and aspirin. Such_Saturation and I posted about this in another thread.
So, my main point is that burning sugar is definitely preferable to burning fat based on both Peat's writings and all the studies I have seen about liver disease being caused by increased lipid peroxidation byproducts, and cirrhosis (in alcoholic rats) being easily and succesfully treated by feeding about 60g-70g of saturated fat like butter or coconut oil for a week, while the rats kept drinking alcohol at the same time! So, on the point of burning sugar I think the question is settled that it is preferable to burning fat.
However, the point is to actually BURN the sugar rather than simply feeding ourselves more of it. For people with sluggish livers, many of whom also take niacinamide and aspirin, this is likely to make the metabolism situation worse by fattening the liver even more, even though admittedly the fat synthesized will be saturated since it is made from sugar. But fatty liver will increase your estrogen no matter how saturated the fat is that you are synthesizing. So, fattening up the liver even more probably won't do much good for metabolism. Another suggestion from Peat would be to increase protein intake to at least 80g a day which should support liver function, lower estrogen and increase conversion of T4 into T3. However, that will likely also not work very well in people with sluggish and fatty livers since underperforming liver will convert a lot of that extra protein into ammonia. Even Peat is clear on this point in one of his articles where he says that "hyperammonemia can be caused by exhaustive exercise or hypothyroidism". This is also evidenced by a number of studies showing that people in their late 30s, 40s, and 50s experience chronic fatigue issues that are greatly helped by giving them ammonia-reducing agents like ornithine or sodium benzoate. And those people consume nowhere near the 80g of protein Peat recommends. So, if they are having ammonia issues imagine how would the people loading up on extra protein would feel.
Which brings us to the point that for many people over the age of 30, simply increasing sugar and/or protein will likely not solve the metabolic issues. Thus, the Peat diet, while the correct way to eat, may not be a solution to the issues of hypothyroidism, but rather a way to avoid the worse option of running on cortisol and adrenalin, which while energizing in the short run will ruin you in the longer run.
Considering the Barnes book "Hypoglycemia: It's not your brain, it's your liver", which I read, it seems that restoring optimal liver function is also a key to improving metabolism. Yes, thyroid function is important too, but I think Peat's recommendation on supplementing thyroid even in the presence of normal thyroid labs may cause issues for a number of people. Charlie, and at least 20 other people have posted on struggling with supplementing thyroid. If they take it, they develop teeth issues, skin issues, anxiety or some other unpleasant symptoms. If they don't take it, their digestion slows down to a crawl or they start getting hypothyroid symptoms like brain fog or muscle issues, etc.
So, if the stats are true and the evidence I have seen is legit, then eating according to the peat guidelines is a great strategy AFTER metabolism is fixed. But if 80% of people over 30 are having liver issues or some other problems with metabolism, then the diet will be certainly supportive, but likely not "curative". And for some people with particularly bad liver problems the situation may end up getting worse in a way due to even more fatty liver issues or higher ammonia levels. Just ask anybody over the age of 40 if they are having trouble maintaining (let alone building) muscle mass.
Then the question becomes, what will aid metabolic recovery, other than blindly supplementing thyroid even in the presence of normal thyroid labs? I guess the answer Peat will give is that one needs to wait at least 4 years and get rid of the PUFA before starting to see solid results. There is some solid evidence in favor of lower PUFA fixing metabolic issues. But I wonder if working on liver health or trying to build more muscle will also help while waiting out the PUFA detox period? Uncoupling agents are probably also key, but they should probably be other than aspirin since it may make fatty liver issues worse for many people if used in the doses needed for mitochondrial uncoupling. Finally, increasing CO2 production or intake somehow will also likely have a key role. Just throwing things out there that seem to be cardinal methods for improving metabolism.
Sorry about the long rant, I just felt like this deserves some attention since a number of threads pop on the forum asking the same questions and I have been thinking about this for some time. If someone knows about Peat's definitive opinion on this issue please share it. Maybe I missed it in his articles. IMHO, after reading pretty much all of his published stuff, reading people's testimonies/complaints, cross-referencing this with studies, and my own experience, I think a number of chicken/egg question still remain.
Anybody care to comment?

 

[managing]

Thanks for asking! It is not doing well. But I’m learning from my mistakes here. Hope it’s not too late and that I haven’t screwed up my body too much. I’m now trying to improve my liver and gut. I read a post of haidut which seem to really apply to my situation, see quote below. I first had weight loss when introducing thyroid, I couldn’t handle thyroid (T3 or combination of T4-T3) probably due to liver issue (already had a high RT3). Lost a lot of muscle mass. Then suddenly I gained about 10 kg in a matter of weeks. I think it’s water retention from introducing sugar and having high adrenaline and probably also fat gain. I look pregnant now, with bloating. Also have pretty bad hypoglycemia symptoms with sugar. I had this sometime before, especially after a bad night of sleep. My sleep has worsened a lot the last month. I want to try to improve my liver function, but really confused on what to do; the comment below, aspirin and niacinamide can make things worse?! I thought they would help the liver, but maybe not in my situation? Maybe K2 and caffeine, but to much coffee is not a good idea i guess since i’ so high on stress. So not really sure what I can do now. I don’t take thyroid or pregnonelone atm. I have to try to convince my doctor to give me antibiotics for my gut and I take a carrot salad daily.

What helped me handle sugar were two of the simplest things.

Stearic acid with each meal. A tsp or so. Balancing against the unavoidable PUFA and, theoretically, healing liver (lots of studies for this) and displacing PUFA so as to improve overall saturation of stored fat.

And magnesium (acetate and glycinate). With each meal.

 

[Satellite]

Hi there,

I'm about three months into peating, still learning everyday and came to the conclusion that I'm very hypothyroid. I first began implementing eating more peatlike, I felt a little bit better but I knew I had to start with thyroid. After a session with an endocrinologist who said there was nothing wrong with me I knew I had to start self medication.

I started with Pansterone 4 drops topically. It improved my libido and energy a lot. I increased to 2x 4 drops a day but then I think a started to get some high cortisol symptoms, some weird cushing like things, a got a bit of a lump on the back of my neck, it feels thick and I got some achy pain under my armpits. I don't feel enlarged glands or anything but these are strange things, although I do remember this feeling from a couple of years ago.

I went back to 4 drops Pansterone and started with Tyronene in the day and Tyromix in the evening. I felt very relaxed on Tyronene and also Tyromix, libido increased even more also better mood. I felt warmer and my heart rate increased a bit. The only thing now is that my sleeping which was already bad went worse. I wake up at night feels like high adrenaline. I take some milk with salt and honey but I still don't have a deep sleek and wake early with stress like symptoms.

So it seems my cortisol problem is getting worse. I was under the impression that T3 should lower cortisol, as wel as pansterone. I increased my calorie intake, I feel I'm on the right path but something is not going well. Can somebody point me in the right direction ?

Hello,

We have similar situations.

Are you genetically hypothyroid?

Or you had a good thyroid that dwindled over time?

If it is genetic, then you will need to rearrange your DNA.

You can’t fit 1000 people in a boat built for 100.

Not without side effects at least.

When you do, it breaks.

But you can rebuild the boat and make it really fast and efficient at moving 100 people.

See what I’m saying?

Sounds like you are dropping cortisol so low yet stimulating your thyroid so high that your body is trying to produce a ton of it to survive - your body thinks it’s starving and is consuming itself to survive.

The stress could be from serotonin also.

Try focusing on PUFA and dopamine first.

So take Mitolipin and Metergoline instead.

Mitolipin will remove PUFA and get your mitochondria working properly, which is more important than thyroid. The cell must function properly for it to process the supplements properly.

Metergoline will block serotonin and boost certain dopamine receptors, control cortisol also, and reduce prolactin - very similar actions of androgens.

Then after going through at least one bottle of each, start slowly adding in thyroid - even add T2

THEN start adding steroids and it will work better and require smaller dosages.

I did the same as you, sort of.

I started with steroids, but it wasn’t ideal and long term use led to lethargy etc. and having to come off every few months is crazy exhausting.

So I reversed it. Healing my mitochondria, healing my thyroid, lowering cortisol and estrogen, and adding bits of androgens goes along way now without all the craziness.

I did tests.

Stop all supplements for a week. Then take only 1 to drop estrogen to almost nothing. See what happens.

Then stop all supplements for a week. Then take only 1 to lower cortisol. See what happens.

Then stop all supplements for a week. Then take only 1 steroid. See what happens.

Then stop and then combine all three etc.

Eventually it becomes apparent that lowering cortisol, estrogen and boosting dopamine are the main objectives.

Over time you start to learn your metabolism and what it can handle as you experiment with different substances to create low C/E and high dopamine.

Hope this helps.
Best of luck.