Tyronene - T3 Solution For Lab/R&D

[ilikecats]

@Fexxx i find the drop of tyronene mostly floats on top of the water. Even if you shake it up before consumption it seems to quickly float back to the top so I think it’s hard to get the dosage right when using a method like that.

 

[ilikecats]

@haidut i also can’t get any everclear that’s higher than 151 proof (higher alcohol contents are illegal in my state). Would a dilution with that even work? Another problem is that it’s very difficult making a dilution if your bottle of tyronene is not brand new... i can’t really know how much I have left. But now I’m just trying to dilute each dose individual dose until I run out.

 

[Wagner83]

@haidut i also can’t get any everclear that’s higher than 151 proof (higher alcohol contents are illegal in my state). Would a dilution with that even work? Another problem is that it’s very difficult making a dilution if your bottle of tyronene is not brand new... i can’t really know how much I have left. But now I’m just trying to dilute each dose individual dose until I run out.

From haidut says you can use isopropyl myristate. It may be obvious but if you count the drops you pour in the new bottle then you know how many mcg there are.

 

[haidut]

@haidut i also can’t get any everclear that’s higher than 151 proof (higher alcohol contents are illegal in my state). Would a dilution with that even work? Another problem is that it’s very difficult making a dilution if your bottle of tyronene is not brand new... i can’t really know how much I have left. But now I’m just trying to dilute each dose individual dose until I run out.

As @Wagner83 said, you can also use IPM, but even 75% ethanol should work. Some people tried 70% rubbing alcohol and apparently it worked too.

 

[ilikecats]

@haidut but I read that rubbing alcohol is not safe for rats to ingest?

 

[haidut]

@haidut My rat used 1 teaspoon of rubbing alcohol to dilute a drop of tyonene. My rat ingested 1/4 a teaspoon of rubbing alcohol to get 2mcg of T3 (a reasonable physiological dose, a dose that won't down regulate thyroid hormone production... i.e. harm someone (which 8mcg is very likely to do... down regulate endogenous thyroid hormone production i.e. harm someone)) and now I'm reading that rubbing alcohol is toxic to rats and not meant for oral consumption. Why would you recommend rubbing alcohol to dilute the product? And youre okay with the fact that your product is completely unusable without a dilution which is actually unsafe for rats on multiple levels? Merely having to open the bottle and be potentially exposed (when its completely unnecessary) to such a massive amount of T3 at one time seems highly undesirable. Im sorry if Im coming off harsh and you seem like a great guy but I feel you really dropped the ball on this one. Especially since the origins from this products inappropriately high dosage (and make no mistake ray does NOT recommend and has never recommended a dosage of T3 any higher than 5mcg at once (and he usually only recommends 1-3mcg of t3 at a time)) seem to come from your desire to compete with a competitors product. I and countless others have experienced the negative effects of taking unphysiological dosages of T3.

The product was made to mimic the BlueSky Peptides product, which has 100mcg T3 per ml. That's what people asked for when I was releasing it. So, this came down to about 8mcg/drop. It was not done on purpose to make it unusable.
As far as the dilution - I always recommended regular ethyl alcohol (ethanol) for dilution. Many people commented that they cannot find ethanol with 70% concentration or higher and asked if rubbing alcohol would work. Yes, it would work for dilution if there is nothing else available. Since it is supposed to be a topical product, the rubbing alcohol should be OK. After all the rubbing alcohol is meant to be an alcohol for skin contact. The toxicity you refer to is in regards to oral exposure or inhalation of vapors, and in bigger amounts (several grams ingestion of pure rubbing alcohol). Topically, you would have to literally bathe yourself in rubbing alcohol to cause issues and the amount of rubbing alcohol even in 8:1 dilution of Tyronene won't even come close to a typical exposure of rubbing alcohol by somebody who is treating say open wounds.
There are many chemicals that could be dangerous when they are opened and the skin exposed to them in large amounts. There is no way for me to prevent that, it's just the nature of T3.
This actually serves as a reminder to me that it is probably about time for me to pull the Tyronene/Tyromix products. Given the great responses we are getting about TyroMax, and the fact that NDT products in general are safer, there is little reason to sell these synthetic T3/T4 solutions which cannot seem to match every user's requirements for dosage per drop, absorption, etc.

 

[Regina]

The product was made to mimic the BlueSky Peptides product, which has 100mcg T3 per ml. That's what people asked for when I was releasing it. So, this came down to about 8mcg/drop. It was not done on purpose to make it unusable.
As far as the dilution - I always recommended regular ethyl alcohol (ethanol) for dilution. Many people commented that they cannot find ethanol with 70% concentration or higher and asked if rubbing alcohol would work. Yes, it would work for dilution if there is nothing else available. Since it is supposed to be a topical product, the rubbing alcohol should be OK. After all the rubbing alcohol is meant to be an alcohol for skin contact. The toxicity you refer to is in regards to oral exposure or inhalation of vapors, and in bigger amounts (several grams ingestion of pure rubbing alcohol). Topically, you would have to literally bathe yourself in rubbing alcohol to cause issues and the amount of rubbing alcohol even in 8:1 dilution of Tyronene won't even come close to a typical exposure of rubbing alcohol by somebody who is treating say open wounds.
There are many chemicals that could be dangerous when they are opened and the skin exposed to them in large amounts. There is no way for me to prevent that, it's just the nature of T3.
This actually serves as a reminder to me that it is probably about time for me to pull the Tyronene/Tyromix products. Given the great responses we are getting about TyroMax, and the fact that NDT products in general are safer, there is little reason to sell these synthetic T3/T4 solutions which cannot seem to match every user's requirements for dosage per drop, absorption, etc.

 

[haidut]

After three days, starting low, using 4mcg a day, topically, in DMSO, 1 mcg spaced every 3 hours, intrigued to find 4mcg = 30-40mcg tertroxin. I suppose this may change in time. Effects gentle but clear even to arrhythmia showing where the ceiling is. Appetite up and running out of glycogen fast. Probably need to add sat fat to help, but aiming for very low fat for weight loss so not much leeway. Good stuff.

Thank you!

 

[ilikecats]

@haidut. “That’s what people asked for”- I don’t believe that maybe one or two did (who are uneducated about T3 dosing) but multiple people were unhappy about the dosage as soon as it was released. Why should you care about Blue Sky’s formulation, you should be worrying about what Ray recommends... which even isn’t even about his opinion but the TRUTH on T3 dosing. Don’t you feel you have an obligation to follow Rays guidelines within regards to your products? You’re whole market nieche is built around a community that follows his work. Without ray peat there would be no idea labs. Yeah no one would need to be diluting it if it was 1mcg per drop so the problems of opening it would be moot. What I’m saying if someone wants to use your product properly they have to dilute it therefor they have to open it. Obviously some people will open it regardless but why impose that on people?. Also rays topical t3 dosage recommendations are very low if you’ve seen his email exchanges on the subject. And I’ll say that some tyronene is better than no tyronene. I just had to say my piece on the subject. I’ll still buy it if it’s 8mcg a drop but I still think it’s wack and just a bad idea. I don’t really get how you can’t see that 8mcg a drop was a bad idea anyways. It would really be a shame to stop selling tyronene and tyromix. Tyromix seems to be giving the best results out of the three for most people’s rats so it would suck to lose such a great product. Tyromix is dosed perfectly... they way the dosage for tyromax works out is perfect too. I’d be hard pressed to find someone that has a big problem with the way those are dosed per drop.

 

[vulture]

I get pretty confused with people here. They easily state that something gets a certain hormone up without even performing blood tests, but just adding a drop of this to a shutter with water, and sipping it along the day seems complicated and imprecise for them. You’ll see the stuff floating on top, make your rat ingest a small portion and that’s it

 

[haidut]

@haidut. “That’s what people asked for”- I don’t believe that maybe one or two did (who are uneducated about T3 dosing) but multiple people were unhappy about the dosage as soon as it was released. Why should you care about Blue Sky’s formulation, you should be worrying about what Ray recommends... which even isn’t even about his opinion but the TRUTH on T3 dosing. Don’t you feel you have an obligation to follow Rays guidelines within regards to your products? You’re whole market nieche is built around a community that follows his work. Without ray peat there would be no idea labs. Yeah no one would need to be diluting it if it was 1mcg per drop so the problems of opening it would be moot. What I’m saying if someone wants to use your product properly they have to dilute it therefor they have to open it. Obviously some people will open it regardless but why impose that on people?. Also rays topical t3 dosage recommendations are very low if you’ve seen his email exchanges on the subject. And I’ll say that some tyronene is better than no tyronene. I just had to say my piece on the subject. I’ll still buy it if it’s 8mcg a drop but I still think it’s wack and just a bad idea. I don’t really get how you can’t see that 8mcg a drop was a bad idea anyways. It would really be a shame to stop selling tyronene and tyromix. Tyromix seems to be giving the best results out of the three for most people’s rats so it would suck to lose such a great product. Tyromix is dosed perfectly... they way the dosage for tyromax works out is perfect too. I’d be hard pressed to find someone that has a big problem with the way those are dosed per drop.

When I said "that's what people asked for" I meant originally when I was releasing it they asked for a product that provides the same amount of T3 per bottle as the BlueSky Peptides product. It just came down to about 8mcg/drop. The comments from Peat about dilution and lower concentrations came much later, maybe after an year or so. That being said, I was interested in making a more diluted version but if you scroll through the thread and count how many people asked for this, it would be maybe 4-5 total. So, for those people the solution so far has been to send them an empty bottle when they place an order and they dilute it themselves. If the dilution was a mass request I would have done it by now. More importantly, even among the people who asked for diluted version, there is no agreement about desired concentration. Some asked for 6mcg/drop (to match what Peat said would e good to use as a single dose), others asked for 4mcg/drop, others for 2mcg/drop, and still others for 1mcg/drop.

 

[Momado965]

Can t3 cause pufe defeciency?

 

[haidut]

Can t3 cause pufe defeciency?

Anything that raises metabolism will eventually cause EFA deficiency. T3, aspirin, sucrose, SFA, etc will all do it with various effectiveness.

 

[Momado965]

Anything that raises metabolism will eventually cause EFA deficiency. T3, aspirin, sucrose, SFA, etc will all do it with various effectiveness.

How does t3 specifically cause pufa defeciency other than simply raising metabolism?

 

[ecstatichamster]

My rat loves the tyronene and tyromix

 

[Amazoniac]

The product was made to mimic the BlueSky Peptides product, which has 100mcg T3 per ml. That's what people asked for when I was releasing it. So, this came down to about 8mcg/drop. It was not done on purpose to make it unusable.
As far as the dilution - I always recommended regular ethyl alcohol (ethanol) for dilution. Many people commented that they cannot find ethanol with 70% concentration or higher and asked if rubbing alcohol would work. Yes, it would work for dilution if there is nothing else available. Since it is supposed to be a topical product, the rubbing alcohol should be OK. After all the rubbing alcohol is meant to be an alcohol for skin contact. The toxicity you refer to is in regards to oral exposure or inhalation of vapors, and in bigger amounts (several grams ingestion of pure rubbing alcohol). Topically, you would have to literally bathe yourself in rubbing alcohol to cause issues and the amount of rubbing alcohol even in 8:1 dilution of Tyronene won't even come close to a typical exposure of rubbing alcohol by somebody who is treating say open wounds.
There are many chemicals that could be dangerous when they are opened and the skin exposed to them in large amounts. There is no way for me to prevent that, it's just the nature of T3.
This actually serves as a reminder to me that it is probably about time for me to pull the Tyronene/Tyromix products. Given the great responses we are getting about TyroMax, and the fact that NDT products in general are safer, there is little reason to sell these synthetic T3/T4 solutions which cannot seem to match every user's requirements for dosage per drop, absorption, etc.

Instead of that, I'm one of the members signing a peatition for you to start selling dry/powdered products, just like the company Making Cosmetics (that happens to sell nicotinamide, magnesium hydroxide, and so on, intended for topical application). I know you have your reasons for not doing so yet, but I believe you'll thank me and the others later for insisting. We already discussed options for the homogenization issues for proprietary blends. Also, there's no need to choose between working exclusively with powders or solutions (jyb, 2012-18).


And as you know:

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

"About 30 years ago, when many people still thought of thyroxine as "the thyroid hormone," someone was making the argument that "the thyroid hormone" must work exclusively as an activator of genes, since most of the organ slices he tested didn't increase their oxygen consumption when it was added. In fact, the addition of thyroxine to brain slices suppressed their respiration by 6% during the experiment. Since most T3 is produced from T4 in the liver, not in the brain, I think that experiment had great significance, despite the ignorant interpretation of the author. An excess of thyroxine, in a tissue that doesn't convert it rapidly to T3, has an antithyroid action. (See Goumaz, et al, 1987.) This happens in many women who are given thyroxine; as their dose is increased, their symptoms get worse."

"Since T3 has a short half life, it should be taken frequently. If the liver isn't producing a noticeable amount of T3, it is usually helpful to take a few micorgrams per hour. Since it restores respiration and metabolic efficiency very quickly, it isn't usually necessary to take it every hour or two, but until normal temperature and pulse have been achieved and stabilized, sometimes it's necessary to take it four or more times during the day. T4 acts by being changed to T3, so it tends to accumulate in the body, and on a given dose, usually reaches a steady concentration after about two weeks.

An effective way to use supplements is to take a combination T4-T3 dose, e.g., 40 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3 once a day, and to use a few mcg of T3 at other times in the day."

 

[Regina]

My rat loves the tyronene and tyromix

+1!!!!

 

[Light]

When I said "that's what people asked for" I meant originally when I was releasing it they asked for a product that provides the same amount of T3 per bottle as the BlueSky Peptides product. It just came down to about 8mcg/drop. The comments from Peat about dilution and lower concentrations came much later, maybe after an year or so. That being said, I was interested in making a more diluted version but if you scroll through the thread and count how many people asked for this, it would be maybe 4-5 total. So, for those people the solution so far has been to send them an empty bottle when they place an order and they dilute it themselves. If the dilution was a mass request I would have done it by now. More importantly, even among the people who asked for diluted version, there is no agreement about desired concentration. Some asked for 6mcg/drop (to match what Peat said would e good to use as a single dose), others asked for 4mcg/drop, others for 2mcg/drop, and still others for 1mcg/drop.

I ordered it a few days ago, will be getting it finally in the day after tomorrow, and since it's the first time in my life i'll be trying thyroid of any kind I do intend to dilute it and go slowly.
Since it's soluble in alcohol it should be soluble in water, and I was going to mix it with filtered water and sip slowly throughout the day.
Do you think that would be fine @haidut ?

 

[Wagner83]

Instead of that, I'm one of the members signing a peatition for you to start selling dry/powdered products, just like the company Making Cosmetics (that happens to sell nicotinamide, magnesium hydroxide, and so on, intended for topical application). I know you have your reasons for not doing so yet, but I believe you'll thank me and the others later for insisting.

Many people when they type make a mistake between mcg and mg, it's scary.

 

[Light]

@Fexxx i find the drop of tyronene mostly floats on top of the water. Even if you shake it up before consumption it seems to quickly float back to the top so I think it’s hard to get the dosage right when using a method like that.

Weird. If it floats on water that would mean it's oily, and should mix well with other oily stuff,
yet the solvent is ethanol, which is polar = non oily, so it really should easily blend with water.
I wonder why that is, as I plan on mixing it with water too and was expecting that would work quite well.
@ilikecats , did you happen to find something that makes for a good diluter?