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Tyronene - Liquid T3 For Lab/research Use

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Aug 5, 2016.

  1. kezfez

    kezfez Member

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    This is the first topical thyroid med ive tried, so my only comparison.
     
  2. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    I made another post not seeing this thread discussion - I'm not getting any impact from 16mcg doses and up to 80mcg a day from Tyronene, so will push it up to 25mcg doses and maybe up to 100mcg and see what happens.

    Anyone else noticing less effect that with the old Grossman Cynomel tablets ?? - I never dared take half a pill (12.5mc) in one dose when I used that as would get hyper symptoms. I took 1/6th to 1/4 doses so 4-6mcg.
     
  3. kezfez

    kezfez Member

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    Do you have a thyroid Aquaman? Its possible for you that you may have a high rt3 that is competing with the t3 fir cell entry? I have no rt3 as i have no t4 in my system, but not sure of your situation.
    Years ago when i changed from ndt to t3 it took 3 months on a very high t3 dosage ie about 110mcg, to feel ok while my rt3 was clearing, then all of a sudden i went hyper and had to refuce my t3 gradually down to 40 ehere i have been stable for a long time.
     
  4. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    How do you know you had high rt3 and if one has, how does one get rid of it ? TyroMix with t3 and t4 should also be good and produce something even tho one has high rt3
     
  5. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    You mean do I have thyroid gland? It's not been removed.

    I only take a bit of T4 from the Tyromix becuase I used to mix Cynoplus and Cytomel successfully at about 1:1 ratio T3 to T4. Normally I'd take the Cynoplus later in the evening to help through the night so would still be converting some T4 to T3 as I slept. I never used to take more than 40mcg.

    I only went to NDT (Tyromax) when the Mexican pharmacies stopped selling Cynoplus/Cytomel
     
  6. kezfez

    kezfez Member

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    Rt3 is measured via blood like the other hormones...its usually likely though if you have a high T4 level and lowish T3. Rt3 is the bodies way of breaking down t4, prev
    Rt3 is measured via blood. Its a natural response to lower T4 levels, and in effect lower metabolism. RT3 increases in cases of illness, or fasting or from supplementing with unnecessary thyroid meds. If you have a decent level of t4 and take extra t3 it will increase rt., and if you take too much t4 it will convert to rt. to normalise levels.
     
  7. kezfez

    kezfez Member

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    Sorry, yes...i'm used to being on forums for thyroidless people lol...I meant do you have your own thyroid function? Ie, taking thyroid meds when you have a decent level will increase Rt3.
     
  8. Peatnik Boetry

    Peatnik Boetry New Member

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    Just wondering roughly how much DMSO would be in each drop of this?

    My test subject is supposed to avoid DMSO according to the chelation protocol it is following, but if the amount is small enough it may still be acceptable.

    Thanks:)
     
  9. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    Anyone monitoring pulse and temp pre and post-Tyronene use?

    How many mcg does it take you to get a pulse and temp improvement??

    Taken 32mcg in last 4 hours and no change. Had around 1000 calories over 2.5 meals.
     
  10. blob69

    blob69 Member

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    I'm currently trying out Tyronene and at 25 mcg/day it had no effect whatsoever, which was also confirmed by labs (my TSH goes down quickly if T3 works). I've increased to 100 mcg in last week, but even with this amount my pulse and symptoms remain the same. Will test TSH again in some days to confirm.

    Thylexan was the best T3 med so far, at just 25 mcg it made me almost hyper and raised pulse above 100, but it was summer while now it's winter where I am. So I know I'm responsive to T3, I just wish I could make Tyronene work as well.
     
  11. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    Same, except I was away for a month in the tropics so the winter effect wasn't an issue - was taking 80mcg/day while in hot weather at a high elevation so should have been feeling it.
     
  12. blob69

    blob69 Member

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    It can't be only winter with me either, as I'm taking 4 times as much T3 as I did in the summer and still feel nothing. My TSH has always lowered with very small amounts of T3, it's just Tyronene that doesn't budge it. I'll report back when I get a new TSH result this week, but given my pulse and how I feel I'm starting to consider this a failed experiment.

    Have you noticed a difference between taking it orally or transdermally? I only tried it transdermally, wondering if should I give it a go orally?
     
  13. Meatbag

    Meatbag Member

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    @haidut

    A while back you posted that some rats might need higher doses of T3. After having disappointing results with thyroid in the past decided to give this advice a shot. It has been going REALLY well! Much more relaxed and no anxiety when applying 3 drops all over rat's stomach three times a day. After several days it resolved excessive sweating, that is until started slamming the coffee this week with resuming busy schedule after a long break. know Ray Peat has talked in his books about the fact that some hypothyroid people who have been relying on adrenals shouldn't use coffee while recovering so guess rat will have to go without it for the time being (super addicted tho). Although temps are actually LOWER, feel warmer in extremities and not overheated in chest and armpits etc. Heart rate is lower (high 60's to 70's) too but I feel way better than I do at 90 bpm. Also family members have commented that my hair is growing really fast, hopefully the bald patches fill in eventually :). Skin is clearer than ever also, including the back which nothing so far has helped with completely. Feels really lazy and relaxed lately but guess that is better than the extreme ups and downs going on before. Ankles are WAY less swollen, they have been really bad with swelling and varicose veins since using Mirtazapine for a couple months ( started noticing some vein issues before that too, maybe the weight gain made it worse). Noticed that using Tyromix brought the swelling back to the ankles within five minutes so it seems using T4 at this time is a bad idea. One day after using the above methods for two weeks, rat didn't use any tyronene and then randomly worked out (deadlifts etc) in the afternoon. The workout felt okay despite not lifting for a year but afterwards and the following experienced extreme hypo symptoms, dandruff got really bad for two days like it was before the tyronene improved flakes...maybe too much adrenaline and muscle breakdown blocking T3 effects? Also appetite seems different, long periods where not very hungry...

    I know a lot of people have commented that Tyronene doesn't work but for my rat I've seen a lot of positives so far and hope the trajectory continues. Just to contrast with previous experiments; T3 pro - felt more like drinking two strong cups of coffee on empty stomach or zero effect...maybe the product is not very consistent in the distribution of the active hormone? Tyromax- strong adrenaline surges, just did not feel that good, heart rate extremely high- lifestyle was different in those days to though. Novitoral: felt really depressed, no libido, didn't feel good at all, very lame. Tyromix: See above.

    Also I recently started using cyproheptadine (on rat) with thyroid and noticed a huge increase in testicle size and firmness. I tested with just cyproheptadine and didn't notice the same results, didn't notice much of anything really except for some hunger (haven't applied more than 6mg and usually apply on the inside of forearms, rubbing them together). The two go together really well in my experiments and right now are the only two supps rat is taking other than some vitamins. The only time hyperthyroid effects (fast heart rate, overheating, anxiety attacks) appear is when coffee is consumed. Maybe that is a sign of liver issues or just activates still oversensative adrenals. (this also gets rid of the testicle effect)

    Sorry for the long winded post :)
     
  14. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    @Meatbag Thank you for great info. I was wondering, you said TyroMix brought swelling back in ankles. So the T3 only resolved water retention/edema for you? Have you tried topical on wrists etc and get the same results? why stomach ? :p also have you tried it orally and did that do anything?

    Did you start notice positive effects right away from the thyroid or did everything take some days before results appeared ? have you measured your temp?
     
  15. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Awesome, thanks for the feedback! I would stick with T3 if a T4/T3 combination gives you water retention. You can try a bi of T4/T3 combo before bed and T3 during the day, just like Ray does.
     
  16. Meatbag

    Meatbag Member

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    Actually once 25 mcg was applied it was instant, I hadn't had any coffee that day and took some niacinamide (like 200 mg) after breakfast before applying. Felt very relaxed and anxiety felt a lot better. Noticed the water retention effects the next day. I rub it on the stomach and chest with forearms usually. Sometimes apply to just forearms when at school or work but I always think it is better with a larger surface area. Temps are good and bounce around the 98's sometime upper 97's. Heart rate is lower with thyroid but it feels better if that makes since. Haven't tried orally yet, if I do
    i'll post results.
     
  17. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    As an update, I switched back to TyroMax yesterday and today after many months of Tyronene and Tyromix. I have 2 old bottles of Tyromax about 1/4 and 1/2 full.

    The effect is noticeable. Tyronene and TyroMix really don't seem to work for me. TyroMax which I had actually thought didn't work before (I used it topically) now seems to be working orally.. Ray mentioned in a recent podcast about topical T3 not being able to effect blood concentrations enough.

    I have used it in doses of 4 drops at a time orally, I had a noticeable temp, mood and pulse increase each time. Now 20 drops down through the day and feel very good. Warm, hands and feet warm and pulse over 75 resting (has been in 60s with 80mcg of Tyronene in me). Also I felt a cold coming yesterday which seems to have been knocked out by TyroMax.

    HOWEVER it's clear the tyronene and TyroMix are definitely not working for me (have been regularly taking up to 80mcg T3 both orally and topically). It's not the bottle, since I have 2 separate bottles of Tyronene bought in different months and a bottle of Tyromix bought at another month.

    Haidut - how confident are you in your T3 supplier? Or is there a chance the chemical is breaking down in DMSO?
     
  18. haidut

    haidut Member

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    The T3 supplier is top notch and their product is rock solid when used in its powder form. I have tried and tested it on many subjects. I think Ray maybe onto something with the topical T3 not raising blood levels enough. Currently waiting on analysis results from a lab to which I sent Tyronene and TyroMix samples. The lab told me that they have analyzed liquid thyroid products before and they were all fine, but I will wait for the results before I make a definitive statement.
     
  19. Koveras

    Koveras Member

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    I wonder if some of the differences for preference of NDT over pure T3/T4 are due to differences in transthyretin/prealbumin levels between individuals (with NDT coming bound and the pure substances unbound) due to nutritional status or inflammation (from leaky capillaries)

    Transthyretin function could also be modified by oxidative damage (relation to PUFA levels, stress, and E/C/nutrient deficiencies?)

    Various substances may also compete for binding with transthyretin (excess vitamin A, phytoestrogens, drugs, toxins)

    Of course your comment above makes sense as well, if the pure T3 topical is metabolized extensively locally before reaching circulation.

    ...and then liver health and the level of the counter-regulatory hormones will play a large role with thyroid pathway function generally as well..

    "Prealbumin, also known as transthyretin, has a half-life in plasma of ∼2 days, much shorter than that of albumin. Prealbumin is therefore more sensitive to changes in protein-energy status than albumin, and its concentration closely reflects recent dietary intake rather than overall nutritional status (5). Because of this short half-life, however, the concentration of prealbumin falls rapidly as a result of the fall in its synthetic rate when there is a reprioritization of synthesis toward acute-phase proteins such as C-reactive protein (CRP), fibrinogen, or α1-acid glycoprotein. Moreover, prealbumin concentration in plasma, like that of albumin, is affected by changes in transcapillary escape. Hence, interpretation of plasma prealbumin is difficult in patients with infections, inflammation, or recent trauma (4). Despite this difficulty, interest in prealbumin as a potential marker of nutritional status in certain groups of patients led to the First International Congress on Transthyretin in Health and Disease in 2002 (6)."

    Serum Prealbumin: Is It a Marker of Nutritional Status or of Risk of Malnutrition? | Clinical Chemistry

    Biochemistry. 2013 Mar 19;52(11):1913-26. doi: 10.1021/bi301313b. Epub 2013 Mar 4.
    Age-related oxidative modifications of transthyretin modulate its amyloidogenicity.
    Zhao L1, Buxbaum JN, Reixach N.

    The transthyretin amyloidoses are diseases of protein misfolding characterized by the extracellular deposition of fibrils and other aggregates of the homotetrameric protein transthyretin (TTR) in peripheral nerves, heart, and other tissues. Age is the major risk factor for the development of these diseases. We hypothesized that an age-associated increase in the level of protein oxidation could be involved in the onset of the senile forms of the TTR amyloidoses. To test this hypothesis, we have produced and characterized relevant age-related oxidative modifications of the wild type (WT) and the Val122Ile (V122I) TTR variant, both involved in cardiac TTR deposition in the elderly. Our studies show that methionine/cysteine-oxidized TTR and carbonylated TTR from either the WT or the V122I variant are thermodynamically less stable than their nonoxidized counterparts. Moreover, carbonylated WT and carbonylated V122I TTR have a stronger propensity to form aggregates and fibrils than WT and V122I TTR, respectively, at physiologically attainable pH values. It is well-known that TTR tetramer dissociation, the limiting step for aggregation and amyloid fibril formation, can be prevented by small molecules that bind the TTR tetramer interface. Here, we report that carbonylated WT TTR is less amenable to resveratrol-mediated tetramer stabilization than WT TTR. All the oxidized forms of TTR tested are cytotoxic to a human cardiomyocyte cell line known to be a target for cardiac-specific TTR variants. Overall, these studies demonstrate that age-related oxidative modifications of TTR can contribute to the onset of the senile forms of the TTR amyloidoses.
     
  20. blob69

    blob69 Member

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    Had labs done today and with more than 100 mcg Tyronene topically TSH is still 1 (as high as it used to be) and cholesterol is still too high. My TSH goes down to almost zero quickly even with very small amounts of T3 and so does cholesterol, so I believe that Tyronene either doesn't absorb through skin or has a very low potency.

    I'm now going to try it orally for a week or two and then have another test done.
     
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