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TyroMix - Liquid T3/T4 For Lab/research Use

  1. I am pleased to announce the release of TyroMix - a combination of synthetic T3/T4 hormones dissolved in DMSO and ethanol. While it is difficult to compare effects of liquid hormones (especially ones dissolved in DMSO) to tablets and other dry material, the effects of 12 drops of TyroMix should be roughly equivalent to a single tablet of the Cynoplus product that is no longer in production anywhere.
    The naturally found concentrations in the thyroid gland of animals of T4 and T3 are usually in a ratio of 4:1 or 5:1 and this ratio is most commonly found in NDT products like Armour. However, in hypothyroid people this high ratio of T4 to T3 can lead to rapid inactivation of T4 into reverse T3 (rT3) and thus worsen symptoms of hypothyroidism. According to Ray Peat, in hypothyroid states a much more desirable ratio would be 3:1 or even 2:1. It is the 2:1 ratio that the TyroMix provides for research/lab purposes.
    There is no need for references on this product, so in this thread I am just providing the basic information on the ingredients and concentration per drop.

    The units listed on the label are just for measurement purposes. They do not indicate suggested or optimal dose. Please note that similar to the products sold by companies like BlueSky, this product if for lab/research use only. The product can be ordered from the link below:
    IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery - Laboratory Research Chemicals

    *******************************************************************************
    Triiodothyronine (T3) is the active thyroid hormone in humans. It is synthesized from thyroxine (T4) and some other thyroid percursors, primarily in the liver. It affects almost every physiological process in the body, including growth and development, metabolism, body temperature, and heart rate. The combination of synthetic T4 and T3 provided by TyroMix has been extensively studied over the last 50 years.

    Drops per container: about 360
    Each drop contains the following ingredients:

    Liothyronine (T3) sodium, USP: 3 mcg
    Levothyroxine (T4) sodium, USP: 6 mcg

    Other ingredients: DMSO, ethanol
    *******************************************************************************
     
  2. lisuride is also available ?
     
  3. got dam, you are producing amazing products. i love it
     
  4. Can you help find research on the 2:1 ratio?
     
  5. @haidut

    Should this be dosed topically on the lab ray or orally? Would one be more effective than the other?
     
  6. It's Ray's suggestion for hypothyroid organisms. For very severe cases he even says pure T3 is better with T4/T3 mix taken only at night.
     
  7. I prefer topical but both routes can be used depending on what the rat prefers. Some rats do not like the effects of DMSO on skin and the aftertaste it gives them but in the doses used in TyroMix the aftertaste should not be an issue.
     
  8. Is it just like pure T3 wise to spread it over the day?

    Like a drop every 2 hours?

    Cheers
     
  9. What do you mean "is it just like pure T3"? It is not just like, it IS pure T3. So, however you found the other T3 to be effectively administered this should be no different.
     
  10. Pure T 3 should be spread over a day...

    Tyromix also contains T4 that is why i'm asking
     
  11. Oh I see, my mistake. Well, actually any thyroid should probably not be taken in a single large dose as even in the presence of T3 excess T4 will still convert into rT3. So, I would use several times a day on the rats. Personally, I tried it 3 times a day in a dose of 4 drops and it worked well. Actually a bit better than Tyronene, which made me a bit sleepy (which is not a bad thing btw).
     
  12. Great !

    Thanks i will first experiment with T3 only for a few months, my rats have low cortisol and when winter kicks in i can notice better if their high Rt3 comes down and their cortisol will go up with T3 only, if that works i can switch to this and see if they still do well on it...

    Keep ya posted!
     
  13. @haidut How can I order from you? I don't see a way on your site. Thanks!
     
  14. :)
     
  15. Anyone having better results with this than TyroMax?
     
  16. Yes. Much quicker acting. I love it so far.
     
  17. How are you dosing it?
     
  18. Topical?
     
  19. 3 drops with breakfast lunch and dinner and 2 drops in between. So like 13 drops a day.
     
  20. Yes. Inside wrists/forearms
     
  21. Did you say it was more effective than NDT? Which NDT was your rat using for comparison?

    And are you stacking this with Tyronene (T3)?
     
  22. Used legit Naturethroid for NDT. Not stacking. I like the 2:1 ratio of t4 to t3
     
  23. Awesome dude. Thanks for the help!
     
  24. I'm glad to hear that it's effective topically.
     
  25. What about using this on the scalp for hair growth?
     
  26. Anyone have any life-changing thyroid stories with this? I definitely will use it to replace my Thiroyd when I run out.
     
  27. This product looked so nice, i just had to give it a whirl. Never taken thyroid before in any form.
    Been doing 1 drop in the morning for about a week, and from the get go good things were happening.

    It's probably the best antidepressant i've ever tried, the "outer-directedness" that Peat mentions in a quote
    was definitely there, like a positive feeling ready to engage in people and things.

    Bowels are actually moving, despite cypro. Had some weird gyno symptoms the first few days, nipples feeling strange and itchy.
    Would that be estrogen being pushed out of cells by thyroid?

    So far looking very promising, now if i could just get thumbs out and start taking temps.
     
  28. 1 drop topically?

    Do you know your TSH?

    It seems pretty strong stuff...
     
  29. TSH was 1.87 4 months ago, now i don't know

    I could probably go higher in dose for even better feels, but thought i'd take it nice and easy to begin with.
    Right now i'm just so happy to not be constipated
     
  30. Perfect.... seems i need 2 drops to start with...

    Good to take it nice and easy, just like Peat says!
     
  31. Just placed an order; high hopes here.
     
  32. Let us know!
     
  33. Hey Dave how do you plan on dosing Tyromix when coming off NDT Thiroyd? How many grains of Thiroyd are you currently on?
     
  34. Just bumped up to 1 grain. I'm not worried at all.

    I'll start with 1 drop, and maybe the first day I'll do about 4-6 drops depending on how I feel. The T4 difference is only 20 mcg or so.
     
  35. Woah this looks like the dream thyroid supplement (for rats)
     
  36. just made my order. Cant wait :D
     
  37. Same here.
     
  38. Reporting in; 4-5 drops seems okay at this point. I'm probably going to stay under 8 drops (maybe 6 drops) for a couple weeks).

    It's definitely effective; my mood is better, my temp goes up, and my bowels get moving. Gives me energy, and the fast absorption topically allows me to drink milk without worrying about calcium binding: (same goes for iron).
     
  39. Excellent, this is what I was expecting. If things continue to go well in terms of report I might discontinue TyroMax unless people really want to keep it. TyroMix is a much cleaner supplement, with better T4:T3 ratio, less DMSO per dose and no sedimentation. Also, it may last more than a typical bottle of TyroMax for most people. Well, time will tell I guess.
    Thanks for sharing.
     
  40. I've never tried a thyroid supplement before - how long after you take some drops before you see an effect? Trying to get my pulse from 60 up to 85! Excitedly waiting for mine in the mail!!
     
  41. With 5 drops twice/day of TyroMax (the NDT supplement), my morning temps were usually about 96.5, with daytime temps going up to 98.0 to 98.6. Now with TyroMix 1 drop twice/day (the synthetic T3/T4), my temp this morning was 97.1. That's the best it's ever been without Ritanserin, and this is only after a few days of experimentation. I also feel very warm. I tried 2 drops TyroMix before I went to sleep the other day, and I woke up with 96.3 and feeling kind of lousy. I get an overcompensation from the liver if I take too much T3. I have other brands of T3 and T4 that I've tried in different ratios, both orally and topically, and TyroMix is definitely superior. I'm also getting constipation, which may require me to lower my dose of Cyproheptadine. This is very unusual. I haven't taken any Ritanserin in at least a week. I see this as possibly a systemic lowering of serotonin. I'm also sleeping like a baby, and usually I'm a very light sleeper. Early report says TyroMix is a win. And only 2 drops of DMSO is a drop in the bucket. Best thyroid supplement I've ever taken. I'll post if I get any problems.
     
  42. Wow, thank for this feedback! This makes me even more keen on stopping the old TyroMax (NDT). It has been a hit and miss for some people and TyroMix so far seems like a win-win for everybody and their rats :)
     
  43. Topically or orally?
     
  44. I'm considering switching to TyroMix (currently on TyroMax). I noticed it is a "research chemical", so as i order from europe is there any difference in how the package will be labeled compared to the products from "Supplements"?
     
  45. Nope, the package has the same labeling as before.
     
  46. Topically. Since it's not NDT, I don't see any reason to take it orally.
     
  47. Some would say that it would be... Pointless
     
  48. Just like our brief life in this cruel joke of a world.



    :D
     
  49. Good and bad are constructs of the human mind... It is.
     
  50. I'm hoping for some guidance. I have two older rats (the equivalent of 67 y.o. in human years...) who I'll call Mama Rat and Papa Rat. Papa Rat has been hypo and on synthroid for decades. Papa Rat has always believed that the humans in lab coats know what they're talking about, even though he continues to be a poster child (poster rat?) for hypo. Every symptom you can think of, he has it, and for decades he's thought it was all his fault that he was obese and bald and depressed (it makes me want to kill people, how miserable he's been for no reason :rage). I've been trying to convince Papa Rat for years that the people in lab coats are (well-meaning) morons, and he's finally starting to reconsider. He even asked about T3 the last time he went in and was, not surprisingly, shot down. I'm wondering, if I can convince Papa Rat to try Tyromix instead of his evil Synthroid, what would be a good, safe way for him to do that? I will probably try to get Mama Rat to try it first. She has been on Synthroid for only a couple years and is much more open minded about things. But the last thing I want to do is create problems for them that would scare them into listening only to the lab coats again, so any suggestions are welcome. I.e., would they need to slowly transition or just quit the one and start the other? Any guidelines for how many drops a severely hypo rat (with, no doubt, a lot of useless T4 flooding his system) should start with?

    I tested a drop of Tyromix today on the inside of my (other, younger) rat's wrist, and she felt a lift in mood in less than 60 seconds! I'll report back in a week or so when I've done more testing. A friend's rat also used one drop today for the first time, and her rat reported immediately feeling more relaxed yet more alert and also feeling happy. This rat tried Cytomel years ago and always got jittery, but she got none of that from the 1 drop of Tyromix.
     
  51. Are the majority of you guys dosing this item topically or orally?
     
  52. Thanks Denise! This is great feedback.
    Most people experimenting on their rats reported in this thread that optimal results came from 2-3 drops at a time. Some people could not handle more than 1 drop at a time. Ideally, thyroid should be used in the lowest dose that results in resolution of symptoms in order to avoid suppression of endogenous production. Given that the DMSO potentiates the effects of these steroids in the cell, I think staying at 2 drops per dose and maybe taking that twice a day would be a good start. I would try to administer one dose in the morning and one at night to keep the rats from going hypo at night. Maybe 1 drop in the morning and 2 at night due to the lack of light and higher stress for 8 hours. But feel free to experiment and just make sure you don't go too high too quickly.
    Just my 2c.
     
  53. Thanks, I'll start with that. In other good news, even though it's been all of 36 hours since I started using this, I can already say that it's helping with digestion (which is downright miraculous, in my case). My friend and I think that you should have called this product Magic Drops.
     
  54. Lol, good suggestion. But if you call this Magic Drops and call Oxidal "Blue Magic" as per the movie American Gangster the FDA will have even more reason to come and see me. They would be thinking "no way in hell that these are just supplements with names and testimonials like that".
     
  55. FDA would be allll over you. The key is finding a word that sounds like it means something when it actually doesn't. You can't have a label that says anti inflammatory(disease state) but if it's called zyflamend everyone knows what it does.

    Some fun ideas: trulene blue, methylenetropics, azureabolics .
     
  56. I made the decision of consolidating my doses in the morning; took 2 drops, and then 2 drops about an hour later.

    BPM at 103
    Temp at 98.8

    It certainly works.
     
  57. Well, no matter what you call them, we know what they are!

    I forgot to ask--if I get Papa Rat to try the Tyromix, are there things he needs to watch closely? I know he's on statins, BP meds, coumadin, and an anti-seizure med. Of course he gets regular labs done, but is there anything that could go quickly and drastically out of range (and potentially cause problems) if his body is suddenly getting thyroid again? Or should starting low and slow be enough to prevent anything like that?

    Thanks again for everything you're doing, haidut. You're improving many lives around here.
     
  58. Maybe heart rate and cholesterol levels would be something to watch for. You generally don't want the heart rate to go above 100 consistenly and 85-90 BPM is best. Since thyroid can lower cholesterol, adding more in the diet through sugar and eggs is important if LDL drops below 150.
     
  59. Can someone explain why taking T3 and T4 together would be better than taking just T3?
     
  60. Prolongs the effects of T3. T3 has relatively short effects (albeit powerful) so it is OK to dose every few hours during the day. But at night, when you can't dose it every few hours you need T4 as it converts slowly into T3 in the liver and supplies steady stream of T3 to the organism. Also, some people experience palpitations and anxiety from T3 and adding T4 seems to eliminate this issue. Peat himself had these issues, so now he takes T3 during the day and T4/T3 combo before bed.
     
  61. It can increase the requirements for many nutrients, including calories, protein, minerals, vitamins. One example is that Peat has said that sometimes thyroid supps can help muscles take up magnesium, and if it happens fast it can leave a low level in the blood. He has in some cases suggested supplementing Mg at the same time as thyroid.
    starting very slow would help mitigate risks.
     
  62. This is solid advice especially given the high potency of this supplement.
    If you are pushing too hard and run out of cholesterol you are going to have a bad time.
    Learned it the hard way several times.

    Signs to look out for:
    -irritability, mood swings
    -digestive issues, for example fatty stool
     
  63. Received my tyromix in the mail today. The rats heart rate is usually at around 55-60 bpm, but after 1 drop 15 minutes later the rats heart rate measures consistently reads around 75 bmp. Will continue to monitor throughout the day.
     
  64. Got mine in the mail today as well, great.
     
  65. So yesterday my daily average resting heart rate was 66 bpm with one drop in the morning, previously my highest average daily heart rate was 61 (as measured in the last week, without thyroid). This morning accidentally I got 3 drops on my wrist, so we'll see how that goes. I'm getting between 60~70 readings now.
     
  66. Do organisms sometimes need even lower ratios of T4:T3? I am having better results with this 2:1 ratio than with other products but something still doesn't seem right and I thought of lowering my dose a bit and adding in more pure T3. Though there could be other confounding hormonal factors I acknowledge.
     
  67. Ive been thinking the same - it seems my bpm spike around 30 to 60 minutes after taking this (spikes to 70 lol) and afterwards remsins around low 60s.

    This is still an improvement - without i was around high 50s. But perhaps id benefit from pure t3 through out the day as well.
     
  68. Ray said that for severe hypothyroidism even 1:1 ratio may be needed. So, I did 2:1 in TyroMix and it can be made 1:1 by adding some Tyronene.
     
  69. See my other reply above. Some people may need 1:1 ratio or even pure T3 until they recover.
     
  70. Thanks haidut. T3 only didn't work well when I tried it so it's time to experiment with something in between. :)
     
  71. This is too, too strong for me. I can't sleep with 2 drops (1 morning, 1 afternoon). Going to dilute this 8 times with DMSO and vodka to have each drop ~.375 mcg / .75 mcg T3 / T4

    As with other idealab topicals, this does feel 5-10 times stronger than the same dose of the sup in oral form.

    Guess it's not a huge matter, but what is your ratio of DMSO to ethanol in these sups?
     
  72. @haidut If Im not mistaken, if a 1/3 of a cynoplus tablet equals 1 grain, this would also be the same for tyromix with 4 drops right? Do you think the potency of this product is potentiated and delivery more effective with DMSO?

    I gave my rat one drop last night just to experiment and showed an elevation in mood for sure. Seems like an amazing product.
     
  73. I think the DMSO and the increased half-life from transdermal use make this a functionally more potent product. As such, most people using it reported doing best on 2-4 drops daily and going beyond that caused issues. When you ingest 1 grain equivalent of Cynoplus a very small portion (~15%) actually reaches the bloodstream. With TyroMix, almost everything reaches the bloodstream when taken topically. So, on the bases of that crude comparison, I'd say TyroMix (topically) is probably 6-7 times more potent than Cynoplus (orally).
     
  74. What would you do personally if uour heart rate was generally high? Usually 95-105. Do you think starting tyromix would be unwise in this situation?
    Also, have you considered lower dose t3 supp? Ideally 3mg for easy 1:1 ratio with tyromix?
     
  75. Could you give a brief summary of your opinion on temperature? 85-90 BPM, and I know that 98.6 degrees Farenheit would be acceptable (measured underarm for example), or do you think 99.0 would be a better mark, or maybe whatever you temp stays at with a pulse of 85-90?
     
  76. Very interesting. I've tried a half drop in the morning only the last few days from receiving it. My heart rate was normally in the high 70s and I'm interested in what the product can do for me. Pansterone and some other supps have been very helpful this year. With the ~half drop, no problems sleeping and I've had a good few days, energy-wise, wakefulness and sense of wellbeing. After sitting for a few minutes, my heart rate is around 88 right now. I'll try one drop soon to see what that's like. I was leery about trying some in the afternoon but maybe spreading out one drop would be okay.
     
  77. How do you dilute or take a half drop? If a different bottle, you estimate the drops are the same size?
     
  78. Oh. Are the dosages dmso-calibrated? i.e will taking 1 serving of tyromix still be 3mg t3 and 6mg t4 physiologically?
     
  79. No, we have not calibrated the dose as there aren't many studies showing exactly how much DMSO potentiates the steroid effects. So, what you see is what you get in terms of doses and if it feels like the dose is too high I'd go by symptoms and not what doses are supposed to produce specific affects.
     
  80. From my tests, I would agree with haidut's estimate that this is 6-7 times more potent than oral thyroid. so 3mcg t3 and 6mg t4 would hit you like ~19.5 mcg / 39 mcg.
     
  81. .2*
    Yeah a 15 ml dopper bottle should give about 360 drops.

    So into a new 15 ml bottle and using a 10 mL graduated cylinder I put:

    30 drops Tyromix (= 1.25 ml)
    7.5 ml vodka
    6.25 ml of DMSO

    Each drop is now ~.25 mcg T3 / .5 mcg T4
     
  82. Awesome. What do the effects of this feel like?
     
  83. I'm currently taking 100 mcg of liquid T3 now and would like to try cutting back and adding TyroMix at night. Any suggestion on dosages for both? I will be adding 11-Keto DHT that came in the male today next week too.
     
  84. I'm considering switching from the liquid oral T3 to transdermal Tyronrne, but the oral is working and hate to try to fix what isn't broken.
     
  85. This is all very strange sounding because I don't feel much of an effect from 1 drop. I get very edgy symptoms when I ingest more than I need of T3 (T3-Pro), which could be just 5mcg depending on the time of day and how much T3 is in my system at the moment. If this potency thing is the case I would expect to have a huge effect from a drop of Tyromix. I don't *at all*.
     
  86. I mean that what I feel from a drop of Tyromix in terms of T3 is very similar to what I feel from 3mcg of T3-Pro.
     
  87. I think it would make sense that different people are getting different effects. Everyone's metabolism is in a different place at the time of dosing. One person might be converting T4 a lot better than another person, or they might have more T3 in their system already at the time of dosing. There are just so many variables from person to person.
     
  88. That could explain certain differences with different people using the same product but I don't see how that exaplains my comparison between two T3 products, which has been consistent for me while using both day to day.
     
  89. I'll try it out the next few days and report back. So far I've only tried the default concentration @ 2 drops a day, and I couldn't sleep. I felt good on it though, and it completely slayed my depression and calmed my anxiety. At night at bedtime I didn't get tired at all though, even though the last 3mcg T3 / 6 mcg T4 dose was about 8 hours earlier.
     
  90. Whats the best way to use this? once/day, 2x/day, morning, afternoon, night?
     
  91. You're comparing T3 only with a T3+T4 product. The T4 significantly slows down the effect and dampens it. So 6 mcg of T3 from TyroMix is not going to give you overdose symptoms, even if 5 mcg T3 from T3-Pro will.
     
  92. It makes that much of a difference if the T4 and T3 are in the same solution or taken immediately together vs the T4 already being in my blood and tissues? If so I guess that would explain the smoother feeling the Tyromix gives.
     
  93. Hey all, wondering what it might mean if I experience lower pulse rate after taking Tyromix?
    I just received mine today and took two doses--the first 2 drops in the afternoon, the second 3 drops before bed and my pulse nearly dropped 10 seconds from 61 to 53 :( :( ??
     
  94. If you have not used thyroid supps before, then you could try taking a more cautious approach to beginning supplementation. Reading other comments here, it seems some people got quite significant effects from just one drop in a day.
     
  95. Thanks Tara. Yea, I've never taken thyroid before, that was my thought initially but when one drop didn't have any effect I figured I needed more. I will continue to experiment, trying one drop today and monitoring temps/pulse. My temp this AM was pretty low at 96 but waking pulse was about 79...?
     
  96. Pulse always has to be measured with core temps and while also checking temp of the extremities. In some people, thyroid lowers pulse if it was high before that due to adrenaline/cortisol.
     
  97. My rat would like to know if TyroMix is just as effective when taken orally. Thank you