TSH, prolactin and PTH are not being suppressed....

xeliex

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42 yo male with hx of suspected hypothyroidism. Obese with BMI of 32.

I had been taking 1 grain of desiccated thyroid (tyromax) and 8000 iu of vitamin D daily.
Peaty(ish) diet for about 5 years with hx of fasting, dieting, extreme fitness, etc..
Calcium intake of around 1000mg + per day.

The pituitary feedback seems to be messed up. With that much vitamin D and adequate calcium, the PTH should be low.

My hypothyroid symptoms are much improved, but not perfect. I can't seem to lose weight. My morning temps are low but daytime temps are normal.

I ran these tests because I have been having whole body twitching at times, to rule out hypercalcemic cause.

Any guiding comments would be appreciated.


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Peatful

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How do you carry your extra weight?
What is your height and weight currently?

How many years ago did you- fast, over exercise etc?

What is your current kcal/day?
What macro percentage?

Lastly, what is your big life stressor currently- if any?

You are quite hypothyroid - and under metabolic stress
 

PeskyPeater

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muscle spasms can be from a buildup of serotonin and low activity of GABA to relax. Niacinamide can increase the uptake of serotonin and it's metabolism and acts upon GABA. Also glycine works as an CNS inhibitor

Losartan helps reduce HPA activity and control serotonin
 

VitoScaletta

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If you are on Thyroid, consume more sugar and B Vitamins. I can elaborate on good sources for B Vitamins.

Do not overexercise.

I think what is missing is more fat soluble Vitamins, like A (Beef Liver, once a week, twice max. I recommend getting from a butcher and not supermarket. Nothing worse then supermarket liver ?), K (Swiss Chard, Kale; eaten twice-three times a week; eaten with appropriate fat; they should be boiled very well for at least 20 minutes - 30 minutes), K2 (Thorne MK-4 supplement without MK-7 or D3; from Amazon or eBay); and less Vitamin D daily... I think it is too much. 1,000-4,000 UI is good I reckon. Proper ratios are important.
Vitamin K2 I think is really what you need, along with the other stuff I mentioned. I recommend MK-4 5-30mg daily, MK-4 is very safe, should be eaten with fat, ideally on a different meal then Vitamin D3 as they compete for absorption like all fat soluble Vitamins.

Do you drink coffee? Do you eat red meat? What is your diet?
 
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xeliex

xeliex

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Thank you both.

I am 5'6'' 200lbs.
Quite muscular but also fat.
I looked lean at 165-180 lbs.
Current fat is all over I'd say. Definitely in torso but also balanced throughout the body. Hx of childhood onset and ongoing gynecomastia that improves in appearance with weight loss.

I abused myself from around 22 to 37 yo with very low calorie diets, carb cycling, orthorexia, and intermittent fasting and didn't listen to my body. I was lean and muscular but unhealthy.

Current intake is around 2500 kcals per day with 100g protein and 250-350g carbs with fat around 50-80g fat... Meeting most micronutrient RDA. I take B-complex and recently thiamine. Aspirin few times a week. Progesterone when feeling stressed with anxiety.

No major new stressors but I am the sensitive type and work with dialysis patients daily.

PeskyPeat thank you. It very well might be serotonin aggravating spasms and twitching. Cyproheptadine seems to be the only thing that helps. I am usually hypotensive, so Losartan might be risky.

I can't seem to tolerate collagen more than once or twice a week. It seems to amp me up and I can't sleep when I take it. GABA didn't seem to do anything for me. Niacinamide as well, nothing different noticed.

It could very well be serotonin as I can't eat mushrooms, raw carrots, too much fruits, etc... They seem to induce a worsening of whole body twitching.

Thanks again you both. More input is appreciated.
 
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xeliex

xeliex

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If you are on Thyroid, consume more sugar and B Vitamins. I can elaborate on good sources for B Vitamins.

Do not overexercise.

I think what is missing is more fat soluble Vitamins, like A (Beef Liver, once a week, twice max. I recommend getting from a butcher and not supermarket. Nothing worse then supermarket liver ?), K (Swiss Chard, Kale; eaten twice-three times a week; eaten with appropriate fat; they should be boiled very well for at least 20 minutes - 30 minutes), K2 (Thorne MK-4 supplement without MK-7 or D3; from Amazon or eBay); and less Vitamin D daily... I think it is too much. 1,000-4,000 UI is good I reckon. Proper ratios are important.
Vitamin K2 I think is really what you need, along with the other stuff I mentioned. I recommend MK-4 5-30mg daily, MK-4 is very safe, should be eaten with fat, ideally on a different meal then Vitamin D3 as they compete for absorption like all fat soluble Vitamins.

Do you drink coffee? Do you eat red meat? What is your diet?
I think you might be onto something.

After these labs, I stopped D and bumped up K, A and E vitamins. Sadly, they all irritate my gut, so I apply them topically. I think I will get back to Estroban with more K2 on alternating days or different times.

I drink one coffee cup per day, sometimes two. Today I had 2 and I am filled with joy ? but I hope I can sleep.

I've been craving red meat and seafood like a mofo and honoring my craving. I feel better with red meat and I am not sure why. Perhaps I overdid Peatarian inspired eating with too much dairy and not enough iron /methionine...

My tongue also has been scalloped for years and did not improve with thyroid.

I bumped up Tyromax to 2 grains per day. Will continue b-complex daily with extra thiamine and B12.

I find it strange that my high D levels and high dairy consumption did not suppress PTH. Perhaps this is due to the high TSH stimulating the entirety of the pituitary hormones.
 

PeskyPeater

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Sounds like estrogen is hijacking your pituitary and thyroid function, increasing the HPA activity that is probably giving that effect on PTH. Pregnenolone seems good for that with thyroid
 

PeskyPeater

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in any case low blood pressure could be from a low dopamine tone by high serotonin dominance. using niacinamide will help increase the enzymes needed to breakdown serotonin. I find using simply ginger root and licorice and cinnamon helpful too to reduce serotonin and increase dopamine
 

Peatful

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Thank you both.

I am 5'6'' 200lbs.
Quite muscular but also fat.
I looked lean at 165-180 lbs.
Current fat is all over I'd say. Definitely in torso but also balanced throughout the body. Hx of childhood onset and ongoing gynecomastia that improves in appearance with weight loss.

I abused myself from around 22 to 37 yo with very low calorie diets, carb cycling, orthorexia, and intermittent fasting and didn't listen to my body. I was lean and muscular but unhealthy.

Current intake is around 2500 kcals per day with 100g protein and 250-350g carbs with fat around 50-80g fat... Meeting most micronutrient RDA. I take B-complex and recently thiamine. Aspirin few times a week. Progesterone when feeling stressed with anxiety.

No major new stressors but I am the sensitive type and work with dialysis patients daily.

PeskyPeat thank you. It very well might be serotonin aggravating spasms and twitching. Cyproheptadine seems to be the only thing that helps. I am usually hypotensive, so Losartan might be risky.

I can't seem to tolerate collagen more than once or twice a week. It seems to amp me up and I can't sleep when I take it. GABA didn't seem to do anything for me. Niacinamide as well, nothing different noticed.

It could very well be serotonin as I can't eat mushrooms, raw carrots, too much fruits, etc... They seem to induce a worsening of whole body twitching.

Thanks again you both. More input is appreciated.
This is relevant data.

So you do have “stressed with anxiety”.

You’re a dialysis nurse?

Don’t ever underestimate the damage you did for 15 years restricting and over exercising.





I will hopefully reach out to you when I get some space.
Just got home.
 

PeskyPeater

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I find coffee too stimulating and irritate the gut, it increases my tinnitus. Coca cola seems a good alternative the coca extract lowers inflammation of the gut said dr Peat.
 
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xeliex

xeliex

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Thank you, I am a registered dietitian.

Thanks for the liver buying tips. I've been struggling with supermarket liver. I come from a culture that eats fresh raw liver, but I wouldn't eat that in the US due to the time it takes to get to the plate.
 
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xeliex

xeliex

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This is relevant data.

So you do have “stressed with anxiety”.

You’re a dialysis nurse?

Don’t ever underestimate the damage you did for 15 years restricting and over exercising.





I will hopefully reach out to you when I get some space.
Just got home.
Not really stressed... Rare anxious spells that improve with progesterone, bag breathing, or pause breathing.
 

Diokine

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Have you measured ACTH, or AM/PM salivary cortisol? Thyroid hormone will increase turnover of corticosteroids and can progress to frank or subliminal adrenal insufficiency. This can present with hyperparathyroidism and hypercalcemia, hyponatremia, and hyperkalemia.

THE HYPERCALCEMIA OF ADRENAL INSUFFICIENCY
 
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xeliex

xeliex

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Have you measured ACTH, or AM/PM salivary cortisol? Thyroid hormone will increase turnover of corticosteroids and can progress to frank or subliminal adrenal insufficiency. This can present with hyperparathyroidism and hypercalcemia, hyponatremia, and hyperkalemia.

THE HYPERCALCEMIA OF ADRENAL INSUFFICIENCY
Thank you.

I have not checked acth, but morning salivary cortisol was in range so was free testosterone. Sodium and potassium labs have been fine along with phosphorus. Calcium (non ionized) also normal but upper range. Will look into that, it's interesting.
 

liam183

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Lower your D supplementation and add Vitamin K. Mai Ya tea is great to make for lowering prolactin. I add ginger, ginseng, and gelatin in mine to aid digestion, lower inflammation, and lower serotonin. Vitamin E and B6 (p5p) are also good for lowering prolactin.
 
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xeliex

xeliex

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Lower your D supplementation and add Vitamin K. Mai Ya tea is great to make for lowering prolactin. I add ginger, ginseng, and gelatin in mine to aid digestion, lower inflammation, and lower serotonin. Vitamin E and B6 (p5p) are also good for lowering prolactin.
Yes, thank you. Gave it a break and now restarting at 1000 to 2000 iu daily vitamin D and using Estroban topically almost daily. As well as alternating Idealabs tocovit and K2 on different days. I used to take p5p daily - but now taking B-complex plus extra thiamine.
 

Risingfire

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42 yo male with hx of suspected hypothyroidism. Obese with BMI of 32.

I had been taking 1 grain of desiccated thyroid (tyromax) and 8000 iu of vitamin D daily.
Peaty(ish) diet for about 5 years with hx of fasting, dieting, extreme fitness, etc..
Calcium intake of around 1000mg + per day.

The pituitary feedback seems to be messed up. With that much vitamin D and adequate calcium, the PTH should be low.

My hypothyroid symptoms are much improved, but not perfect. I can't seem to lose weight. My morning temps are low but daytime temps are normal.

I ran these tests because I have been having whole body twitching at times, to rule out hypercalcemic cause.

Any guiding comments would be appreciated.


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Hi @xeliex it seems like you are pretty hypo. Keep checking those morning temps and pulse. Prolactin is very high. Seems like you have a high amount of tissue estrogen. Are you consuming pufa's?
 
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xeliex

xeliex

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Hi @xeliex it seems like you are pretty hypo. Keep checking those morning temps and pulse. Prolactin is very high. Seems like you have a high amount of tissue estrogen. Are you consuming pufa's?
Thank you. That's the plan. Upped my Tyromax to 2 grains few weeks ago and now to 2.25 grains per day.

I've been mindful of PUFA for about 5 years, but had been super heavy on fish oil in my younger orthorexic and fitness obsessed days.

I sent a nail analysis sample, but for minerals only - awaiting the results that might help with the big picture here.

Edit: My sister had a large benign brain tumor removed years ago - I hope that stuff isn't familial and a tumor messing up my pituitary.
 

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