TSH Levels And Ray Peat Diet

[NHF]

Hi All,

This is my first post on here. I'm a 32 years old male and I follow a healthy diet lifestyle a couple of years ago (without sugars just from complex carbs sources, 1:1 Protein Carbs ratio and around 25-30% healthy fats), and I workout 3-4 times a week (High intensity Weight Training) and I am 190 cm / 84 Kg

A month ago my hair thinned out all over my head and it started falling out rapidly so I first thought it could be Telogen Effluvium so I went to a dermatologist and he confirmed it's not a TE in my case but a male pattern baldness (Androgenetic Alopecia).
Long story short, he prescribed Finasteride (1 mg) for me but I am not willing to take it even if I would go completely bald.

I came through Ray Peat forums through Danny Roddy youtube videos and would like your assistance please.
I've done a blood test and here below are the results:



After reading some of RP advices, I think that his diet won't work for me because my TSH levels are already low and this only works for hypothyroidism (High TSH Levels), is that true?

Thank you,

 

[somuch4food]

I also have a low TSH. Despite having a history of poor energy. I'm now thinking the hypothyroidism described by Peat is broader than that of medicine. It's mostly related to a broken metabolism/hormone imbalance. The advice I would stress to you is that there is no Ray Peat diet. After burning myself trying to implement a Peat diet, I turned back to my old diet and started an iterative and intuitive approach to identify my own personal issues. I keep what I learned from Peat in the back of mind and most of the time I come to a conclusion I can relate it to some ideas Ray Peat wrote about. I have found my body reacts fast to what I ingest and am listening to it while trying to figure out a new diet that will sustain my health.

What are the healthy fats you mention in your post?

 

[NHF]

What are the healthy fats you mention in your post?

Thank you for your reply!

My healthy fats sources are like:
- Avocados
- Unsoaked Nuts (Almonds, Walnuts, Cashews, Peanuts)
- Milk
- Cheese
- Olive oil and Olives
- Egg yolks
- Fish oil Supplement

As you mentioned, coming up with a diet from what RP suggested is very difficult and seems no logical to me:
-OJ + Sugar
-Milk + Sugar
-Coffee + Sugar
-Cheese
-Ice Cream
- Some Fruits

it's very confusing!!

 

[danielbb]

The advice I would stress to you is that there is no Ray Peat diet. After burning myself trying to implement a Peat diet, I turned back to my old diet and started an iterative and intuitive approach to identify my own personal issues. I keep what I learned from Peat in the back of mind and most of the time I come to a conclusion I can relate it to some ideas Ray Peat wrote about. I have found my body reacts fast to what I ingest and am listening to it while trying to figure out a new diet that will sustain my health.

I've come to the same conclusions. The golden nuggets I have gotten from Ray I am grateful. He confirmed my own discovery that there is no problem with sugar at least as it applies to me. Sugar in all its forms has healed me. I believe him when he says things like PUFA, iron, and soy are toxic because when I eliminated these things, my body healed as well. Regards to diet, diet optimization, and how to get lean, my own system works far better than his (or at least those promoting his concepts) and at least as it applies to me. Maybe my system only works for me and I am ok with that. I've heard Ray say many times he does not promote a dietary system but people have derived things from what he has said and created a system for themselves based on that nonetheless.

When I write here, I try to post the caveat that I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I believe people can out-think themselves and create stress and worry for themselves where it does not need to be. I believe supplements are unnecessary and basically driven by clever marketing and over-worrying about things that can repair themselves in reasonable time with reasonable eating strategies and with moderate exercise like walking. Most of the secret is switching from processed food to whole foods that do not contain toxins like PUFA. Only an individual can decide what types of food they like and what they enjoy and what types of reactions (positive or negative) they may experience with a given substance. No outside source can determine that for them.

 

[charlie]

Sugar in all its forms has healed me. I believe him when he says things like PUFA, iron, and soy are toxic because when I eliminated these things, my body healed as well.

Hi Daniel, do you eat red meat?

 

[somuch4food]

Thank you for your reply!

My healthy fats sources are like:
- Avocados
- Unsoaked Nuts (Almonds, Walnuts, Cashews, Peanuts)
- Milk
- Cheese
- Olive oil and Olives
- Egg yolks
- Fish oil Supplement

As you mentioned, coming up with a diet from what RP suggested is very difficult and seems no logical to me:
-OJ + Sugar
-Milk + Sugar
-Coffee + Sugar
-Cheese
-Ice Cream
- Some Fruits

it's very confusing!!

That's what I thought also when I first started trying to implement his ideas. It also did not help me much.

The fish oil supplement is probably the first thing I would drop. You won't find many proponents of it around here.

The big ideas I retain from Peat is that:

Carbs should be favored, some do better on simple sugars others on starch. That's for you to figure out. He's not a fan of grains, but I still consume them or I wouldn't be able to eat enough calories.

Proteins don't need to be high around 100-150 g should be enough unless very active. Animal proteins should be favored. Liver and seafood from time to time.

PUFA oils are bad from my personal experience. Whole food PUFA as in nuts, avocados and seeds don't seem to bother me as much. I have yet to come to a conclusion about fat consumption.

Carotenoids can be bad for you. I have discovered that many colorful fruits and vegetables have a negative effect on me.

Apart from dropping fish oil, I would probably focus on increasing carbs a ratio of 3-4g of carbs per 1g of proteins is better in my opinion.

@danielbb I love your comments. I've seen you mention this many times already. I think 1 year from now I will probably doing a very similar diet to yours. I'm starting to rule out many things as I experiment and listen to my body. I still eat processed foods, but keep being disappointed by most of them and slowly I'm cooking more and more. I like your theory of separating fatty and carby meals and will probably try it in the future.

 

[Waremu]

My healthy fats sources are like:
- Avocados
- Unsoaked Nuts (Almonds, Walnuts, Cashews, Peanuts)
- Milk
- Cheese
- Olive oil and Olives
- Egg yolks
- Fish oil Supplement

Those are not all Ray Peat recommended foods. Ray Peat does not recommend nuts, for the most part, and he only says olive oil in very limited amounts is okay, because it can easily add a lot of PUFA to a total diet. With those foods alone, you could easily be eating a higher PUFA diet than the range Ray would recommend. You could have a lot of issues with gut serotonin and endotoxin if you're eating a lot of starches and not handling it well. I would try consuming at least a 2:1 carb to protein ratio. When I was my sickest I would consume 3:1 and it benefitted me greatly. I would also try to make sure I get enough of methyl donors and supportive nutrients which are important for DNA repair, especially for those with MTHFR issues. Ray Peat isn't very concerned with MTHFR, as far as I know, but thats where I diverge with him in what we agree on. But I work it into my diet in a 'Peaterian' context. (Most of the foods he recommends are important for people with MTHFR issues anyway) I would focus on: a favorable carb to protein ratio, staying as low PUFA as possible, getting at least one gram of protein per kg, getting at least 5-8 egg yolk equivalents of choline/betaine per day, at least 1-2 x the RDA of folate per day, a good calcium to phosphorus ratio, molybdenum metabolism for proper sulfur metabolism (especially if you eat higher protein, the need for this mineral is likely increased), plenty of all the B vitamins, and a high amount of riboflavin from food especially will likely be helpful, enough salt to taste with food and especially with liquids, and around 1-2 grams of gelatin for every 10 grams of protein in diet (150 grams of protein balanced with 15-30 grams of gelatin) is a good range to shoot for with regards to gelatin; Having some zinc and Vitamin B-12 spread out with each of your meals, along with choline and some folate is ideal as well. I shoot for 4-5 meals per day, every 3-4 hours. Enough calcium and pottasium as well. I have aimed to not go above 3 grams of PUFA for many years now and have been even lower than that for a few years. It took a few years for me to eat very low PUFA to see more benefits in no longer having shedding, but getting my methylation in check helped too. The only oil I would use would be hydrogenated coconut oil or MCT oil. If you have to choose to have a small amount of nuts, macademia nuts are one of the lower PUFA nuts. I do not eat nuts, however. If you do not handle milk well, try A-2 milk or goats milk and the things above. Daily carrots and maybe flowers of sulfur could help with that. I found that useful. I consume some skimmed A-2 milk, but mostly raw skimmed goat milk. Most of my choline comes from milk. If you have to have starches and handle them well, then well cooked adzuki beans or sprouted lentils are probably some of the most nutritious lower PUFA sources (soaked, sprouted, and well cooked in a pressure cooker takes care of most of the anti-nutrients). Well cooked potatoes are okay as well as white rice, but has less nutrition and add empty nutrition for the added PUFA. I would dump shampoos or anything you put on your head that is made from a lab/factory. Oranges are a good source of calcium and folate, etc. Get some of the fat soluble vitamins as well.

 

[somuch4food]

How much calories are you averaging in a day? I did the most damage to my body by not eating enough.

A guy your size that works out multiple times a week would probably easily need 3500+ cal a day. If you gain weight, it's not the calories. It's either stress from lifestyle, a food intolerance or bad food quality/combinations.

 

[danielbb]

Hi Daniel, do you eat red meat?

Yes of course. I like just about all meat. I am not a big fish-lover guy due to personal taste but love things like shrimp, lobster, clams, and oysters.

I am deadly serious about testing everything I ingest and working closely with my Doctor and measuring biofeedback like weight, lipids, blood pressure, among other things. If I thought red meat was making my heart condition worse, it would be gone today. My health has been completely restored by basically going to whole foods and moderate exercise. Unlimited energy and stamina among other positive biomarkers.

 

[danielbb]

@charlie - I realize you were asking a rhetorical question there about red meat. When I mention PUFA or things like iron, I am talking about substances like vegetable or seed oil added to processed food. With respect to iron, I am talking about the stuff they use to enrich flour, for example. I am not going to stew about what may be found in meat or other whole-food sources I may enjoy. I hope you were not trying to embarrass me. I just do not feel like typing all that out each time I mention PUFA or iron.

 

[charlie]

@charlie - I realize you were asking a rhetorical question there about red meat. When I mention PUFA or things like iron, I am talking about substances like vegetable or seed oil added to processed food. With respect to iron, I am talking about the stuff they use to enrich flour, for example. I am not going to stew about what may be found in meat or other whole-food sources I may enjoy. I hope you were not trying to embarrass me. I just do not feel like typing all that out each time I mention PUFA or iron.

Aaah ok, just was trying to clarify if you meant iron enriched foods.

I have actually been eating this way for a few months. Mostly fruit at first, but now have added steaks and hamburger meat in, but have been eating them alone with nothing else. I am now gonna test a bit of honey, or berries like you mentioned in the other thread with meat/fat.

Dr. Morse said meat and starch is probably the worst food combination that can be made, I totally agree with him on this. He said everything goes wrong with that combination.

Sincerely appreciate your posting this information. You have witnessed to what I have discovered for myself that is working.

 

[Lee Simeon]

Aaah ok, just was trying to clarify if you meant iron enriched foods.

I have actually been eating this way for a few months. Mostly fruit at first, but now have added steaks and hamburger meat in, but have been eating them alone with nothing else. I am now gonna test a bit of honey, or berries like you mentioned in the other thread with meat/fat.

Dr. Morse said meat and starch is probably the worst food combination that can be made, I totally agree with him on this. He said everything goes wrong with that combination.

Sincerely appreciate your posting this information. You have witnessed to what I have discovered for myself that is working.

What is your main calcium sources ATM?

 

[charlie]

What is your main calcium sources ATM?

I do not have one at the moment.

 

[lampofred]

I think low TSH along with hypothyroidism is a sign that you are under a lot of stress. If your serotonin is high, you might not recognize that you are under a lot of stress because serotonin dissociates your mind from your body. It's hard to say what exactly could be causing you stress because it's different for everyone (for example, the same job might feel like a dream opportunity for some but like slave labor for others), but doing things that lower your prolactin (such as drinking coffee, taking colder showers, avoiding milk for the time being, avoiding alcohol, etc.) tends to help you get into touch with your intuition to help you figure out what you need to do.

 

[NHF]

Thank you all for your great contributions, i really appreciate it.
İ would like to mention few more things in which could answer your questions:

1- Three months ago i started taking cipralex 10mg (lexapro) again. İ took it before for 1 year then i stopped it cold turkey. İ am now reducing it to 5mg a day so i can greadually stop it few weeks later.

2- i always feel cold hands and feets (no clue why) but almost most of the day.

3- i always feel my stomach bloated specially after eating grains.

4- i feel shortness of breath and that was the mean reason why i started taking cipralex once again but it didn't help at all. İ still feel this even after taking it for three months.

5- i eat around 2500 - 3000 calories a day, i don't count actually, it's just an estimation

 

[somuch4food]

I think low TSH along with hypothyroidism is a sign that you are under a lot of stress. If your serotonin is high, you might not recognize that you are under a lot of stress because serotonin dissociates your mind from your body.

That could make sense in my case. I was a shy kid with anxiety from social situations. I also think I was stressing my body with my diet growing up with a SAD diet full of PUFAs.

As I unravel food sensitivities, body reactions become clearer. Before I was mostly numb to everything and didn't feel intense emotions which fits the serotonin state.

I noticed last week that I'm now attracted to flowers in pots where as before I thought of them as a waste of money.

 

[danielbb]

Aaah ok, just was trying to clarify if you meant iron enriched foods.

I have actually been eating this way for a few months. Mostly fruit at first, but now have added steaks and hamburger meat in, but have been eating them alone with nothing else. I am now gonna test a bit of honey, or berries like you mentioned in the other thread with meat/fat.

Dr. Morse said meat and starch is probably the worst food combination that can be made, I totally agree with him on this. He said everything goes wrong with that combination.

Sincerely appreciate your posting this information. You have witnessed to what I have discovered for myself that is working.

Excellent. Starting to build evidence here that we may be collectively on to something. I know for a fact my wife and I are getting results by simply not mixing high fat sources with high carb sources. Each and in themselves are excellent fuels sources as long as its not pufa. I believe the science I have posted backs up at least our anecdotal experience and also explains why I was having trouble with milk and other substances like ice cream and chocolate. Still love those things but try and use portion control if I have the urge. @ecstatichamster also has been posting positive results. Thanks for your feedback @charlie !

 

[danielbb]

@danielbb I love your comments. I've seen you mention this many times already. I think 1 year from now I will probably doing a very similar diet to yours. I'm starting to rule out many things as I experiment and listen to my body. I still eat processed foods, but keep being disappointed by most of them and slowly I'm cooking more and more. I like your theory of separating fatty and carby meals and will probably try it in the future.

Thank you kindly @somuch4food. When switching to whole food sources, I noticed that my taste-buds changed over a month or two of eating clean (e.g., no processed food) where I no longer craved those things (e.g., junk/processed food) that made me sick in the first place (e.g., serious heart disease among a host of other things). I make no apologies for what I like to eat but at the same time am no longer willing to wreck my body simply so I can order food over the telephone. I've also found that preparing food, cleaning-up after preparation, and walking are excellent for healing the mind. Notably, depression. I don't know if you saw my comments in another thread, but I posted a recipe for no-fat cinnabon's that I invented (the no-fat part). People who have tried them are going nuts over them and they are not like normal processed food that mixes sugar and fat and likely contain PUFA. These regulate hunger well so you start to feel full about half way through 1 roll. They provide clean energy for hours. My wife likes to eat about 1/2 of a roll whereas I am fully satisfied after one roll. Cinnabon's are almost 900 calories and 37 grams of fat per roll. Mine are about 1/2 that amount of calories with 1g of fat per roll (37 times less) (e.g., mostly from two eggs and some 1% milk used to mix the dough).

 

[somuch4food]

Thank you kindly @somuch4food. When switching to whole food sources, I noticed that my taste-buds changed over a month or two of eating clean (e.g., no processed food) where I no longer craved those things (e.g., junk/processed food) that made me sick in the first place (e.g., serious heart disease among a host of other things). I make no apologies for what I like to eat but at the same time am no longer willing to wreck my body simply so I can order food over the telephone. I've also found that preparing food, cleaning-up after preparation, and walking are excellent for healing the mind. Notably, depression. I don't know if you saw my comments in another thread, but I posted a recipe for no-fat cinnabon's that I invented (the no-fat part). People who have tried them are going nuts over them and they are not like normal processed food that mixes sugar and fat and likely contain PUFA. These regulate hunger well so you start to feel full about half way through 1 roll. They provide clean energy for hours. My wife likes to eat about 1/2 of a roll whereas I am fully satisfied after one roll. Cinnabon's are almost 900 calories and 37 grams of fat per roll. Mine are about 1/2 that amount of calories with 1g of fat per roll (37 times less) (e.g., mostly from two eggs and some 1% milk used to mix the dough).

I saw it and it seems tasty, but I'm too busy atm to try it. I would have to adapt it as my son has an egg allergy.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I started making bread again. Just set up a loaf that will soak all night and maybe be ready tomorrow. Then I can bake it. Nothing that takes any effort really and will make the best bread and healthy due to the long soaking time, with zero-iron flour.