Tryptophan

[Dante1000]

I'm new the forum and need a lil help. I've read and listened to videos of Mr. Peat talking about tryptophan and cysteine in muscle meats. Yet, Mr. Peat drinks milk. Which, has tryptophan as well.
I've recently started consuming goat's milk and gelatin as my primary protein sources.
My question is, why is tryptophan bad in meat, but ok in milk?

Thanks in advance to anyone who clears up my confusion.

Sincerely,
Dant'e

 

[Elie]

I recall something about high glycine intake possible countering the effect of tryptophane. Same with Niacinamide and coffee. I believe that milk has more glycine than meat?

 

[redsun]

I recall something about high glycine intake possible countering the effect of tryptophane. Same with Niacinamide and coffee. I believe that milk has more glycine than meat?

Not even close. The glycine content in dairy is nothing compared to meats.

I'm new the forum and need a lil help. I've read and listened to videos of Mr. Peat talking about tryptophan and cysteine in muscle meats. Yet, Mr. Peat drinks milk. Which, has tryptophan as well.
I've recently started consuming goat's milk and gelatin as my primary protein sources.
My question is, why is tryptophan bad in meat, but ok in milk?

Thanks in advance to anyone who clears up my confusion.

Sincerely,
Dant'e

Its not bad. You can make niacin from tryptophan. Yeh peat says a lot of things, sometimes they make sense sometimes not. If milk didnt have so much tryptophan Peat would have pellagra since milk and the other protein source he consumes (except liver I think consumes) are very low in niacin and his muscle meat intake from what I understand is also low so niacin from meat is lacking as well.

But I implore you keep protein varied. Dont just go ham on dairy and gelatin and excessively lower meat intake, it is a very good for many reasons. Ideally, get meat, dairy, and eggs in the diet as they all have their own things to offer. Meat being most consumed, dairy second, eggs third and seafood third.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Trytophan is an abomination. Haidut has said it himself.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Everyone here would be much better off following a low sulfur ammino diet.

You want some protein mabey have a beef shank or scallops.

 

[Elie]

Not even close. The glycine content in dairy is nothing compared to meats.

Thanks for the correction

Its not bad. You can make niacin from tryptophan. Yeh peat says a lot of things, sometimes they make sense sometimes not. If milk didnt have so much tryptophan Peat would have pellagra since milk and the other protein source he consumes (except liver I think consumes) are very low in niacin and his muscle meat intake from what I understand is also low so niacin from meat is lacking as well.

But I implore you keep protein varied. Dont just go ham on dairy and gelatin and excessively lower meat intake, it is a very good for many reasons. Ideally, get meat, dairy, and eggs in the diet as they all have their own things to offer. Meat being most consumed, dairy second, eggs third and seafood third.

 

[redsun]

Everyone here would be much better off following a low sulfur ammino diet.

You want some protein mabey have a beef shank or scallops.

Who needs glutathione anyways am i rite?

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Who needs glutathione anyways am i rite?

If you actually read peats work you will throw out trytophan as much as possible. I atleast have a scoop of pea protein with my meat, you could try gelatin if it agrees with you.

Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

"lthough several amino acids can be acutely or chronically toxic, even lethal, when too much is eaten, tryptophan is the only amino acid that is also carcinogenic. (It can also produce a variety of toxic metabolites, and it is very susceptible to damage by radiation.) Since tryptophan is the precursor of serotonin, the amount of tryptophan in the diet can have important effects on the way the organism responds to stress, and the way it develops, adapts, and ages.

"When rats were fed a diet completely lacking tryptophan for a short period, or a diet containing only one fourth of the “normal” amount for a more prolonged period, the results were surprising: They kept the ability to reproduce up to the age of 36 months (versus 17 months for the rats on the usual diet), and both their average longevity and their maximum longevity increased significantly. They looked and acted like younger rats. (A methionine-poor diet also has dramatic longevity-increasing effects.)"

"
On the tryptophan-poor diet, the amount of serotonin in the brain decreased. When brain serotonin decreases, the level of testosterone in male animals increases. More than 20 years ago, a chemical (p-chlorophenylalanine) that inhibits serotonin synthesis was found to tremendously increase libido.

In old age, the amount of serotonin in the brain increases. This undoubtedly is closely related to the relative inability to turn off cortisol production that is characteristic of old age"

Danny Roddy "What's the worse thing in the diet outside of PUFA"

Haidut "Tryptophan"

Keep eating those egg whites lol

 

[redsun]

If you actually read peats work you will throw out trytophan as much as possible. I atleast have a scoop of pea protein with my meat, you could try gelatin if it agrees with you.

Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

"lthough several amino acids can be acutely or chronically toxic, even lethal, when too much is eaten, tryptophan is the only amino acid that is also carcinogenic. (It can also produce a variety of toxic metabolites, and it is very susceptible to damage by radiation.) Since tryptophan is the precursor of serotonin, the amount of tryptophan in the diet can have important effects on the way the organism responds to stress, and the way it develops, adapts, and ages.

"When rats were fed a diet completely lacking tryptophan for a short period, or a diet containing only one fourth of the “normal” amount for a more prolonged period, the results were surprising: They kept the ability to reproduce up to the age of 36 months (versus 17 months for the rats on the usual diet), and both their average longevity and their maximum longevity increased significantly. They looked and acted like younger rats. (A methionine-poor diet also has dramatic longevity-increasing effects.)"

"
On the tryptophan-poor diet, the amount of serotonin in the brain decreased. When brain serotonin decreases, the level of testosterone in male animals increases. More than 20 years ago, a chemical (p-chlorophenylalanine) that inhibits serotonin synthesis was found to tremendously increase libido.

In old age, the amount of serotonin in the brain increases. This undoubtedly is closely related to the relative inability to turn off cortisol production that is characteristic of old age"

Danny Roddy "What's the worse thing in the diet outside of PUFA"

Haidut "Tryptophan"

Keep eating those egg whites lol

I was talking in relation to sulfur aminos, which you were saying to restrict. Methionine when converted to cysteine and cysteine itself is a component of glutathione.

I haven't eaten eggs in so long, never crave them so incorrect assumption lol.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

I was talking in relation to sulfur aminos, which you were saying to restrict. Methionine when converted to cysteine and cysteine itself is a component of glutathione.

I haven't eaten eggs in so long, never crave them so incorrect assumption lol.

Or just get glutathione directly from lightly steam broccli packed with sulfur, glutathione with minimal bad amminos. but do you

 

[redsun]

Or just get glutathione directly from lightly steam broccli packed with sulfur, glutathione with minimal bad amminos. but do you

I don't think you need much sulfur amino acids in the end, but yes I forgot things like broccoli do have some GSH.

 

[rockarolla]

Dietary tryptophan deficiency and its supplementation compromises inflammatory mechanisms and disease resistance in a teleost fish
Dietary tryptophan deficiency and its supplementation compromises inflammatory mechanisms and disease resistance in a teleost fish - Scientific Reports

Tryptophan participates on several physiological mechanisms of the neuroendocrine-immune network and plays a critical role in macrophages and lymphocytes function. This study intended to evaluate the modulatory effects of dietary tryptophan on the European seabass (Dicentrarchus labrax) immune status, inflammatory response and disease resistance to Photobacterium damselae piscicida. A tryptophan deficient diet (NTRP); a control diet (CTRL); and two other diets supplemented with tryptophan at 0.13% (TRP13) and 0.17% (TRP17) of feed weight were formulated. Fish were sampled at 2 and 4 weeks of feeding and the remaining were i.p. injected with Phdp (3 × 106 cfu/fish) at 4 weeks and the inflammatory response (at 4, 24, 48 and 72 hours post-infection) as well as survival were evaluated.

Results suggest that fish immune status was not altered in a tryptophan deficient scenario whereas in response to an inflammatory insult, plasma cortisol levels increased and the immune cell response was compromised, which translated in a lower disease resistance. When dietary tryptophan was offered 30% above its requirement level, plasma cortisol increased and, in response to bacterial infection, a decrease in lymphocytes, monocytes/macrophages and several immune-related genes was observed, also compromising at some degree fish disease resistance.

Bacterial challenge

To evaluate the effect of a diet deficient and supplemented with tryptophan during a bacterial infection, 60 fish from each group (20/replicate) were inoculated with Phdp and their mortality followed for 3 weeks (Fig. 1).

Significant differences were found only found between NTRP and CTRL (X2 = 0.004), presenting the tryptophan deficient diet the highest cumulative mortality (35.71%) followed by fish fed TRP 17 (21.05%). Fish fed both CTRL and TRP13 presented a similar and lowest cumulative mortality (12.07 and 12.28%, accordingly).

...

The overall results indicate that tryptophan supplementation seems to prime immune suppression and tolerance signals, in the highest supplementation level tested, most likely via higher plasma cortisol concentration observed after 4 weeks of feeding. While Hoseini and Hosseini36 discuss that tryptophan supplementation could enhance osmotic shock tolerance due to its immune tolerance role, our results shown in fact, a tendency for a higher disease susceptibility was observed when tryptophan was supplemented at the highest level, while no differences were observed regarding the control diet and the mid-term supplementation level.

In conclusion, results from the present study suggest that both dietary tryptophan deficiency and supplementation may compromise the inflammatory mechanisms and disease resistance.

In a tryptophan deficiency scenario seabass immune status was not altered but in response to an inflammatory insult, plasma cortisol levels were significantly increased and consequently, the immune cell response was compromised, finally weakening fish disease resistance to Phdp.

On the other hand, when dietary tryptophan is offered 26% above requirement level, cortisol levels rise despite no additional stress factor is inflicted on fish. Moreover, in response to bacterial infection, a decrease in lymphocytes, monocytes/macrophages and several immune-related genes is observed, eventually compromising at some level fish disease resistance.

 

[Peatness]

55:40 - Ray on the importance of protein, albumin, proteolytic enzymes, easy to overdo the protein lowering thyroid function, gelatin, tryptophan

#55: Bioenergetic Nutrition Basics | "The Ray Peat Diet" | Appetite and Metabolism with Ray Peat​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06rVi8iXfI

 

[Lord Cola]

55:40 - Ray on the importance of protein, albumin, proteolytic enzymes, easy to overdo the protein lowering thyroid function, gelatin, tryptophan

#55: Bioenergetic Nutrition Basics | "The Ray Peat Diet" | Appetite and Metabolism with Ray Peat​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06rVi8iXfI

How can we tell if we are deficient in tryptophan, if the main symptom of tryptophan deficiency, bad digestion, is the symptom of so many other possible issues?

People without much knowledge of how their bodies function could interpret Peat as saying tryptophan should be avoided if you're not a growing child, and it sounds like that in some of his writings, but his view on tryptophan sounds more nuanced in this interview. It seems to me like even an adult may need quite a bit of tryptophan and/or other "inflammatory" amino acids. My digestion seriously slows down if I go too long eating less than three quarts of milk or similar amounts of amino acids from other sources each day. No amount of gelatin can compensate for this; gelatin also needs to be eaten proportionately to avoid inflammation.

 

[Peatness]

How can we tell if we are deficient in tryptophan, if the main symptom of tryptophan deficiency, bad digestion, is the symptom of so many other possible issues?

People without much knowledge of how their bodies function could interpret Peat as saying tryptophan should be avoided if you're not a growing child, and it sounds like that in some of his writings, but his view on tryptophan sounds more nuanced in this interview. It seems to me like even an adult may need quite a bit of tryptophan and/or other "inflammatory" amino acids. My digestion seriously slows down if I go too long eating less than three quarts of milk or similar amounts of amino acids from other sources each day. No amount of gelatin can compensate for this; gelatin also needs to be eaten proportionately to avoid inflammation.

I agree. I too find it difficult to balance my protein intake on just milk and gelatin.