Tryptophan Is Underrated, And Causes Most Issues

Cirion

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
3,731
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
All I know is I still don't feel well. If I do an iron test and find out that I'm actually around ~50, I plan to supplement it, because obviously low ferritin isn't doing me good (if it's low). Now if I come to find out it's HIGH and I feel bad, that's a different story.
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
All I know is I still don't feel well. If I do an iron test and find out that I'm actually around ~50, I plan to supplement it, because obviously low ferritin isn't doing me good (if it's low). Now if I come to find out it's HIGH and I feel bad, that's a different story.

I agree, the best thing you can do is to test your levels, especially ferritin. When I tested mine, it was really high- 444 ng/ml. I got more and more energy and clear thinking as I got de-ironed. If you really plan on supplementing iron, you should get your hemoglobin checked, too. I wouldn't do iron supps personally, it's just a really bad idea to eat the raw metal. Dessicated Liver is the way to go. Plus, you get the B Vitamins to help make new Hemoglobin.
 

Cirion

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
3,731
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Ok well 444 is probably too high, even according to Douglas Ek (although I don't speak for him). He seems to not recommend higher than 200 to be safe. I can easily see how reducing it from that resulted in improved health, but he would argue that maybe you dropped it too low, possibly. I would probably also try to lower mine if I am at like 400+ ferritin for sure.

From what I have heard from Chris/Douglas and others, it's not really possible to bring your iron levels up from food alone at a reasonable pace generally unless you have the mutation that causes your iron levels to go out of control OR you eat iron fortified foods like cereal or wheat which again 100% agree are bad foods to eat. As such the only way to increase it is to supplement, at least at any sort of reasonable pace.

Like you and others have said, many of us come from a history of eating un-natural Iron containing foods and supplements though, so if there is an Iron excess, usually it's because of this and not a mutation. Not because of liver, beef, and other foods, IMO. Liver, beef, other high iron foods would only cause an excess if you have the mutation, according to Chris Masterjohn. Now if you already have an excess, they probably won't help, but if you already have an excess, it's probably time to donate blood and simply avoiding Iron heavy foods probably won't help too much.

Who knows maybe I'll test and find out I'm over 1,000 and have the mutation as well. Completely possible lol.

How many times did you have to donate blood to come down to a reasonable level?
 
Last edited:

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
Ok well 444 is probably too high, even according to Douglas Ek (although I don't speak for him). He seems to not recommend higher than 200 to be safe. I can easily see how reducing it from that resulted in improved health, but he would argue that maybe you dropped it too low, possibly. I would probably also try to lower mine if I am at like 400+ ferritin for sure.

From what I have heard from Chris/Douglas and others, it's not really possible to bring your iron levels up from food alone at a reasonable pace generally unless you have the mutation that causes your iron levels to go out of control OR you eat iron fortified foods like cereal or wheat which again 100% agree are bad foods to eat. As such the only way to increase it is to supplement, at least at any sort of reasonable pace.

Like you and others have said, many of us come from a history of eating un-natural Iron containing foods and supplements though, so if there is an Iron excess, usually it's because of this and not a mutation. Not because of liver, beef, and other foods, IMO. Liver, beef, other high iron foods would only cause an excess if you have the mutation, according to Chris Masterjohn. Now if you already have an excess, they probably won't help, but if you already have an excess, it's probably time to donate blood and simply avoiding Iron heavy foods probably won't help too much.

Who knows maybe I'll test and find out I'm over 1,000 and have the mutation as well. Completely possible lol.

How many times did you have to donate blood to come down to a reasonable level?

The estimate is about 30 ng/ml lowered with each donation. It took me about 9 months to hit 25 on one occasion (that's the standard in the Weinberg book). I think that was 7 donations and complementary iron lowering strategies. I really don't know what Douglas Ek is basing his recommendations on (maybe personal experience?) and while I respect Masterjohn, I just don't think he's looked at most of the research on iron. For me, I base my range on the research on personal experience.

Honestly, even the one time Ferritin measured 18, I felt great.
 

Cirion

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
3,731
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Maybe there is more to it than just Ferritin then?

How can we explain the discrepancy between you and others feeling good at deficiency levels, and others like Douglas (and others he has recommended to increase to around 150) feeling best at higher values?

I have no reason to suspect either you or him are lying after all.

Ultimately, it sounds like we should just experiment and see how we feel at low vs. moderate levels of Iron.
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
Maybe there is more to it than just Ferritin then?

How can we explain the discrepancy between you and others feeling good at deficiency levels, and others like Douglas (and others he has recommended to increase to around 150) feeling best at higher values?

Not totally sure. I do know that some people can have seriously high ferritin (around 1,000, and higher, which is permanent liver damage territory) and can have no noticeable symptoms. Weinberg mentions this in his book. Others will start to notice things like fatigue in the range of 200-300, maybe lower. So there absolutely is other factors going on. I am curious if those that felt bad when ferritin was below 100 had adequate hemoglobin and hemocrit. I used B complexes and iron free multi's to keep hemoglobin up while de-ironing.
 

Ron J

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2016
Messages
746
How much BCAA is effective to reduce serotonin with minimal to no dopamine reduction?
 
D

Deleted member 5487

Guest
Most cuts of beef have significantly less Tryptophan than Cow's Milk. It's still not a bad idea. but Milk is one of the richest sources of Tryptophan compared to the other AA. Eggs fairly high too.

Outside of shanks/oaxtail, what cuts are best?
 

Hgreen56

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2020
Messages
723
Even in milk, eggs.


I have become convinced that tryptophan is the number cause of most health issues.

1) It started a few weeks ago when I started eating a bunch of gelatin like 2-3tbs after each protein meal. 5x a day.
Immediately I felt better, metabolism went up, anxiety down, and I almost quit nicotine over night.

Today from 8am-4pm I had nothing but Casein powder(naked) and gelatin. No eggs, milk, meat
I have never had a more clear head in my entire life. I also had Zero fatigue and desire for nicotine. My productivity was way up.

Around 4pm I had leftover meat I suddenly could barely focus an hour later, found my self picking up tobacco dip on the way home.

Is it impractical to live off of the following to cover protein?
1) Casein Powder
2) Gelatin

with the Occasional liver/ eggs/ glass of milk
When you start to look at Tryptophan content of foods (compared to other Amino Acids), Cow's Milk and Egg Whites contain some of the highest amounts. There is significantly less tryptophan in cheese, and yogurt and cottage cheese look a lot lower as well (apparently, quite a bit of tryptophan is lost in the whey). Also, goat's milk does not appear to be as high in tryptophan.

A lot of beef products seem quite low in Tryptophan, when compared to the amount of BCAAs, Phenylalanine, and Tyrosine they contain. They also seem to contain quite a bit of Lysine, which also seems to be anti-serotonin.
per 100 gr:
yogurt 32mg mg tryptophan
cows milk: 48mg tryptophan
egg white: 99mg
cottage cheese: 138mg tryptophan
beef: 149mg tryptophan
cheese: 320mg tryptophan
naked cassein powder:1090mg tryptophan. !!!

uh... ok... cassein has the highest (22 times more than milk) and milk & yogurt the lowest (Excluding gelatin)
what are you guys talking about?
 
Last edited:

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
per 100 gr:
yogurt 32mg mg tryptophan
cows milk: 48mg tryptophan
egg white: 99mg
cottage cheese: 138mg tryptophan
beef: 149mg tryptophan
cheese: 320mg tryptophan
naked cassein powder:1090mg tryptophan. !!!

uh... ok... cassein has the highest (22 times more than milk) and milk & yogurt the lowest (Excluding gelatin)
what are you guys talking about?
Shocker..... pure protein powders are basically pure protein. So in your milk comparison, you are comparing 2 or 3 grams of protein to 99 or 100 grams.
 

Hgreen56

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2020
Messages
723
Shocker..... pure protein powders are basically pure protein. So in your milk comparison, you are comparing 2 or 3 grams of protein to 99 or 100 grams.
hm ok.. you right.

let try it again:
95 gr collagen powder = 86 gr protein = 0,0mg tryptophan
490 gr beef = 86 gr protein = 725mg tryptophan
800 gr egg white = 86 gr protein = 1000mg tryptophan
100 gr naked casseine = 86 gr protein = 1090 mg tryptophan
2400 gr skim milk = 86 gr protein = 1152mg tryptophan

what also interesting is:
95 gr collagen powder = 86 gr protein = 37mg Phosphorus
490 gr beef = 86 gr protein = 946mg Phosphorus
800 gr egg white = 86 gr protein = 120mg Phosphorus
100 gr naked casseine = 86 gr protein = 1300mg Phosphorus
2400 gr skim milk = 86 gr protein = 2424 mg Phosphorus

So if you want to make a top 5:
(1) collagen powder: lowest amount tryptophan (0.0mg) and Phosphorus (37mg)
(2) beef: tryptophan (725) Phosphorus (946mg)
(3) egg white: tryptophan (1000mg) Phosphorus (120mg)
(4) naked casseine: tryptophan (1090mg) Phosphorus (1300mg)
(5) skim milk tryptophan (1150mg) Phosphorus (2424)

So if you want a low tryptophan & Phosphorus diet, than skip the dairy and egg whites and go full on beef & collagen as main protein sources and take what extra eggshell powder with it the meals if you want to use the benefits of calcium.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom