Trouble Breathing/ Shortness Of Breath

[LUH 3417]

Hi,
I experienced the same exact thing taking progesterone. Both times it seemed to get much worse in February and it would worsen when I’d lay down to sleep (although I experienced episodes of it throughout the year). Progesterone helped lower my TSH from 1.88 to .88 which I think is a good sign. However I believe I was taking too much some months and I have to keep continuing to alter my approach to my health based on my intuition and experimentation. My menstrual cycle has always been 28-30 days apart but I have PMS and suspected hypothyroidism which is why I was taking progestE. I stopped eating dairy (blood tests indicated an allergy and I tried pushing through and still eating dairy. I couldn’t live with the brain fog/indigestion/feeling of heaviness any longer). Seeing an acupressurist and taking prescribed Chinese herbs has alleviated the shortness of breath completely and helped me regulate BMs while also helping my PMS. I think everyone’s needs are different and for me it is a combo of ray Peat’s teachings plus some lifestyle changes and additional support from Chinese medicine, which I personally find fascinating and have a strong desire to learn more about (which may even be part of the healing process itself). In TCM shortness of breath could be related to dampness, and dairy is very damp energetically. Add to that living in a damp environment and the dampness of late winter early spring....

 

[tara]

Sure, I just downloaded and put a typical day in, not sure what to screenshot to show best?

Can you show total calories, or protein as well as carbs and fat?

I added the supplements and for the last two weeks I felt kind of short of breath/ heart pounding but didn’t pay much attention to it. Then over the last couple of days it got pretty bad, makes me feel like I’m going to pass out even when I’m laying down. Wakes me up in the middle of the night. I started bag breathing but the tightness in my chest hasn’t gone away.

Have you been monitoring your body temps and resting heartrate? These can help give you an idea about what's going on with base metabolism, and help you assess the effects of things you change.
I'm no expert, but some thoughts ... Consider backing off the supplements if you thhink troublesome symptoms may have begun with them? You say very small amounts - I'm wondering how much? I think pounding heard could happen for various reasons - too much thyroid supplement for current need could be one. But low thyroid function can also have this in some situations, such as hyperventilation. Resting body temp might help distinguish. Also total maintenance calories can help tell how much fuel you are burning through. Adrenaline can be a player. You might be extra sensitive to it with a bit more thyroid in system. Adrenaline tends to make for cold feet etc, whereas hyperthyroid states just tend to get warm.

 

[Jen]

I actually haven’t been using the nutrition app since this happened so I don’t have a screenshot of that, I only downloaded and used it a couple of days to get an idea for this thread.

I was taking like 5 to 10mg of desiccated thyroid at the time, if that- I was breaking open a 65mg capsule and using an incredibly small amount to start as I have never reacted well to taking meds, my body just seems very sensitive. I was also taking vitamin B and progesterone and a good amount of collagen but backed off them immediately too.

I can definitely keep track of body temp and heart rate to see where I’m at. And I have backed off all supplements for now except the Vit D, k and magnesium (since I’ve taken them a very long time and know they don’t cause any probs). It feels like adrenaline, when the symptoms hit my extremities get very cold and are generally followed by a cold sweat. I’m just not sure what’s causing it aside from just making too many changes too soon as mentioned by others. In the last week I’ve gone back to eating regularly, added some more cooked veggies and rice in (because they seem easy on my stomach) dropped dairy and sugar way down but still continued with meat and lots of fruit. I’ve noticed its much better during the day but at times I can still feel lightheaded, uncomfortable breathing (feeling like I can’t get in much air) and the pounding heart (although nothing like before and the cold sweats have stopped). They are usually noticeable when I feel kind of bloated or like my digestion isnt running smoothly so maybe that’s the case. Still having trouble at night, uncomfortable going to sleep, feeling pressure in my chest and then waking several times throughout the night with the heart/lightheadedness which is just no fun. The less sleep I get the worse it gets and the worse I feel. About every third night I’m taking one of the .5mg Xanax that they gave me in the ER just to make sure I can get through one 8 hour stretch of sleep but I really don’t like taking it. I always wake up feeling a little nauseas and with the usual symptoms.

I’m glad I’m back to being able to eat and function now because for a few days it was so bad I couldn’t. I’m taking it slow and am just backtracking and trying to figure it out through the process of elimination. If I pinpoint anything I’ll update it here. Thank you all for the suggestions.

 

[Light]

I’m hypothyroid and started following Ray Peat over the last few months to help myself out. Recently having trouble breathing.

I think it may be progesterone or desiccated thyroid related. Since adding them in this month it’s slowly gotten worse, I’ve stopped until I can figure out what’s going on. Anyone else have experience with this?

Thank you for any info or help, I’m fairly new to this but have been dealing with hypo symptoms and doctors that didn’t help for the better part of 20 years and now that I’ve finally found RP, I’m really bummed to be having trouble following it.

Different people need different things, but here's what worked for me:

I've had a shortness of breath after I started peating, kinda like it's hard to take air in, and it came with some anxiety and at times even fear that i'm gonna die.
Had to remind myself that I am actually breathing - air going in, air going out, everything's okay.
And also if I die - f*ck it, so i'll die, it had to happen at some point.
Honestly the "f*ck it" helped more than "everything's okay", but maybe that's just me.

The thing that eliminated it for me was pregnenolone (even though I was also having some bad reactions to progesterone cream),
I used 5-10 drops from haidut's pregnenolone product "StressNon" for several days and the difficulty to breath went away completely.
Came back again a couple weeks ago - again 5 drops of pregnenolone under the tounge took care of it very quickly.
I have no idea what caused it though.
Good luck :)

*** Edit: if you do choose to try pregnenolone do a little research first, there are brands that make people worse.

*** Second edit - something that helped me alot with progesterone side effects was Vitex.

 

[Jen]

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll check out your pregnenolone and start cautiously- if it makes everything better I will be forever in your debt!

 

[Light]

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll check out your pregnenolone and start cautiously- if it makes everything better I will be forever in your debt!

I wish it will :)
I know what it's like to be stuck health wise...

 

[tara]

Hi Jen, don't know which if any of this will be relevant to you ...

I actually haven’t been using the nutrition app since this happened so I don’t have a screenshot of that, I only downloaded and used it a couple of days to get an idea for this thread.

I don't know what's going on for you, but in the past for me, I've had trouble at various times that I think has been associated with variously:
- insufficient calories - that in itself can raise stress hormones like adrenaline - I've been shaking, and even faint when hungry sometimes. (I've since learned more about what normal amounts of food are, ad what my needs are. For reference, an average mature premenopausal woman might eat something like 2500 cals/day to run a normal metabolism. More if extra tall, extra active, nursing, still developing (under 25)etc.) Trying to run on much less food than needed can force the body to reduce metabolism to spare itself.
- at times, maybe lack of protein/excess refined sugar
- some food intolerances (milk seems clearest ATM - serious brain fog is one symptom)
- probably insufficiency of some minerals - still trying to work this out, but wouldn't surprise me if I've had times of being quite low in some of the alkaline minerals.

A feeling of shortness of breath can sometimes come from habitual unaware hyperventilation, which lowers CO2 levels too much. The body needs good levels of CO2 for the blood to be able to deliver oxygen to the tissues and cells than need it. During a stressful patch, I had particularly noticable trouble with this. Making sure you are breathing through your nose all the time, including when sleeping, can make a really big difference. If it's not happening automaticaly , a little light tape, or cheap anti-snoring chinstrap can make it much easier. For me, when I got into this state, a bit of gentle movement was necessary t get me OK again.

Personally, I don't seem to feel well if I eat a large amount of sugar. My brain and energy feel better with more starchy foods and just some sugary ones.

I still think more info about your diet may be relevant. I tend to think the basics of food and lifestyle are the place to start, and if you post more people will be giving advice less blind. Supplements supplement diet, so it doesn't really make sense to discuss supplements without knowing what they are being added to.
Are you getting sunlight regularly?

 

[Jen]

Before this happened I had been on some kind of AIP, Keto, paleo, fodmaps, for quite some time due to docs recommending for autoimmune and IBS issues for years. After finding peat I cut out pufas and started drinking salted OJ and adding in collagen/gelatin for about 6 mos with no problems. Over the last couple of months I added in the other supplements mentioned and changed diet more, focusing on shellfish, dairy, sugar (not just fructose) etc...

I’ve been keeping track of what I eat for a very long time, but I only used the crono app for this thread. If I was still eating the same I’d be happy to enter it all but since I’ve changed it up after this disaster, my current diet isn’t going to show the same info obviously.

When this went down I was getting around 2300 calories per day and with a good ratio of carbs to protein, if anything I was a little high in fats (coconut oil/butter and cheese mostly) so I guess maybe more calories could have helped? If I had to guess though, the addition of sugar and more dairy was probably too big of an adjustment for me after having to avoid a lot of it for so long. I know my body and that it can be sensitive, I don’t know why I figured a drastic change would be good. I also noticed the symptoms after starting the progesterone and vitamin b complex so I’m looking at them harder than the rest.

Since backing off the supplements and going softer on diet, things have improved. Also paying attention to digestive issues is playing a part. If I get any stomach or bowel issues the breathing/pounding heart is much worse. The adrenaline symptoms are definitely worse the less sleep I get, which causes a viscous cycle. I’d love to know what my cortisol levels are doing right now. However, I’m dealing with what I have immediate control over- so I’m focusing on a less harsh diet, still focusing on plenty of good protein and fat and eating a lot of fruit for sugar that my body seems to be handling. I’m not sure yet if dairy is causing an issue but I’m going to space it out and see if I can tell.

I’m probably not getting enough sunlight, mainly because it’s winter and we’ve had a ton of rain for the last few months. I get outside daily regardless, Ive known the importance of it for years, but there’s no way it’s the same as it would be in spring and summer. I should probably order a heat lamp and spend some time with it as I’ve read a bit about, I don’t know.

Honestly, my plan is to return to some normalcy and then eventually just go SLOW with everything else. Adding things back one at a time should give me better insight to what is affecting me most. Doing too much at once is a bad idea because when things go wrong you don’t know which part is to blame and I should have known better.

 

[InChristAlone]

Shortness of breath is terrible! I went through it for a few yrs. It came on when I got my postpartum menstrual cycle back. I was also consuming a lot of milk around that time and completely going off milk really helped me. Also taping my mouth shut at night seemed to help train my body. But for me shortness of breath seems to come along with adrenaline so anything you can do to regulate your blood sugar will help as adrenaline is called on when blood sugar drops even if you have just eaten a lot of carbs. It can also be gut irritation maybe bacterial overgrowth. Or even acid reflux. It can be more than one thing if it's chronic.

 

[Light]

But for me shortness of breath seems to come along with adrenaline so anything you can do to regulate your blood sugar will help as adrenaline is called on when blood sugar drops even if you have just eaten a lot of carbs.

I second that.
I keep a bottle of honey and spoon near the bed and take some if I wake up at nught, it helps too.

 

[LUH 3417]

I second that.
I keep a bottle of honey and spoon near the bed and take some if I wake up at nught, it helps too.

Same. Honey let’s me get right back to bed.

 

[Light]

Same. Honey let’s me get right back to bed.

Even if I wake up with some anxiety - a few tsp of honey and I can go right back to sleep.

 

[Penelope70]

Thanks and good luck, Jen. Again, our symptoms are so very similar. Please do post anything you find helpful. And thanks to the other posters as well. Lots upon which to reflect and consider. I live in the the northernmost part of Europe so I’ve really started to become interested in sunlight as well. I think the lack of it - near complete absence some months - might be causing more problems than I realize. As the light starts to creep back, I find myself feeling less anxious, and having fewer icky heart problems and fainty feelings.

 

[tara]

Also taping my mouth shut at night seemed to help train my body. But for me shortness of breath seems to come along with adrenaline so anything you can do to regulate your blood sugar will help as adrenaline is called on when blood sugar drops even if you have just eaten a lot of carbs.

+1

Same. Honey let’s me get right back to bed.

I second that.
I keep a bottle of honey and spoon near the bed and take some if I wake up at nught, it helps too.

+1 on small sweet snack by the bed to get back to sleep quick and easy.

 

[LUH 3417]

I am trying to eat dairy again because I was experiencing calcium oxalate stones from my no dairy experiment. I also realized eating dairy makes the vertical ridges on my nails go away and my nails look pinker and smoother with dairy. So I started eating goat yogurt and goat cheese a few days ago and today my shortness of breath and allergies started acting up. I decided to have espresso and it made the shortness of breath go away. Maybe the espresso helped my digestion, as soon after I had multiple bowel movements. Not sure but wanted to share in case it may help anyone else. I think shortness of breath may be related to digestion, or pressure from the intestines on the stomach and diaphragm in my case.

 

[Bart1]

Wow I'm experiencing shortness of breath myself as well. I'm taking progesterone since a couple of weeks and it definitely got worse with that. So interesting to read this thread. I'm in the same place :-( I feel terrible for over a year. My health was already in decline for years. Really strange symptoms, but last year my energy totally collapsed. That's when I found Peat and I've been trying to get better which is not working unfortunately. I've tried a lot of things but my health does not seem to get much better. I made a lot of mistakes in the beginning and did a lot of pro metabolic things which my metabolism couldn't handle, so very high stress, muscle loss and lots of fat buildup as a consequence. We are desperate to get our health back and do stupid things... or at least I am..

 

[Jen]

It’s been a month now and I’m still waking in the middle of the night feeling like I can’t breathe. Heart still pounds, upper back hurts, I just feel like I’m suffocating even when breathing very calmly through my nose. I’m not getting much sleep because of it and starting to feel crazy. I tried the honey but it hasn’t helped. Not really sure what to do.

A thought did occur to me, this got bad after I had upped dairy and calcium intake and progesterone. Despite taking 5000 iu of vitamin d daily for a the last couple of years my vitamin d level is still low, has been for a long time. My labs from last month showed my calcium level at 10 (reference says 8.7-10.2, so I assume this is the upper limit?) Is it possible I’m hyperparathyroid?
Or hypercalcemic to some extent?

I don’t see that my pth levels were checked anywhere so I have no idea about them. I am currently trying to get in to a regular doctor but jumping through insurance hoops and being told I’m still a month out from a first appointment. Also very nervous that once in, my complaints will be dismissed or as in the past, nothing will be found. I feel like something is very wrong and this last month has been miserable. Pretty desperate right now.

The only things I’m currently taking daily:

-500 mg/magnesium (have taken this for years, if I stop I feel dizzy,nauseas)
-5000 iu/vitamin d (also taken for a long time, if I cut completely out I get dizzy,nauseas but can cut down)
-100 mcg vitamink2 (taken for last year)
-.5 g levothyroxine (started 2 weeks ago from naturopath, haven’t noticed any difference in symptoms)

 

[YourUniverse]

Hi Jen, I understand that you're supplementing vitamin K2, but do you have any dietary sources of vitamin K? Has there been an uptick in life stress since this started? Maybe something in the back of your mind, or something you feel powerless to change?

 

[Bart1]

It’s been a month now and I’m still waking in the middle of the night feeling like I can’t breathe. Heart still pounds, upper back hurts, I just feel like I’m suffocating even when breathing very calmly through my nose. I’m not getting much sleep because of it and starting to feel crazy. I tried the honey but it hasn’t helped. Not really sure what to do.

A thought did occur to me, this got bad after I had upped dairy and calcium intake and progesterone. Despite taking 5000 iu of vitamin d daily for a the last couple of years my vitamin d level is still low, has been for a long time. My labs from last month showed my calcium level at 10 (reference says 8.7-10.2, so I assume this is the upper limit?) Is it possible I’m hyperparathyroid?
Or hypercalcemic to some extent?

I don’t see that my pth levels were checked anywhere so I have no idea about them. I am currently trying to get in to a regular doctor but jumping through insurance hoops and being told I’m still a month out from a first appointment. Also very nervous that once in, my complaints will be dismissed or as in the past, nothing will be found. I feel like something is very wrong and this last month has been miserable. Pretty desperate right now.

The only things I’m currently taking daily:

-500 mg/magnesium (have taken this for years, if I stop I feel dizzy,nauseas)
-5000 iu/vitamin d (also taken for a long time, if I cut completely out I get dizzy,nauseas but can cut down)
-100 mcg vitamink2 (taken for last year)
-.5 g levothyroxine (started 2 weeks ago from naturopath, haven’t noticed any difference in symptoms)

It could also be high cortisol, histamine intolerance etc. Have you tried cypro ?

 

[LUH 3417]

It’s been a month now and I’m still waking in the middle of the night feeling like I can’t breathe. Heart still pounds, upper back hurts, I just feel like I’m suffocating even when breathing very calmly through my nose. I’m not getting much sleep because of it and starting to feel crazy. I tried the honey but it hasn’t helped. Not really sure what to do.

A thought did occur to me, this got bad after I had upped dairy and calcium intake and progesterone. Despite taking 5000 iu of vitamin d daily for a the last couple of years my vitamin d level is still low, has been for a long time. My labs from last month showed my calcium level at 10 (reference says 8.7-10.2, so I assume this is the upper limit?) Is it possible I’m hyperparathyroid?
Or hypercalcemic to some extent?

I don’t see that my pth levels were checked anywhere so I have no idea about them. I am currently trying to get in to a regular doctor but jumping through insurance hoops and being told I’m still a month out from a first appointment. Also very nervous that once in, my complaints will be dismissed or as in the past, nothing will be found. I feel like something is very wrong and this last month has been miserable. Pretty desperate right now.

The only things I’m currently taking daily:

-500 mg/magnesium (have taken this for years, if I stop I feel dizzy,nauseas)
-5000 iu/vitamin d (also taken for a long time, if I cut completely out I get dizzy,nauseas but can cut down)
-100 mcg vitamink2 (taken for last year)
-.5 g levothyroxine (started 2 weeks ago from naturopath, haven’t noticed any difference in symptoms)

Can you see an endocrinologist? You can say you have PMS and need to see a specialist. They will test things like PTH