Tropical Region Vs Cancer Incidence Rate , World Map

[ddjd]

Is it just related to high vitamin d levels from all the sunshine?

 

[shepherdgirl]

His theory is that diabetes is actually an adaptation to cold weather arguing that sugar has anti-freeze properties and that a higher blood sugar level improves survival in frigid environments. Hilariously, he uses the analogy of ice wine in his argument.

Wow, that's really interesting! It makes me think of what Peat said about bears- that they are diabetic when they come out of hibernation. When they are living off their fat all winter, the diabetes might give them higher blood sugar than normal. I am not assuming they are necessarily in ketosis because of the following quote, which I recently read on Wikipedia, concerning the Inuit:

However, in multiple studies the traditional Inuit diet has not been shown to be a ketogenic diet. Not only have multiple researchers been unable to detect any evidence of ketosis resulting from the traditional Inuit Diet, but the ratios of fatty-acid to glucose were observed to be well below the generally accepted level of ketogenesis.

from Wikipedia, "Inuit cuisine,"
The article goes on to say that the Inuit obtain more glycogen from meat because it is fresh, and blubber also has some carbohydrate.

 

[Nicole W.]

Wow, that's really interesting! It makes me think of what Peat said about bears- that they are diabetic when they come out of hibernation. When they are living off their fat all winter, the diabetes might give them higher blood sugar than normal. I am not assuming they are necessarily in ketosis because of the following quote, which I recently read on Wikipedia, concerning the Inuit:

from Wikipedia, "Inuit cuisine,"
The article goes on to say that the Inuit obtain more glycogen from meat because it is fresh, and blubber also has some carbohydrate.

Well, it seems that there is definitely a correlation between cold environments and diabetes. The Inuit have adapted to their inhospitable environment but there must be compromises health wise with such a limited diet.
I read Survival of the Sickest before I was well acquainted with Ray Peat's theories. It would be even more fascinating to read it again through his lens. If memory serves, the first chapter is on iron overload in the form of hemochromatosis which the author again argues is the result of another type of evolutionary adaptation. Honestly, the book is great, I reflected on it for months after reading it. I might just have to pick it up again.

 

[shepherdgirl]

@Nicole W.
Oh, what i meant to say was that it makes sense to me that diabetes could help cold-weather animals and cultures to keep a relatively high blood sugar level over the winter.
Thanks for the info, maybe I will check out the book too. There are some interesting discrepancies in the theory of it being a cold weather adaptation though - for ex. the US has the highest adult diabetes incidence in the southeast, and a much lower incidence rate along the Canadian border. It probably gets complicated by lifestyle/dietary differences though. There would probably be more and more pufa in the plants and animals the further north you go, because they are needed for flexibility in the cold. They would contribute to more and more diabetes as the climate got colder. But in the southeast I think there is a lot of fried food that is probably heavy in pufa which maybe skews the graph? Maybe the temperature differences from south to north in the US are not that great, so lifestyle differences are the dominant factor?

 

[Simba1992]

Years ago I read a book called Survival of The Sickest by Dr. Sharon Maolem. The focus of the book is human disease seen through an evolutionary lens. His theories and arguments are pretty fascinating IMO.
In the chapter discussing the potential origin of diabetes, he pointed out that diabetes 1 is much more common in people who reside in cold weather places and the disease itself is more frequently diagnosed in the winter than any other time of year. Apparently Finland has the highest rate of diabetes 1 in the world.

His theory is that diabetes is actually an adaptation to cold weather arguing that sugar has anti-freeze properties and that a higher blood sugar level improves survival in frigid environments. Hilariously, he uses the analogy of ice wine in his argument. When grapevines experience an extended frost, the entire organism dumps water to prevent freezing of tissues. When this happens the sugar content of the grapes goes up, producing a very sweet wine. This is how the plant survives relatively unscathed. So could elevated blood sugar of these animals some how contribute to their longevity??? Just a thought.

I come from Finland. The high incidence of diabetes has for decades been a debated subject. The highest incidence was found in eastern parts. The funny thing however that on the other side of the Rusiian border the incidence is low! For decades the fat food and the meager amount of fresh vegetables was thought to be the culprit, so a huge expensive project to change the diet to less saturated fat more plant based diet. But lo and behold it was a big flop! The diet was changed but the effect on diabetes was not convincing. The diet of the Finns living in this region has traditionally been very heavy, it's really cold in the winter. What's also very typical is the huge amount of sweet baking products. You are always offered cakes and buns and bread in abundance when you come to visit. Fruits are in fact very scarce.
Looking at it from a Peat perspective you could imagine that the insufficient sunlight, the amount of bad carbs and the missing fruits would have an effect(?) Then again what about the Russians on the other side of the boarder that do not show the same profile. Perhaps because they diet all in all is quite meager...

 

[Nicole W.]

@Nicole W.
Oh, what i meant to say was that it makes sense to me that diabetes could help cold-weather animals and cultures to keep a relatively high blood sugar level over the winter.
Thanks for the info, maybe I will check out the book too. There are some interesting discrepancies in the theory of it being a cold weather adaptation though - for ex. the US has the highest adult diabetes incidence in the southeast, and a much lower incidence rate along the Canadian border. It probably gets complicated by lifestyle/dietary differences though. There would probably be more and more pufa in the plants and animals the further north you go, because they are needed for flexibility in the cold. They would contribute to more and more diabetes as the climate got colder. But in the southeast I think there is a lot of fried food that is probably heavy in pufa which maybe skews the graph? Maybe the temperature differences from south to north in the US are not that great, so lifestyle differences are the dominant factor?

I think the difference might lie in the type of diabetes. Finland supposedly has the highest rate of type 1 diabetes. Places that use a lot of industrial seed oils like the Middle East and the southern part of the U.S. (hot regions)... these culinary cultures fry a lot of their foods so incidence of type 2 diabetes and kidney disease is high. So maybe the type of diabetes is the important distinction here? Not sure.

 

[shepherdgirl]

Sorry, the map i included above was a prevalence map of diabetes in US, not an incidence map!!

I come from Finland. The high incidence of diabetes has for decades been a debated subject. The highest incidence was found in eastern parts. The funny thing however that on the other side of the Rusiian border the incidence is low!

Do Sweden and Norway also have a high incidence?

 

[kayumochi]

Most major correlation is wealth (though Saudi/UAE bucks the trend somehow).

What would be present in a wealthy nation, but not in an Islamic theocracy?

Besides some measure of freedom?

Years back a friend of mine in the US Air Force was stationed in Saudi Arabia and an officer from the Saudi Air Force invited him to dinner at his house. My friend was surprised when the Saudi's wife came out of the kitchen wearing nothing but a bikini and holding a platter of cocktails. The Saudis are known in the Islamic world as the biggest hypocrites. Had the USA not propped up their corrupt monarchy all these decades, Saudi Arabia probably would have gone through a bloody revolution long ago and now its people would enjoy some measure of democracy.

 

[kayumochi]

I think you're ideas are right! That and the lower cancer countries also eat the whole animal and more tropical fruits. It would be interesting to see a map of the United States and the rate of cancer by state. Would the southernmost states have less cancer? If so I would attribute that to vitamin D levels, but then why is Australia so high? Freakin wifi.

Vitamin D levels are low around the world, in even sunny places.

 

[Simba1992]

Sorry, the map i included above was a prevalence map of diabetes in US, not an incidence map!!


Do Sweden and Norway also have a high incidence?

No, Finland stands out! However when you look at RA also an autoimmune disease the baltic countries have a higher incidence than the rest of Europe. I think UK was about the same

 

[kayumochi]

I saw study years back that indicated the people in the USA who were diagnosed with cancer in the spring and summer lived longer than those diagnosed in the winter and I believe the link was Vitamin D levels.

 

[Simba1992]

Vitamin D levels are low around the world, in even sunny places.

But vit. D production is just part of the benefits of sunlight. Still the amount of infrared light must play a role?

 

[SQu]

There's a bit of altitude there too. Look at the Southern hemisphere. South Africa vs Australia, same latitude, similarly very sunny places but South Africa has high altitude, much of the interior is high. Look at Chile vs Argentina. A multiple sclerosis incidence map I looked at for South Africa was a perfect inverse of an altitude map. The researchers were tying themselves in knots trying to explain it genetically!

 

[shepherdgirl]

@SQu
totally agree, altitude has to be considered too! Just looking at an incidence map doesn't tell the whole story!

 

[Simba1992]

@SQu
totally agree, altitude has to be considered too! Just looking at an incidence map doesn't tell the whole story!

So

@SQu
totally agree, altitude has to be considered too! Just looking at an incidence map doesn't tell the whole story!

Probably not just one factor to be considered. Norway has nearly the double incidence of cancer compared to Finland and Sweden and Danmark tops them all.Even France seems to be in the same category. Dont really know where to start looking for the risk factors

 

[paymanz]

Other than saudi arabia and some small arabic cauntries in its neighboring most of othe cauntries in low cancer part are not really wealthy!

Big part of it is africa!

But low rate of cancer in those arabic countries is interesting ,as others mentioned, half of their population wear hijab, so no sunlight. But im not sure if they consuming pufa heavily!?

 

[Nicole W.]

I come from Finland. The high incidence of diabetes has for decades been a debated subject. The highest incidence was found in eastern parts. The funny thing however that on the other side of the Rusiian border the incidence is low! For decades the fat food and the meager amount of fresh vegetables was thought to be the culprit, so a huge expensive project to change the diet to less saturated fat more plant based diet. But lo and behold it was a big flop! The diet was changed but the effect on diabetes was not convincing. The diet of the Finns living in this region has traditionally been very heavy, it's really cold in the winter. What's also very typical is the huge amount of sweet baking products. You are always offered cakes and buns and bread in abundance when you come to visit. Fruits are in fact very scarce.
Looking at it from a Peat perspective you could imagine that the insufficient sunlight, the amount of bad carbs and the missing fruits would have an effect(?) Then again what about the Russians on the other side of the boarder that do not show the same profile. Perhaps because they diet all in all is quite meager...

Could the disparity that exists between the Finns and the Russians be attributable to the use of Sauna? Virtually every home in Finland has a sauna but I have not heard of that being the case in Russian homes. Do they typically use Sauna also?
In the ice wine example mentioned earlier in this thread, grapevines exposed to an extended frost dump water, and by becoming functionally dehydrated, cause sugar concentration in the grapes to go up. Apparently something similar happens when people, and diabetics in particular, become dehydrated-- their blood sugar levels go up. Perhaps the frequent use of Sauna ( which is presumably dehydrating) affects blood sugar levels and combined with cold may make a significant impact on the incidence of diabetes in Finland. Just a guess!

 

[shepherdgirl]

Great question @Nicole W. !
Is sauna as popular in the rest of Scandinavia as it is in Finland?
In 2013, the countries with the highest incidence of type 1 diabetes (up to 14 years of age) : Finland #1, Sweden #2, Norway #4.

 

[Sepulchrave]

I think several factors are at play. Pleasant climate that allows one to be outside, less stressful work culture, less isolation, much better social life in those poorer countries, red meat and dairy consumption which are related to wealth.

 

[Simba1992]

Could the disparity that exists between the Finns and the Russians be attributable to the use of Sauna? Virtually every home in Finland has a sauna but I have not heard of that being the case in Russian homes. Do they typically use Sauna also?
In the ice wine example mentioned earlier in this thread, grapevines exposed to an extended frost dump water, and by becoming functionally dehydrated, cause sugar concentration in the grapes to go up. Apparently something similar happens when people, and diabetics in particular, become dehydrated-- their blood sugar levels go up. Perhaps the frequent use of Sauna ( which is presumably dehydrating) affects blood sugar levels and combined with cold may make a significant impact on the incidence of diabetes in Finland. Just a guess!

Everyone in Finland uses the sauna and everywhere, still the high incidence is seen only in the eastern part called Karelia. The only thing that is in fact different is the amount of grains and refined sugar used in diet with heavy fatty meat based foods and meager amount of fruits. The Karelians are also seen as more jovial than the rest of the finns they joke and laugh a lot.This should be a possitive factor.