Tried Everything, Can't Get Rid Of These Symptoms

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Dec 18, 2018
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Hi Vinny! :)

It would depend on the type of overgrowth and antibiotic used. With SIBO, the breath test measures both hydrogen and methane. Typically, Rifaximin/Xifaxan is used to target hydrogen producing bacteria and neomycin for methane producing bacteria. A broad spectrum antibiotic like the cyclines (tetra, doxy and mino) can work but from what my doctor told me, when it comes to methane producing bacteria, not penicillins. I mention penicillin because Ray often suggests VK and it's one of the ones I see frequently used by members here. It can also take more than one course (a typical course is 14 days) of antibiotics to clear SIBO.

There's also underlying causes which are often untreated or undertreated hypothyroidism and/or diet. Stress (affects gut motility and permeability, among other things), poorly digested food, food allergies, probiotics, fiber etc. can fuel an overgrowth and if they aren't addressed at the same time as treatment, the antibiotics may not be as effective. For example, I've had a hard time with dairy since birth (was formula fed) and developed an overgrowth after reintroducing it after a 3(?) year hiatus in my 20s (have before and after comprehensive stool tests that prove this), and was put on minocycline (200mg a day) to clear it. I should note I was also treating my thyroid at the time (with WP Thyroid). I continued to consume dairy during treatment and whenever I tried to get off the antibiotic, all the overgrowth symptoms (except for the puffy eyes, same as the ones Lee mentions) would return so my doctor had me keep taking it. After a year, I decided to go off the mino for good and my symptoms came back with a vengeance. Even removing dairy from my diet didn't relieve them like it had prior to treatment. Looking back, I should have removed dairy from my diet while taking the mino and stuck with foods I know I digest best, even if they're not considered ideal by the scientific literature or among certain diet camps/gut healing protocols. With dairy in my diet, I was only keeping the overgrowth at bay with the mino, not clearing it completely.


indeed.dairy causes continous SIBO in people with certain disposition.
because milk contains a huge amount of infectious material,its consumption
causes perpetual reinfection.
 

Vinny

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Hi Vinny! :)

It would depend on the type of overgrowth and antibiotic used. With SIBO, the breath test measures both hydrogen and methane. Typically, Rifaximin/Xifaxan is used to target hydrogen producing bacteria and neomycin for methane producing bacteria. A broad spectrum antibiotic like the cyclines (tetra, doxy and mino) can work but from what my doctor told me, when it comes to methane producing bacteria, not penicillins. I mention penicillin because Ray often suggests VK and it's one of the ones I see frequently used by members here. It can also take more than one course (a typical course is 14 days) of antibiotics to clear SIBO.

There's also underlying causes which are often untreated or undertreated hypothyroidism and/or diet. Stress (affects gut motility and permeability, among other things), poorly digested food, food allergies, probiotics, fiber etc. can fuel an overgrowth and if they aren't addressed at the same time as treatment, it may not be as successful. For example, I've had a hard time with dairy since birth (was formula fed) and developed an overgrowth after reintroducing it after a 3(?) year hiatus in my 20s (have before and after comprehensive stool tests that prove this), and was put on minocycline (200mg a day) to clear it. I should note I was also treating my thyroid at the time (with WP Thyroid). I continued to consume dairy during treatment and whenever I tried to get off the antibiotic, all the overgrowth symptoms (except for the puffy eyes, same as the ones Lee mentions) would return so my doctor had me keep taking it. After a year, I decided to go off the mino for good and my symptoms came back with a vengeance. Even removing dairy from my diet didn't relieve them like it had prior to treatment. Looking back, I should have removed dairy from my diet while taking the mino and stuck with foods I know I digest best, even if they're not considered ideal by the scientific literature or among certain diet camps/gut healing protocols. With dairy in my diet, I was only keeping the overgrowth at bay with the mino, not clearing it completely.
Jennifer, I hope OP is reading your posts. They are priceless.
 

Jennifer

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Thank you, @Vinny! :) I hope they're helpful in some way.
 

Constatine

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It's obviously important to lower total bacteria and fungal levels but antimicrobials will only do so much if you are suffering from constipation. Increasing bowel frequency is as valid a goal as reducing bacteria count.
The only foods/supplements that I've seen actually lower total intestinal bacteria are these:
Shiitake mushrooms (dried): The Influence of Lentinus Edodes (Shiitake Mushroom) Preparations on Bacteriological and Morphological Aspects of the Small Intestine in Piglets - PubMed
Coconut oil: Dietary Cold Pressed Watercress and Coconut Oil Mixture Enhances Growth Performance, Intestinal Microbiota, Antioxidant Status, and Immunity of Growing Rabbits, Manipulation of Host Diet To Reduce Gastrointestinal Colonization by the Opportunistic Pathogen Candida Albicans - PubMed
Clove: Effects of Clove (Syzygium Aromaticum) Oil on Quail Growth, Carcass Traits, Blood Components, Meat Quality, and Intestinal Microbiota - PubMed
Coffee: Coffee To Sterilize The Gut
Note that with oregano oil specifically I've seen it lower counts of certain pathogenic bacteria but it fails to significantly lower total bacteria.
 
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I'm a long time lurker of this forum and many others. I have had the below symptoms for over 2 years now:

  • Swollen/Puffy Eyes
  • Horrible, thick, white coated tongue (sometimes yellow)
  • Constant runny nose
  • Frequent dull headaches
  • Constant irritability
  • Short term memory issues
  • Swollen sinusus (inability to breathe properly through sinuses, especially worse at night)
  • Bloating (I'm pretty lean 10-12% body fat, but always hold water/gas)
  • Noisy stomach (this gets weirdly loud)
  • Always tired, especially tired eyes.
Most of the above symptoms correlate, for example my eyes go worse together with the tongue coating and sinus issues and dull headaches.

I have tried every diet under the sun, very low fat ray peat diet, milk and OJ alone, fasting, GAPS, low FODMAP, candida diet, paleo, Epi-paleo.

In terms of other things I have tried that I remember (I have tried almost everything with no results):

  • T3 (still use, makes me less tired and keeps temps reasonable, but not great)
  • Progesterone
  • Pregnenolone
  • Vitamin D and K2
  • Hydrogen Peroxide
  • Turpentine
  • Candida Complexes
  • Nystatin
  • Antibiotics
  • Enemas
  • Sodium Bicarbonate
  • Lots of sea salt
  • ACV
  • Fulvic Acid
  • Lots of different Magnesium
  • Epsom Salt baths
  • Oil of Oregano
  • Sodium Thiosulfate
  • Iodine
  • Flowers of Sulphur
  • Different Amino Acids
There are probably more, but this covers most that i have tried for a while.

Although it's a long shot and I feel as though there's pretty much no hope. I am keeping my fingers crossed that there may be someone who can help.

Airway allergy,dust allergy,do you do sports,if so,what effect comes from it.
 

Amber

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Feb 18, 2017
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Following this. I am also very lean but still look puffy/bloated on and off and can’t figure it out. Also irritability + tongue is puffy sometimes which is really weird lol. I think our symptoms are related to the liver and/or gallbladder.

i dont believe in chinese medicine but they trace these symptoms back to the liver and gallbladder too even the tongue problem.
 

Source Code

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This kinda thing would be a traditional chinese medicine doctors specialty, they use the tongue as the main form of diagnosis..
 
OP
L

Lee Sanderson

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Aug 12, 2019
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Since reading the responses, I have tried a few things, without much positive results.

In terms of thyroid I went up to 150mcg a day for 2 weeks. Weirdly temps are 0.2c lower than on 75mcg and I really don't know why (it is cynomel).

I have taken a course of Fluconazole, with no results whatsoever. Tiny bit of tongue clearing whilst taking (however could have easily been a coincidence) and then back to bad afterwards.

My worse symptoms seems to be at nights when I can't breath out of my nose properly. I have tested negative for sleep apnea, but I think on some nights I get hypoxia from breathing issues, causing a really bag morning tongue, a horrific morning mood, really bad puffy eyes and a terrible headache. I have tried mouth-taping and it stays on most nights, but I feel I am not getting enough air. Any ideas on how to stop this?

I am thinking about trying an antibiotic, but really didn't want to go down that route. I have tried all the alternative candida treatments and I get that little benefit that it makes me think that it isn't candida.
 

SOMO

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Since reading the responses, I have tried a few things, without much positive results.

In terms of thyroid I went up to 150mcg a day for 2 weeks. Weirdly temps are 0.2c lower than on 75mcg and I really don't know why (it is cynomel).

I have taken a course of Fluconazole, with no results whatsoever. Tiny bit of tongue clearing whilst taking (however could have easily been a coincidence) and then back to bad afterwards.

My worse symptoms seems to be at nights when I can't breath out of my nose properly. I have tested negative for sleep apnea, but I think on some nights I get hypoxia from breathing issues, causing a really bag morning tongue, a horrific morning mood, really bad puffy eyes and a terrible headache. I have tried mouth-taping and it stays on most nights, but I feel I am not getting enough air. Any ideas on how to stop this?

I am thinking about trying an antibiotic, but really didn't want to go down that route. I have tried all the alternative candida treatments and I get that little benefit that it makes me think that it isn't candida.

If your nose gets clogged, try:

1. Having your last meal around 6PM, ideally it should be high in salt.
2. Drinking something salty before bed, maybe just salt water.
3. Xylitol Nasal Spray
This stuff clears the nasal passages, AND disinfects the nose.
9.jpg
 

thomas00

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A few things:

-Vitamin D: how much are you taking?

-Antibiotics: which ones have you tried? You mentioned white tongue. This could be a job for CamphoSal.

-Antihistamines, as somebody mentioned. There's ketotifen, cyproheptadine, ebastine and famotidine to try.


I have more to ask. And I wouldn't be taking anything more than a physiological dose of that t3, until you get things more under control. It will just add to the confusion.
 
OP
L

Lee Sanderson

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If your nose gets clogged, try:

1. Having your last meal around 6PM, ideally it should be high in salt.
2. Drinking something salty before bed, maybe just salt water.
3. Xylitol Nasal Spray
This stuff clears the nasal passages, AND disinfects the nose.
9.jpg

1) I do this anyway, pretty much all my meals are high in salt and it does help a little.
2) Will try this, normally don't drink for 3 hours or so before bed.
3) Tried this and so many other nasal sprays with no results. I think the issue is because is swelling/inflammation rather than just mucous.
 
OP
L

Lee Sanderson

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A few things:

-Vitamin D: how much are you taking?

-Antibiotics: which ones have you tried? You mentioned white tongue. This could be a job for CamphoSal.

-Antihistamines, as somebody mentioned. There's ketotifen, cyproheptadine, ebastine and famotidine to try.


I have more to ask. And I wouldn't be taking anything more than a physiological dose of that t3, until you get things more under control. It will just add to the confusion.

- I was taking 20,000IU a day with K2, but I have stopped for now, need to retest levels.
- I have tried Tetracycline, no benefits really.
- I will look in to some of these. I have tried cypro and the side effects where horrific, literally took away all my emotions making me numb and irritable. Like I could have jumped from a plane and not been bothered.
 

Hans

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No one mentioned serotonin or estrogen. Both of those could be high and is causing issues. Have you had any tests done?
 

SOMO

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1) I do this anyway, pretty much all my meals are high in salt and it does help a little.
2) Will try this, normally don't drink for 3 hours or so before bed.
3) Tried this and so many other nasal sprays with no results. I think the issue is because is swelling/inflammation rather than just mucous.

That sucks the Xylitol spray didn't work.

Have you tried Famotidine or Cyproheptadine?
 

thomas00

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- I was taking 20,000IU a day with K2, but I have stopped for now, need to retest levels.
- I have tried Tetracycline, no benefits really.
- I will look in to some of these. I have tried cypro and the side effects where horrific, literally took away all my emotions making me numb and irritable. Like I could have jumped from a plane and not been bothered.

How did all of your problems come about? Some context might be helpful.

Certainly sounds like all lot symptoms are being caused by intestinal problems. If that's the case it's a matter of finding out what the source of your gut issues are- metabolic, infection etc

Maybe CamphaSal could be helpful. Have you tried using Cascara?
 
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- I was taking 20,000IU a day with K2, but I have stopped for now, need to retest levels.
- I have tried Tetracycline, no benefits really.
- I will look in to some of these. I have tried cypro and the side effects where horrific, literally took away all my emotions making me numb and irritable. Like I could have jumped from a plane and not been bothered.


I know it is hard,but can you remember the most stable/good Phase in regards to nutrition and supplementation?I want to know if incomplete supplementation in combination with insufficent Dieting can cause this stillstand
 

Svdmeere

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Jul 3, 2017
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Have you looked into the low vitamin A thread/diet on this forum? From all the threads on all forums I have ever read, that one holds the record of most cure stories, BY FAR. Vitamin A overload can certainly fit your symptoms. It changed my life as well...
 

Memento

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I have never measured homecysteine, but I have taken high dose b2 for a while, with nothing majorly positive to report.

Copper, methylation and histamine have connections so I would check that homocysteine. Especially with that zn/cu ratio you mentioned earlier, wikipedia has some scary stuff under copper deficiency.
 

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