Traumatic Brain Injury (tbi)

[dookie]

A relative recently had a car accident, and had a traumatic brain injury. There was unresponsiveness for several hours, but he has woken up now, but cannot speak coherently, walk, etc. I have recommended progesterone to the immediate family, but they are a bit wary of using a "female pregnancy hormone". I will send them some of the progesterone traumatic brain injury studies, hopefully they will change their mind.

Besides progesterone, what else can I recommend them?

Does anyone have any first hand experience with brain injuries, having seen what can make a difference?

 

[jyb]

Red light that can go through the skull. I think you can only achieve that with laser/LEDs. Good luck on finding a LED helmet quickly, however, I would not know how.

 

[haidut]

A relative recently had a car accident, and had a traumatic brain injury. There was unresponsiveness for several hours, but he has woken up now, but cannot speak coherently, walk, etc. I have recommended progesterone to the immediate family, but they are a bit wary of using a "female pregnancy hormone". I will send them some of the progesterone traumatic brain injury studies, hopefully they will change their mind.

Besides progesterone, what else can I recommend them?

Does anyone have any first hand experience with brain injuries, having seen what can make a difference?

Both caffeine and niacinamide have also been used for TBI. Apparently, niacinamide is the most potent neuroprotective substance in clinical use. Too bad most doctors probably have never heard about this.
Sirtuins, Nicotinamide and Aging: A Critical Review
"...Nicotinamide is a form of vitamin B3 and is required for normal life. Nicotinamide deficiency is called pellagra and is marked by diarrhea, dementia and dermatitis. Pellagra is fatal due to neurodegeneration unless nicotinamide is administered. Nicotinamide is the most powerful neuroprotective agent in clinical use. Several rodent studies have provided data suggesting a use for the combination of nicotinamide and ketamine in recovery from stroke [25, 31, 32]. Senescent patients tend to be nicotinamide deficient, not nicotinamide over medicated [34]."

 

[dookie]

Both caffeine and niacinamide have also been used for TBI. Apparently, niacinamide is the most potent neuroprotective substance in clinical use. Too bad most doctors probably have never heard about this.
Sirtuins, Nicotinamide and Aging: A Critical Review
"...Nicotinamide is a form of vitamin B3 and is required for normal life. Nicotinamide deficiency is called pellagra and is marked by diarrhea, dementia and dermatitis. Pellagra is fatal due to neurodegeneration unless nicotinamide is administered. Nicotinamide is the most powerful neuroprotective agent in clinical use. Several rodent studies have provided data suggesting a use for the combination of nicotinamide and ketamine in recovery from stroke [25, 31, 32]. Senescent patients tend to be nicotinamide deficient, not nicotinamide over medicated [34]."

Do you have any idea of what doses of caffeine and niacinamide to use? Would you use them together?

Is a single dose per day, or several doses, more effective?

 

[DaveFoster]

Nicotinamide; niacinamide; aspirin if you don't care about brain bleeding. Vitamin E will be great; anything to lower endorphins (cyproheptadine).

Progesterone; pregnenolone; DHEA; and caffeine. Anything to get your neuroprotective steroids going.

Plenty of sleep; don't use an alarm. Skip work, class, or anything if you need to for 10 days.

The king of it all: HYDERGINE. It improves cerebral bloodflow. After TBI's cerebral bloodflow drops for 7-10 days. It helped me fully recover in 5 days.

 

[tara]

aspirin if you don't care about brain bleeding

?!

 

[DaveFoster]

?!

*disclaimer*

 

[meatbag]

aspirin if you don't care about brain bleeding

Potential role of aspirin in the prevention of aneurysmal subarachnoid hemorrhage
Potential role of aspirin in the prevention of aneurysmal subarachnoid hemorrhage. - PubMed - NCBI
(haidut posted this awhile back)

 

[DaveFoster]

Potential role of aspirin in the prevention of aneurysmal subarachnoid hemorrhage
Potential role of aspirin in the prevention of aneurysmal subarachnoid hemorrhage. - PubMed - NCBI
(haidut posted this awhile back)

Right on, thanks for the link. Aspirin would be flawless if not for the rectal bleeding side effect.

 

[Sheila]

Dear Dookie

This email exchange discusses a brain injury of longer standing, but may be useful.
Re-breathing may also be of assistance going forward.

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository | Page 3 | Ray Peat Forum
Best of luck
Sheila

 

[dookie]

Dear Dookie

This email exchange discusses a brain injury of longer standing, but may be useful.
Re-breathing may also be of assistance going forward.

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository | Page 3 | Ray Peat Forum
Best of luck
Sheila

Sheila thanks,

Is it someone you know who has the brain injury?

Have you seen much progress with using those things he mentions in the email?

 

[Sheila]

Dear Dookie
Yes, I know this boy and his family well and they will be testing these suggestions before too long with careful monitoring. Re-breathing, recommenced after a 5 year hiatus (different therapy change at that time) has already delivered improvements and now that the theory to actuality chasm is being crossed (and we understand it all better as to why this is the case), there is room for optimism. It is very difficult in these kinds of cases to judge correctly the many variables that need to align to help, not least to overcome the fear of both patient and family wrt 'different' approaches, and whether the patient themselves can give feedback which, luckily in this case, is possible and extensive (due largely to early work with The Institute I suspect).
In chronic injury, I have seen the approach of The Institutes mentioned in Rebreathing thread and latterly Leonid Blyum's ABR techniques to enable profound beneficial change in brain damaged children.
On ABR and beyond...

In acute brain injury, where I have also been involved, the situation is complex and often highly conventionally medicalised. Very hard and very frightening for the patient and their family, even more so to grasp the potential of 'unusual' suggestions. The above methodologies do not involve hormone supplementation and do produce results and there is no reason why some of this could not be applied to an acquired brain injury in adulthood working slowly and carefully.
For example it is possible to trigger seizures with rebreathing, as much as it is possible to ameliorate them over time with the same method. It's all timing and context.
I will certainly report progress, or otherwise, as I have on other conditions here, as we all try to bridge theory together with practice.
Best regards,
Sheila

 

[Sheila]

PS Dookie - Heidi has written wonderfully about the re-breathing (called Masking) technique at The Institutes here Relearning How To Breath And Increasing Co2 | Page 2 | Ray Peat Forum
Sheila.

 

[dookie]

PS Dookie - Heidi has written wonderfully about the re-breathing (called Masking) technique at The Institutes here Relearning How To Breath And Increasing Co2 | Page 2 | Ray Peat Forum
Sheila.

Do you think it can be done with a simple plastic bag (breathing in it for like a minute), or would the paper bag re-breathing that Peat suggests be able to achieve the same? Or is a specialized "mask" necessary?

 

[Sheila]

Dear Dookie
From what I am seeing, a simple bag can be sufficient. I am yet to explore the full extent of masking vs bag breathing, but I think in the former it's important not to get into hyperventilation which it can promote.
With a brain injured person, what techniques are available also depend on their level of manual ability, so a mask might be easier to put on and release by someone else than holding a paper bag (which either party may, or may not be able to do).
So there is a practical aspect to this as well. Ultimately, my gut feeling is that 'just' bag breathing would work, performed to 'mildly uncomfortable' but perhaps more frequently than 2-3x a day, more like 15-20x.
It is wise to start slowly however, particularly if there is any seizure potential, it would appear the biochemistry of seizure susceptibility can be more unstable and easily tipped in the wrong direction. Just mindfulness and conscious slowing down of breathing - if possible - is a better primer, then on to other methods like using the bag.
Best of luck
Sheila

 

[dookie]

Dear Dookie
From what I am seeing, a simple bag can be sufficient. I am yet to explore the full extent of masking vs bag breathing, but I think in the former it's important not to get into hyperventilation which it can promote.
With a brain injured person, what techniques are available also depend on their level of manual ability, so a mask might be easier to put on and release by someone else than holding a paper bag (which either party may, or may not be able to do).
So there is a practical aspect to this as well. Ultimately, my gut feeling is that 'just' bag breathing would work, performed to 'mildly uncomfortable' but perhaps more frequently than 2-3x a day, more like 15-20x.
It is wise to start slowly however, particularly if there is any seizure potential, it would appear the biochemistry of seizure susceptibility can be more unstable and easily tipped in the wrong direction. Just mindfulness and conscious slowing down of breathing - if possible - is a better primer, then on to other methods like using the bag.
Best of luck
Sheila

Thank you for that information,

Sheila are you familiar with the "Training Mask"?

Amazon.com : Training Mask - Elevation High Altitude 2.0 : Sports & Outdoors

Do you think it could, similarly, be effective?

 

[Sheila]

Dear Dookie
I am not familiar with this mask, the one the Institutes use is (presumably much cheaper), a plastic version, essentially a good seal plastic bag with a small hole at the bottom (release excess condensation), around-ear elastic and no filter. It is also easy to clean, as with frequent use and saliva build up, hygiene is important. Charlie appears to have built a mask also see Charlie's Customized Bag Breathing Apparatus | Ray Peat Forum and as Dan Wich says here, High altitude mask? | Ray Peat Forum you want to be sure you're breathing CO2 not just restricting breathing with such a device.

At a cheaper price than the training mask, a Frolov device, depending on the physical ability available to the person, might also be a good option. I know people attaining interesting results with this and am about to try myself.
I am sorry that I do not know more at this point.
Sheila