Transitioning From Male To Female

[Momado965]

You're making very good points, but much of the factors you talk about set patterns during early development, and I don't think it can be altered (i.e. making a 180) by fixing the hormonal profile.

There are studies that cured the homosexual desire by administering dht derivatives or maybe plain dht. A study or two was brought up in this forum.

 

[mrchibbs]

There are studies that cured the homosexual desire by administering dht derivatives or maybe plain dht. A study or two was brought up in this forum.

I believe it conceptually, but I doubt it would be as easy in most cases.

And I haven't seen these studies personally, and am skeptical regarding the funding sources of such research

 

[ExD]

A homosexual can be timid or dominant that is not the argument.

No one is suggesting it is...

Timidity or dominance is a serotonergic state btw. Confidance and assertion are not the same thing as dominance. You can have all the mansex you as you put but that doesnt change the pathological state you are in and many homosexuals like youself.

Yeah, but what is the "pathological state" you keep going on about? What is it you mean?

You can try testosterone and dht or dht alone and with time your homosexual desire will subside.
Its been done before with dht derivatives and study is somewhere in this form.

I'd imagine it is elsewhere, too. Do you have any specifics? Maybe we can find it.

The study is not so surprising given that in a non pathological state a man will act like a man in every aspect of his life and this includes ******* and beding women which women enjoy very much. In a pathological state a man is less of a man and doesnt desire a women and often can not act like a man which is also discussed in this forum by some member who has become more masculine following haidut's advice on k2 and pansterone or maybe some other combination of supplement that improve androgens along with . The penis is meant to enter the vagina not the ***hole.

The penis is multi functional ime:P. I can use mine to pee, AND I can use it to make art in the snow. Is this art now pathological? Am I misusing my penis by making pee angels?

 

[mrchibbs]

I don't think there are any rules to pleasure, you can do anything you want with your penis, as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

 

[ExD]

I believe it conceptually, but I doubt it would be as easy in most cases.

And I haven't seen these studies personally, and am skeptical regarding the funding sources of such research

Hopefully it will turn up. It sounds very interesting.

Maybe he can remember some specifics on what they did?

I don't think there are any rules to pleasure, you can do anything you want with your penis, as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

Thanks ;o

 

[Momado965]

No. The male hormones do not determine sexuality. There are genes associated with attraction to both sexes and there is no correlation I've ever seen between genetics, sexuality, and whatever indeterminate pathology you are trying to describe.



Why u fink dat?

Homosexuality has two causative features; birth rate and prenatal stress - when the mother produces a lot of boys, the chances for gaybies goes up. When the mother is stressed during birth, the chance for gaybies also goes up.

This suggests gays are not malfunctioning, but are instead intended to look after and protect the family and primarily the mother in times of danger and stress. It is perhaps for this reason that homosexuality is also heavily associated with increased intelligence, compassion and cooperation - unlike their siblings who will fight and die to pass on strong genes, the gaybies grow up to protect the group and advance the tribe without the hindrance of kids.




Will it really tho? :S



I've already pointed out the correlation between mother's stress during pregnancy and increased gaybies, but I will also suggest that many environmental stressors and familial problems only arise because of general ignorance surrounding sex. That is, having a bad dad doesn't make you gay, but if you are gay, having a bad dad is probz not gonna help




Maybe...except I think people can abuse substances for all sorts of reasons. I mean, there is a thing called fun. It is great. Coffee?




Why did you choose to be heterosexual, instead of bisexual?

Stress can never breed a positive outcome.You said so yourself. Thus, homosexuality is a result of stress. Whether its a bad father ( Weak father and dominant mother or absent father (There are many article about this and colossal anecdotal evidence in all countries I dont know how you are not aware of this matter) ) or hormonal imprinting can be reversed. You are mistaken since hormones do affect attraction because they set the pattern in which genes express themselves. This is why ray peat says protective hormones such p4 p5 and dhea can reverse any pathological hormonal imprinting if one takes them long enough and the study in which homosexual were given dht and had their desire changed proves this. They used a high dht dose and this aligns well with what ray peat mentioned many time; in a pathological state mega doses of protective substances produce positive results. And yes. Men with low testosterone can not have sex with women and when give androgens their sexual function is restored. This has to do with stress enzymes shutting of and anti stress enzymes that are responsible for protective steroid to be turned on. There are herbs that can do that such as cistanche. The homosexual life style is not family centered at all and there has NEVER been case after case suggesting homosexual men protect and provide for their family. As far as substance abuse, coffee is not a drug but I'll go along with that. You should have asked yourself why is drug abuse is rampant in homosexual and transexual population and not in heterosexual population? By that I mean almost all (the majority) homosexuals and transexuals are drug abusers because their state is pathological and their pathology like any other pathology stems from stress WHEREAS in heterosexual population the majority are not drug abusers and the ones who abuse drugs are ones who are stressed. Your last question is hard to answer but I'll try my best to answer it without emotion but rather logic. I chose to be heterosexual because its the most sane, ordersome and coherent of all sexualities. It does not have the draw backs of the others.

 

[mrchibbs]

Stress can never breed a positive outcome.You said so yourself. Thus, homosexuality is a result of stress.

Not sure that's true. There's homosexual behaviour in every specie in similar proportions. There is probably an evolutionary reason for this.

 

[Momado965]

No one is suggesting it is...



Yeah, but what is the "pathological state" you keep going on about? What is it you mean?



I'd imagine it is elsewhere, too. Do you have any specifics? Maybe we can find it.



The penis is multi functional ime:P. I can use mine to pee, AND I can use it to make art in the snow. Is this art now pathological? Am I misusing my penis by making pee angels?

LOL I'd say yes your art is pathological since it is after all from a gay man. In all seriousness tho anything that is a result of stress is a pathology. Any pathological state is a result of stress. One rule to rule them all. You can read haidut's comment on this thread Lack of estrogen in brain causes bisexuality where he mention dht curing homosexuality. Protective hormones fixing hormonal imprint of stress. Just as Peat has professed.

 

[Momado965]

Not sure that's true. There's homosexual behaviour in every specie in similar proportions. There is probably an evolutionary reason for this.

Were those animals in captivity or in the wilderness? Thats the golden question.

 

[mrchibbs]

Were those animals in captivity or in the wilderness? Thats the golden question.

observed in the wilderness

 

[ExD]

Stress can never breed a positive outcome.You said so yourself.

Did I? Where?

Thus, homosexuality is a result of stress.

Again, I must ask, where? BIRTH is stressful...I mean, all human babies come in and cause huge stress, so how can stress never lead to a positive outcome? Why are you saying I said this?

Whether its a bad father ( Weak father and dominant mother or absent father (There are many article about this and colossal anecdotal evidence in all countries I dont know how you are not aware of this matter) ) or hormonal imprinting can be reversed.

What is hormonal imprinting?

Is there any scientific evidence? You've said there are possibly two on this forum?

You are mistaken since hormones do affect attraction because they set the pattern in which genes express themselves. This is why ray peat says protective hormones such p4 p5 and dhea can reverse any pathological hormonal imprinting if one takes them long enough and the study in which homosexual were given dht and had their desire changed proves this. They used a high dht dose and this aligns well with what ray peat mentioned many time; in a pathological state mega doses of protective substances produce positive results.

I find this very interesting, because I always assumed gay guys were capable of being into girls and most just identify so much with their gay stereotype that they lie to themselves and reinforce it via community I already pointed out that I can appreciate women sexually, but I do not want to mate with them, just as I have no desire to mate with heterosexual men. So reading this would be very interesting with regard hormones and sexually.

And yes. Men with low testosterone can not have sex with women and when give androgens their sexual function is restored. This has to do with stress enzymes shutting of and anti stress enzymes that are responsible for protective steroid to be turned on. There are herbs that can do that such as cistanche.

That's prob true. I was just being callous. Sorry.

The homosexual life style is not family centered at all and there has NEVER been case after case suggesting homosexual men protect and provide for their family.

I realize you see what you want, but I never mentioned the homosexual lifestyle. I mentioned the fact that homosexuals are genetically determined by the rate of male babies in a family and the stress of the mother during pregnancy and that homos are better team players, so concluding that they are born into families as a protective measure, isn't a giant leap in deduction. Considering this theory holds true across species that engage in pro social homosexuality, human beings seem to be the only one that doesn't intuitively grasp it.

As far as substance abuse, coffee is not a drug but I'll go along with that. You should have asked yourself why is drug abuse is rampant in homosexual and transexual population and not in heterosexual population. By that I mean almost all (the majority) homosexuals and transexuals are drug abusers because their state is pathological and their pathology like any other pathology stems from stress WHEREAS in heterosexual population the majority are not drug abusers and the ones who abuse drugs are ones who are stressed.

You're using the average person on the street as a basis for good metabolic health now? Because they don't use drugs they are therfore low stress, high energy people and we should all be like that or we are sick?

Am I understanding what you mean?

Your last question is hard to answer but I'll try my best to answer it without emotion but rather logic. I chose to be heterosexual because its the most sane, ordersome and coherent of all sexualities. It does not have the draw backs of the others.

Minireview: Hormones and Human Sexual Orientation

"There is no question of choice here. Data presented in this review strongly suggest that human beings do not choose to be heterosexual or homosexual."

Personally I disagree - I think every time I engage in gay sex I am choosing to be gay, just as everyone else is and that such behaviour, like anything, will reinforce itself. However, the alternative is repressing my sexuality, which just makes no sense.

I've never heard a single rational argument against homosexuality, so I continue to enjoy it until someone actually makes a solid point against it.

 

[Momado965]

observed in the wilderness

Were they in captivity then released into the wilderness?

 

[mrchibbs]

Were they in captivity then released into the wilderness?

nope

 

[Momado965]

Did I? Where?



Again, I must ask, where? BIRTH is stressful...I mean, all human babies come in and cause huge stress, so how can stress never lead to a positive outcome? Why are you saying I said this?



What is hormonal imprinting?

Is there any scientific evidence? You've said there are possibly two on this forum?




I find this very interesting, because I always assumed gay guys were capable of being into girls and most just identify so much with their gay stereotype that they lie to themselves and reinforce it via community I already pointed out that I can appreciate women sexually, but I do not want to mate with them, just as I have no desire to mate with heterosexual men. So reading this would be very interesting with regard hormones and sexually.



That's prob true. I was just being callous. Sorry.



I realize you see what you want, but I never mentioned the homosexual lifestyle. I mentioned the fact that homosexuals are genetically determined by the rate of male babies in a family and the stress of the mother during pregnancy and that homos are better team players, so concluding that they are born into families as a protective measure, isn't a giant leap in deduction. Considering this theory holds true across species that engage in pro social homosexuality, human beings seem to be the only one that doesn't intuitively grasp it.



You're using the average person on the street as a basis for good metabolic health now? Because they don't use drugs they are therfore low stress, high energy people and we should all be like that or we are sick?

Am I understanding what you mean?



Minireview: Hormones and Human Sexual Orientation

"There is no question of choice here. Data presented in this review strongly suggest that most human beings do not choose to be heterosexual or homosexual."

You said it in your former comment and in this comment and I quote you, 'stress of the mother during pregnancy'. Stress in the womb or outside causes homosexuality. After birth if a woman's body can not overcome stress then she is sick and as you know many women lose their hair after pregnancy and never to regain it back. That is bacause they became hypothyroid ie they couldnt be resiliant to stress ie stress produced a negative outcome like it always does if not challanged with protective hormones. The same goes with the babies. Google hormonal imprinting ray peat. I am basing it on heterosexual population since a minority abuse drugs while in the homosexual population its the majority who abuse drugs. Humans are one thing and animals are another. Yeah sure mostly do not choose to be either which is true since heterosexuality and homosexuality are not the same and each state dictates itself on a person.

 

[Momado965]

nope

Cool. I will look into this.

 

[mrchibbs]

Cool. I will look into this.

No problem, and don't mistake what I am saying: I definitely agree with you that there's hormonal imprinting in early development, but based on the evidence I've seen, a certain proportion of all animals seem to be homosexual and I think there is a normal evolutionary explanation for this. It may be that more people have disrupted sexual response in the modern world from the stressors every where, but there is fundamental process driving this I think.

 

[ExD]

You said it in your former comment and in this comment and I quote you, 'stress of the mother during pregnancy'. Stress in the womb or outside causes homosexuality.

I said there is correlation between prenatal stress and homosexuality which suggests that it is a direct response by the mother to imprint on her gaybie for the good of the family. eg, "gosh, I'm not in best shape and I sure could use a fabulous little helper to keep the fam alive"

...I never said stress can't lead to a good outcome, and therefore homosexuality is wrong

******* hell. Talk about lost in translation.

You are misleading memebrs.

How the tables turn :<

 

[Momado965]

I said there is correlation between prenatal stress and homosexuality which suggests that it is a direct response by the mother to imprint on her gaybie for the good of the family. eg, "gosh, I'm not in best shape and I sure could use a fabulous little helper to keep the fam alive"

...I never said stress can't lead to a good outcome, and therefore homosexuality is wrong

******* hell. Talk about lost in translation.



How the tables turn :<

The tables did not turn. I told you numerous times, stress drives pathology. Stress of all kinds if not overcome will always breed a negative outcome.

 

[mangoes]

That is not my base of my argument. The Y chromosome is symptomatic of a born male human. That is it. Y chromosone itself does not exert any androgenic effects in a sense if you were to isolate it and inject to men or women. The male hormones and their derivatives is what makes a man who is attracted to women an actual man. This is the general rule and anything otherwise is a pathology. A malfunctioning man is man who cannot desire a woman even he looks healthy because men and women are made for each other and any same sex desire is pathological. Some men with low testosterone due to stress are still into women but cannot bed them and as we know raising metabolism and improving androgens will make that happen. I will point to you how sick (in a medical sense) the homosexual/transexual community is. If you look at the gay community you will find it pathological in every sense because for one to be homosexual or transexual he has to undergo extreme stress whether its an absence of a father (stressful) or a domineering mother and a passive father (stressful) or molestation (stressful) and lastly and shity environment in the womb ( worst of them all and very stressful). It can be a combination of all these stressful factors. The gay community is very serotonergic, estrogenic, and cortisolic. Many gay folk abuse substances; the majority. We all know that abusing a substance is an attempt to control stress. Stress is sickness when prolonged and not dealt with protectively. Lastly, PCOS is an estrogenic state as androgens are anticystic and since its an estrogenic state then there is no wonder not every girl you know is straight.
- As far as choice goes then yes, we choose who we are attracted to whether one is heterosexual or pathologically homosexual/bisexual but this another seemingly related subject but its not.

no it’s an exaggeration and generalisation that “the majority” of gay people abuse drugs. Sure it’s rife on the scene. But if you go to a straight scene it’s just as rife lol. Non-scene queens generally don’t abuse drugs just like non scene straight people won’t. They’re called party drugs and people who go out and party take them. Gay straight and everything in between.

Do you really think every single gay person was either molested or lost a dad/domineering mom? Coz I know plenty who have two great parents.
many straight people are also “cortisolic, seretonergic, estrogenic.” You’re just generalising. Just like you can be a moron as a straight person, so can you be a moron if you’re a gay person. Same thing for states of health. It’s not mutually exclusive. You’re literally just generalising everything.

I’ve ****88 around with all the supplements you mentioned and no it hasn’t had an effect on my sexuality. And in fact I’ve consistently tested as low for estrogen for years. PCOS can include high estrogen but it causes high androgens like testosterone.

Stress can never breed a positive outcome.

eustress

I chose to be heterosexual because its the most sane, ordersome and coherent of all sexualities. It does not have the draw backs of the others.

I have never in my life heard a straight person say they chose to be straight. Sure you can choose who you have sex with, who you settle with, but you cannot choose who you’re attracted to. You find some people attractive and some people unattractive. It’s not a choice. I’m honestly beginning to wonder if you’re closeted with a big case of internal homophobia. You’re too rigid. Like everything is black and white and as if there’s a way things have to be. There’s variation everywhere. Even among animals in the wild like mentioned earlier. Among even people in the same groups. High androgens=straight just isn’t the reality. You need to get outside your paradigm and experience the joy of variance. maybe you should try ‘mansex’ some time, it might loosen up your experience

 

[mrchibbs]

@mangoes

Eustress is a different concept altogether. I would categorize it as challenge/stimulation.
We should be using stress to refer to factors causing a maladaptive response.