Transdermal/Topicals: Best Practices?

seano

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Let's use this thread to document the best practices for transdermal/topical delivery.

A few things that come to mind:

a) Ideal location(s) on body & timing for applying transdermal supplements?
b) Ingredients/formulation to maximize absorption (e.g. oils, msm, dmso, ...)?
c) Supplements which are most viable for transdermal delivery. Those that are not.
d) ...

Any topical or related topic is welcome: fat-soluble vitamins (A,D,K2,...), minerals (magnesium), hormones (progesterone), ...
I'll update this 1st post with collected agreement/answers


References:
- Journal: Regional Variation in Percutaneous Penetration in Man -- Howard I. Maibach MD , Robert J. Feldmann MD , Thomas H. Milby MD & William F. Serat PhD (1971) (thanks @Wilfrid)
- Slides: Slideshare: Penetration enhancers Used in transdermal drug delivery: Technical presentation. See last slide for many other references.
- Book: Topical Absorption of Dermatological Products by Robert L. Bronaugh and Howard I. Maibach (thanks @Wilfrid)
- Authors: Howard I. Maibach (pioneer in this area) (thanks @Wilfrid)
- Authors: Pr.Adrian Williams (thanks @Wilfrid)



RP & Community Quotes:
RP said:
post 113851
- The oily vitamins are well absorbed, but it depends on the skin, and how often the person washes. 5% is probably a typical absorption.
- Water soluble vitamins are poorly absorbed, but covering a large area a significant amount is absorbed.
- The legs, inner arms, tops of feet, and throat are good places for transdermal absorption."
 
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nograde

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Peat mentioned wrists, shins and feet.
 
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OP
seano

seano

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nograde said:
post 113621 Peat mentioned wrists, shins and feet.

Do you have reference? Or anyone found studies/evidence?

I'm beginning to adopt transdermal applications of fat soluble vitamins (due to lack of a gallbladder) and looking to maximize the uptake.
 
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sladerunner69

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I thought the skin was relatively thick around the feet? Wrists, underarm and thigh are what I often see recommended on topicals.

Anyone here tried topical pregnenelone vs oral?
 
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Wilfrid

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I used to do it on inner thighs and top of feets but now I will choose without hesitation the throat ( and neck areas ).
Below his RP answer to my question when I asked him about transdermal absorption rate and best places of application:

RP: " The oily vitamins are well absorbed, but it depends on the skin, and how often the person washes. 5% is probably a typical absorption. Water soluble vitamins are poorly absorbed, but covering a large area a significant amount is absorbed.
The legs, inner arms, tops of feet, and throat are good places for transdermal absorption.
"

b) -Oleic acid ( as in olive oil ), limonene and ascorbyl palmitate ( see Ray's reference in " Nutrition for women " , page 57, about the russians who discovered this substance and its transdermal enhancing property ) are very effective transdermal enhancers ( especially for oily soluble substances ) and are not, at least in the case of oleic acid and ascorbyl palmitate, strong skin irritants. I forgot to mention glycerin as well.
As for water soluble substances, ordinary water or even ( maybe more potent than water ) alcohol like vodka are good, I think.
 
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Wilfrid

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As for studies and evidence about this subject:

http://dlx.bookzz.org/genesis/1298000/f ... 20cb0/_as/[Hiren_J._Patel,_Darshan_G._Trivedi,_Anand_K._Bhan(BookZZ.org).pdf

http://libgen.io/scimag/get.php?doi=10. ... 1.10665987

Also, books written by one of the pioneer in this area: Howard I.Maibach ( author of the study above ) and also a very good book ( but almost impossible to find unless if you want to pay the price ) written by Pr.Adrian Williams.
Anyway, this one: Topical Absorption of Dermatological Products by Robert L. Bronaugh and Howard I. Maibach should answer to most of your interrogations. :D
 
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Grapeson

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I've just made my own SolBan concoction using DMSO instead of alcohol. I'm curious if the concentrations of Niacinamide(4%), Caffeine(1%), and Aspirin(1%) can be increased to quicken hair growth, or if increasing these substances would be a waste or stressful. Also, I've heard T3 can be beneficial topically as well. Would T3 dissolve in this solution as well? If so, do you have a recommended concentration? Thank you!
 

sladerunner69

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From my personal experience with lifeflo DHEA cream, rotating between the neck, underarms, and tops of my feet, have been the most effective spots for application.
 

Dragon

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- Penetration-rate can be enhanced up to 100X simply by disturbing the outermost layer of skin with a brush. Search pubmed for the study. They used a rotating brush..and from memory, I think they found the asymptote at around 60 seconds.

No, I do NOT suggest chucking up a rotary wire-brush in your DeWalt cordless... :)

However, any regular hairbrush, toothbrush, or cleaning brush, with relatively stiff bristles, should be effective.

For topical treatment of my wife's breast cancer, we use a little plastic cleaning scrub-brush, or the scratchy green-side of a new (i.e. clean) kitchen sponge....for perhaps 30 seconds. Any longer than that and it begins to feel painful to her. Basically, if your choice of brush/device makes your skin slightly 'rough', and pinkish, it's doing the job.
Then rub on/in your topical solution.

- Going from memory again (lo siento), a man's scrotum is the most permeable skin of the body, by a large margin.

- Emu oil is one of the very best penetrating carriers 'from-nature', (for oil-solubles, obviously).

- Studies show that Emu oil speeds up and improves wound-healing...but only if applied a day or two AFTER the wounding. It turns out that if Emu oil is applied the same day as the wound, it actually SLOWED healing (!). So if you're making a topical specifically for some kind of 'healing', then perhaps emu is a poor choice of carrier.

- Terpenes are surprisingly effective penetration-enhancers.

- I have dozens of papers on transdermal drug delivery, but I don't know if there's an upload-area here...and I don't think I'm allowed to upload at this point anyway.

- I've tried glycerin-based solutions on my skin, and I wouldn't call that a good basis for topicals. Just my opinion. It doesn't seem to soak in...just stays as a sticky-icky coating on my skin. Also, it makes a solution higher in viscosity.

- In general, the higher the viscosity, the slower the diffusion of your solute through the mass of applied solution and into the skin. Thick goop is nice for staying in place, but I estimate that, in the general/average case, nothing but the layer against the skin gets absorbed.
I think all the rest of the goop/gel/cream usually gets rubbed off somehow, by life's activities, before the active substance in the outer layers can diffuse/migrate through the thick goop to the skin-surface to be absorbed.

- Iontophoresis can be very effective, especially for difficult water-soluble compounds, and it's delightfully easy to accomplish (even with dirt-cheap 'household' materials/items)...for a serious TDL'er (transdermaller) it's worth looking into, imho.

well, I hope this adds a little to the thread.

ps; great topic! something I've been interested in for many years. thanks to the OP.

dragon
 
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Giraffe

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I have dozens of papers on transdermal drug delivery, but I don't know if there's an upload-area here...and I don't think I'm allowed to upload at this point anyway.
Do you see the button "Upload a File" down where the button "Post Reply" is?
 

Dragon

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Do you see the button "Upload a File" down where the button "Post Reply" is?

I have not been able to find an uploads/files area or place or page.

I looked through the 'buttons' across the top of the page....i.e., home, forums, resources, members, etc., but I couldn't find a/the "Files" area.

I do see the 'upload' button tonight, yes.
 

Gl;itch.e

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- Penetration-rate can be enhanced up to 100X simply by disturbing the outermost layer of skin with a brush. Search pubmed for the study. They used a rotating brush..and from memory, I think they found the asymptote at around 60 seconds.
Thank you Dragon. You have reminded me to try brushing with my topicals. I always mean to get a brush and try this to see the difference but I always forget.
 

Giraffe

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@Dragon, you can attach files to a post. Don't know though if the size of your documents could be an issue.
 

Dragon

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@Dragon, you can attach files to a post. Don't know though if the size of your documents could be an issue.

hi Giraffe,

If I'm understanding that right....you're saying there actually isn't an "uploads" or "files" area for members....and that the "upload" button is actually attaching a file to a post, not uploading it into a 'directory' or 'folder' of files that other members can see/access.

If this is the case, it seems kind of cumbersome for donating/contributing dozens or hundreds of files. I'll go ahead and try it with a single paper tho, to see if it works for me, and learn how to use it best.

If, on the other hand, I've interpreted your reply wrongly, please pardon, and rephrase for me.

ps; in regards to size, journal papers generally run 500KB to 5MB. A few papers run up to 20MB. Most of the handbooks and textbooks that I have are 3MB to 30MB.....with some running to 60-80MB.
So if the size limit for an attachment is less than 1000KB, that will prevent contribution of most of the papers (i.e. 'scientific studies') that I have.
 

Dragon

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ok, trying the attachment thingy....

This is not the paper specifically about skin-brushing as permeation enhancer, but it IS about enhancing permeation via physical techniques, and it's one of the most useful reviews of this field that I've seen. Hope it's of help for some...

dragon

HAIR-DDEL-Transdermal-Delivery--Skin-Perturbation-Systems.pdf
 

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lifestyle

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Old thread, but I think it makes sense to post some questions here so others searching in the future have more information in one place.

I've searched quite a bit, and have been unable to find some transdermal basics that most seem to take for granted.

1) Do you apply the transdermal to your skin with your finger?
2) How long do most transdermals take to absorb into the skin? For example: a low viscosity transdermal made using SFA esters and ethanol, or DMSO.
3) If the body part with the transdermal applied may come in contact with something/someone else, how long before contact is safe?
4) How long should one wait before washing the area to ensure there is no skin-to-skin cross contamination while still getting maximum benefit from the transdermal?
 
B

Braveheart

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Old thread, but I think it makes sense to post some questions here so others searching in the future have more information in one place.

I've searched quite a bit, and have been unable to find some transdermal basics that most seem to take for granted.

1) Do you apply the transdermal to your skin with your finger?
2) How long do most transdermals take to absorb into the skin? For example: a low viscosity transdermal made using SFA esters and ethanol, or DMSO.
3) If the body part with the transdermal applied may come in contact with something/someone else, how long before contact is safe?
4) How long should one wait before washing the area to ensure there is no skin-to-skin cross contamination while still getting maximum benefit from the transdermal?
you are right...one would think w all these topical supps there would be some general basics in their own thread for reference....
 

Wolf

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Always be aware of local enzyme activity.
 

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