Toxic DHT: can DHT ever be too high from scrotal T?

[Hans]

Toxic DHT: can DHT ever be too high? » TESTONATION

Can topical scrotal testosterone cause toxic levels of DHT? What does the research show? Read to find out!

men-elite.com

 

[abentabet]

Toxic DHT: can DHT ever be too high? » TESTONATION

Can topical scrotal testosterone cause toxic levels of DHT? What does the research show? Read to find out!

men-elite.com

Great article as always @Hans
But confused by this part of the article :

1. It doesn’t cause as long term suppression compared to T injections with a long ester. LH will be back to normal in roughly 24 hours after T application.

If this is really the case (about the suppression), I will not hesitate to take break my natty status

 

[Hans]

Great article as always @Hans
But confused by this part of the article :

If this is really the case (about the suppression), I will not hesitate to take break my natty status

Thanks man.
Yeah, the reason T injections cause suppression is due to the long half life. If the half life is 3 hours, LH will be back to 50% after 3 hours. The shorter the half-life, the shorter the suppression. That's why with nasal T, you have to dose like 3 times a day.

 

[Mister]

Great article Hans!

 

[blackface]

@Hans Thank you for the summary.

Im using about 300 mg test base and 100 mg DHT (split into two dosages) transdermally every day and its great. Also Im waiting for my DHEA powder so I can start using that.

I think that its a simple and cheap way how to improve your life.

If anyone is interested just go through this thread or ask @Santosh who is expert on this matter.

Testosterone levels on oral test base

Anyone measured their test levels on oral test base? I'm getting tired of rubbing cream and DMSO everyday. So I went ahead and ordered (a lot) more testosterone base powder to try an oral experiment. No idea how to calibrate the dose, I have no idea how it absorbs orally. I will probably start...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Miggie]

@Hans Thank you for the summary.

Im using about 300 mg test base and 100 mg DHT (split into two dosages) transdermally every day and its great. Also Im waiting for my DHEA powder so I can start using that.

I think that its a simple and cheap way how to improve your life.

If anyone is interested just go through this thread or ask @Santosh who is expert on this matter.

Testosterone levels on oral test base

Anyone measured their test levels on oral test base? I'm getting tired of rubbing cream and DMSO everyday. So I went ahead and ordered (a lot) more testosterone base powder to try an oral experiment. No idea how to calibrate the dose, I have no idea how it absorbs orally. I will probably start...

raypeatforum.com

What are you using as a vehicle to apply these mixtures?

what are you noticing in terms of effects? is the 300mg test base compareable to injecting 300mg test suspension?

Currently using some dht powder sublingual and it seems to be increasing the dht by the looks of it. retaining less water and seem to be leaning out.

 

[Hans]

Great article Hans!

Thanks for reading!

 

[Hans]

@Hans Thank you for the summary.

Im using about 300 mg test base and 100 mg DHT (split into two dosages) transdermally every day and its great. Also Im waiting for my DHEA powder so I can start using that.

I think that its a simple and cheap way how to improve your life.

If anyone is interested just go through this thread or ask @Santosh who is expert on this matter.

Testosterone levels on oral test base

Anyone measured their test levels on oral test base? I'm getting tired of rubbing cream and DMSO everyday. So I went ahead and ordered (a lot) more testosterone base powder to try an oral experiment. No idea how to calibrate the dose, I have no idea how it absorbs orally. I will probably start...

raypeatforum.com

Nice! I definitely think that's a much better protocol than injections, due to better natural rhythm. Do you know how high your T and DHT are on that protocol?

 

[Osukhan]

Great article as always @Hans
But confused by this part of the article :

If this is really the case (about the suppression), I will not hesitate to take break my natty status

you and me both , LOL

 

[Ami]

@Hans Thank you for the summary.

Im using about 300 mg test base and 100 mg DHT (split into two dosages) transdermally every day and its great. Also Im waiting for my DHEA powder so I can start using that.

I think that its a simple and cheap way how to improve your life.

If anyone is interested just go through this thread or ask @Santosh who is expert on this matter.

Testosterone levels on oral test base

Anyone measured their test levels on oral test base? I'm getting tired of rubbing cream and DMSO everyday. So I went ahead and ordered (a lot) more testosterone base powder to try an oral experiment. No idea how to calibrate the dose, I have no idea how it absorbs orally. I will probably start...

raypeatforum.com

Shouldn't you be getting plenty of DHT from the transdermal T alone?

 

[blackface]

Nice! I definitely think that's a much better protocol than injections, due to better natural rhythm. Do you know how high your T and DHT are on that protocol?

I dont have blood test results on this protocol but Im planning to do it in January. My only results are from testosterone prop which were not much impressive, total test was slightly above 900 (24h after last application). But thats because the ester is not able to penetrate the skin.

But I would highly recommned you to try it.

 

[Santosh]

Toxic DHT: can DHT ever be too high? » TESTONATION

Can topical scrotal testosterone cause toxic levels of DHT? What does the research show? Read to find out!

men-elite.com

It's not really the way to look at it.

When you go to high scrotal T doses that skyrocket DHT, your e2 get tanked and you feel lethargic.

You also don't have a good ratio of precursor androgens which don't get incrased, like androsterone, androstenedione and DHEA.

Adding transdermal DHEA increases massively those precursor androgens and gives you much more balanced cognitive benefits which doesn't appear on scrotal T.

On scrotal T you become a dumb raging bull.

On scrotal DHEA you are an astute, smart and flexible leopard with quick reflexes and empathy.

 

[Immanency]

On scrotal DHEA you are an astute, smart and flexible leopard with smart reflexes and empathy.

looooooooooooooooooooool beautifull and funny

 

[Hans]

It's not really the way to look at it.

When you go to high scrotal T doses that skyrocket DHT, your e2 get tanked and you feel lethargic.

You also don't have a good ratio of precursor androgens which don't get incrased, like androsterone, androstenedione and DHEA.

Adding transdermal DHEA increases massively those precursor androgens and gives you much more balanced cognitive benefits which doesn't appear on scrotal T.

On scrotal T you become a dumb raging bull.

On scrotal DHEA you are an astute, smart and flexible leopard with quick reflexes and empathy.

E2 doesn't get tanked on scrotal T, at least that's what the studies show. It's less than injection for sure, but it still goes up with scrotal application.
Agreed with using precursors, due to shutdown. Nice descriptions. But there was a study where they used 50mg topical DHEA for 5 days and then after 5 weeks after stopping, their hormones kept on changing (lots of fluctuation). That's why I'm not a big fan of high-dose topical DHEA and it might be a good idea to add preg and prog as well.

 

[Hans]

I dont have blood test results on this protocol but Im planning to do it in January. My only results are from testosterone prop which were not much impressive, total test was slightly above 900 (24h after last application). But thats because the ester is not able to penetrate the skin.

But I would highly recommned you to try it.

I might try topical T perhaps, but the main reason why I'd use a strong androgen is for hypertrophy and exercise recovery and studies have shown that topical isn't as good as an injection. So I'm not sure how much of a difference I'd feel when I'm already feeling really good and then add topical T. Also, then I'd have to continually do tests to keep an eye on my E2 and add in precursor hormones, etc. I don't feel like it's worth the hassle. If someone is low T, then I'm sure this is the best option.

 

[Santosh]

E2 doesn't get tanked on scrotal T, at least that's what the studies show.

Hans, I'm talking real life experience playing with all hormones known to man for the past 4 years, all transdermally.

Regardless of what studies tell you, I can assure you that scrotal T tanks e2 big time and that the T:e2 ratio becomes all screwed up, assessed by blood tests and self-awareness.

If one wants a good balance of transdermal hormones, a little T and lots of DHEA on the belly fat is where the game is at.

 

[Hans]

Hans, I'm talking real life experience playing with all hormones known to man for the past 4 years, all transdermally.

Regardless of what studies tell you, I can assure you that scrotal T tanks e2 big time and that the T:e2 ratio becomes all screwed up, assessed by blood tests and self-awareness.

If one wants a good balance of transdermal hormones, a little T and lots of DHEA on the belly fat is where the game is at.

I do appreciate good anecdotes and I'm not trying to disqualify you. Studies look at the results of a lot of people with a specific intervention. Yes, there are a lot of interindividual differences, but on average, E2 goes up with scrotal T.
What T dose did you use in what solvent that tanked E2? How low did E2 go?
What would you classify as a little T and lots of DHEA?
Where is your E2 now?

 

[Santosh]

I do appreciate good anecdotes and I'm not trying to disqualify you. Studies look at the results of a lot of people with a specific intervention. Yes, there are a lot of interindividual differences, but on average, E2 goes up with scrotal T.
What T dose did you use in what solvent that tanked E2? How low did E2 go?
What would you classify as a little T and lots of DHEA?
Where is your E2 now?

In the end what really matters is how you feel.

In your article you have only outlined numbers, at no point did you outline what the implications of those numbers are healthwise or moodwise.

Not trying to disqualify you either, just telling every one who reads this thread : experiment as much as you can on yourself and keep being self-aware of every slight change.
I also thought I needed DHT through the roof after listening to Dr Keith Nichols and Georgi Dinkov.

Turns out estrogens make me feel a lot better than DHT, because I lack estrogens after abusing Exemestane.

The next guy reading your article might actually feel good from DHT, but it's not an absolute truth either way.

 

[Hans]

In the end what really matters is how you feel.

In your article you have only outlined numbers, at no point did you outline what the implications of those numbers are healthwise or moodwise.

Not trying to disqualify you either, just telling every one who reads this thread : experiment as much as you can on yourself and keep being self-aware of every slight change.
I also thought I needed DHT through the roof after listening to Dr Keith Nichols and Georgi Dinkov.

Turns out estrogens make me feel a lot better than DHT, because I lack estrogens after abusing Exemestane.

The next guy reading your article might actually feel good from DHT, but it's not an absolute truth either way.

For sure. I wasn't trying to make the point that you need sky-high DHT, but rather if it was a problem from scrotal application.
Do you perhaps know where your E2 and E1 are atm and where you feel best?

 

[tallglass13]

I might try topical T perhaps, but the main reason why I'd use a strong androgen is for hypertrophy and exercise recovery and studies have shown that topical isn't as good as an injection. So I'm not sure how much of a difference I'd feel when I'm already feeling really good and then add topical T. Also, then I'd have to continually do tests to keep an eye on my E2 and add in precursor hormones, etc. I don't feel like it's worth the hassle. If someone is low T, then I'm sure this is the best option.

I have noted and read that topical T in DMSO is just as good or better that injections.