ilovethesea
Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2013
- Messages
- 1,115
Everything I've read about retinoids talks about how they "increase collagen production" and that's why they work so well to decrease wrinkles.
(Actually I think pretty much every anti aging product makes this promise now, that more collagen = better skin)
This study says that retinoids increase procollagen in order to form Type I, III, and IV collagen. The mechanism of action of topical retinoids. - PubMed - NCBI
But Ray seems to think collagen production is bad and associated with aging.
For example here Aging, estrogen, and progesterone, he says "Estrogen, by creating an oxygen deficiency, stimulates first swelling, and then collagen synthesis. Collagen tends to accumulate with aging."
So in that case, how are retinoids actually working? If they really did increase collagen like estrogen does, wouldn't this make the skin look worse not better? I don't think they make the skin swell like estrogen does, in fact there are studies showing retinoids actually decrease skin thickness.
So could the research be wrong and retinoids are working by some other mechanism?
I know in the email exchanges Ray has warned against Retin A making it harder to absorb vitamin A from food and that there was a study that showed a correlation to increased mortality. But he has also suggested applying retinyl palmitate topically, so he must see some benefit to topical retinoids at least at low doses.
Can anyone shed any light on this? @Orion?
(Actually I think pretty much every anti aging product makes this promise now, that more collagen = better skin)
This study says that retinoids increase procollagen in order to form Type I, III, and IV collagen. The mechanism of action of topical retinoids. - PubMed - NCBI
But Ray seems to think collagen production is bad and associated with aging.
For example here Aging, estrogen, and progesterone, he says "Estrogen, by creating an oxygen deficiency, stimulates first swelling, and then collagen synthesis. Collagen tends to accumulate with aging."
So in that case, how are retinoids actually working? If they really did increase collagen like estrogen does, wouldn't this make the skin look worse not better? I don't think they make the skin swell like estrogen does, in fact there are studies showing retinoids actually decrease skin thickness.
So could the research be wrong and retinoids are working by some other mechanism?
I know in the email exchanges Ray has warned against Retin A making it harder to absorb vitamin A from food and that there was a study that showed a correlation to increased mortality. But he has also suggested applying retinyl palmitate topically, so he must see some benefit to topical retinoids at least at low doses.
Can anyone shed any light on this? @Orion?