Topical Propecia/Finasteride For Hair Loss

[jondoeuk]

Has anyone tried this (either by itself or with other typical products and found that) and found that it not only helped slow down or reverse hair loss, but also there were no side-effects associated which may happen with the oral version?

 

[Luis aguilar]

Has anyone tried this (either by itself or with other typical products and found that) and found that it not only helped slow down or reverse hair loss, but also there were no side-effects associated which may happen with the oral version?

Hopefully someone who has replies soon

 

[victormgc]

I think that applying it on scalp might decrease allopregnanolone levels even more than taking it orally...

 

[MyUsernameHere]

All topical Finasteride preparations tested (even those made with advanced formulations) have been shown to go systemic in studies. You might as well be taking the oral version. As someone who has been dealing with Post-Finasteride syndrome for the past 4 years, I do not recommend that you touch this drug in any way, shape or form.

Regarding allopregnanolone, since Finasteride is not supposed to inhibit 5-AR1, it should not do that, at least not directly. The problem has mainly been observed in people who have persisting side effects after quitting, where there is likely a negative-feedback event that occurs after the sharp return of DHT which essentially drastically downregulates the 5-AR1 in the CNS. This is then the cause of persistent brain-fog and a host of other neurological issues. I have them, and believe me, you do not want them.

 

[Luis aguilar]

All topical Finasteride preparations tested (even those made with advanced formulations) have been shown to go systemic in studies. You might as well be taking the oral version. As someone who has been dealing with Post-Finasteride syndrome for the past 4 years, I do not recommend that you touch this drug in any way, shape or form.

Regarding allopregnanolone, since Finasteride is not supposed to inhibit 5-AR1, it should not do that, at least not directly. The problem has mainly been observed in people who have persisting side effects after quitting, where there is likely a negative-feedback event that occurs after the sharp return of DHT which essentially drastically downregulates the 5-AR1 in the CNS. This is then the cause of persistent brain-fog and a host of other neurological issues. I have them, and believe me, you do not want them.

Thank you I am pretty afraid of this stuff already

Im considering topically applying WAY 316606 just would like more info from experimentors before purchasing

 

[MyUsernameHere]

WAY-316606 is a rather narrow-acting drug which acts on one of the factors that can inhibit the WNT pathway. The safety testing data is lacking so it's questionable what the long-term consequences are. I've spoken to some people who've used it and even though it 'seems' to be reasonably safe I haven't seen that many success stories using it alone.

 

[Luis aguilar]

WAY-316606 is a rather narrow-acting drug which acts on one of the factors that can inhibit the WNT pathway. The safety testing data is lacking so it's questionable what the long-term consequences are. I've spoken to some people who've used it and even though it 'seems' to be reasonably safe I haven't seen that many success stories using it alone.

Damn I badly wanted this to work, Im becoming more skeptical tho, thanks for the input

 

[tallglass13]

Pardon me and I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but the title should read "topical Propecia/finasteride for hair growth".

 

[ilhanxx]

I tried, Topical route is very effective, but only %0.1 dosage is able to make me insomniac. But side effects gone. This is a suicidal drug. It is not worth to take risk. If you make lipozomal fin, some people say that it is not going systemic.

 

[Vegancrossfit]

I don’t think 5ar inhibition is the answer to hair loss for all men, because I think hair loss can be cortisol/adrenal driven and DHT in this scenario would go up to reduce the effect of stress hormones (High shbg typically). Which is very different from metabolic syndrome patients whose DHT is high alongside estrogen because of insulin resistance (low shbg typically).

I’m not surprised @ilhanxx reports insomnia. DHT most likely blocked cortisol/adrenaline driven sleep issues. Now stress is unobstructed and you can’t relax.

IMO if you want to regrow hair you have to address the root cause of hair loss which is far more complex... your best bet would be the anti stress approach + always try to increase glucose oxidation + scalp blood flow.

Anecdotally I had BETTER hair on TRT without finasteride compared to off everything. I have Serum cortisol borderline high and Salivary cortisol over the range. I wonder if male baldness in high cortisol patients is due to insufficient androgen output. Cue half of finasteride patients being non responders (hair loss stabilized at best) and a decent % experiencing low androgen side effects.

 

[DhtAssassin]

I don’t think 5ar inhibition is the answer to hair loss for all men, because I think hair loss can be cortisol/adrenal driven and DHT in this scenario would go up to reduce the effect of stress hormones (High shbg typically). Which is very different from metabolic syndrome patients whose DHT is high alongside estrogen because of insulin resistance (low shbg typically).

I’m not surprised @ilhanxx reports insomnia. DHT most likely blocked cortisol/adrenaline driven sleep issues. Now stress is unobstructed and you can’t relax.

IMO if you want to regrow hair you have to address the root cause of hair loss which is far more complex... your best bet would be the anti stress approach + always try to increase glucose oxidation + scalp blood flow.

Anecdotally I had BETTER hair on TRT without finasteride compared to off everything. I have Serum cortisol borderline high and Salivary cortisol over the range. I wonder if male baldness in high cortisol patients is due to insufficient androgen output. Cue half of finasteride patients being non responders (hair loss stabilized at best) and a decent % experiencing low androgen side effects.

And yet if you look at studies, 5ar inhibition stop hairloss for like 90 percent of men.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

And yet if you look at studies, 5ar inhibition stop hairloss for like 90 percent of men.

And the side effect rate is only 2% and permanent side effects are unheard of.

I don't think that those studies give a very accurate perspective of what happens in reality. If you look at hair loss forums you will see evidence of that - a good amount of people fail on Finasteride and have to move to something stronger like Dutasteride or flat out androgen receptor blockers like Spiro and Bicalutamide, those are the more insane cases.

In any case it is not the 5AR inhibition that helps but the reduction of DHT. This is the list of all the collateral damage you are causing in your body by inhibiting that enzyme:

So that is what you are putting on the chopping block - sacrificing 10 hormones just to get rid of 1 that is actually implicated in hair loss. Madness.

IF I was going to use anything anti-androgenic for hair loss at this point it would probably only be S-Equol since it can be used topically reasonably well and is supposed to bind to ONLY DHT, while not touching 5 alpha reductase at all. It is also an estrogen beta agonist in itself and hence would stimulate regrowth. The only problem is the price.

 

[Vegancrossfit]

And yet if you look at studies, 5ar inhibition stop hairloss for like 90 percent of men.

Thanks for correcting me my “50% non responder” wasn’t accurate

Does Finasteride Work For a Receding Hairline?

So if you look at real world data, one third of the patients don’t regrow hair. It’s mostly known for stalling hair loss.

@MyUsernameHere its obvious that hair loss forum people are a concentrate of patients who experienced side effects and aren’t to be trusted as a valid sample of the general population. If you want a bunch of positive response to those drugs go to Reddit: r/tressless. You want estrogen Beta agonists just consume phyto estrogens like the Asians

 

[Luis aguilar]

And the side effect rate is only 2% and permanent side effects are unheard of.

I don't think that those studies give a very accurate perspective of what happens in reality. If you look at hair loss forums you will see evidence of that - a good amount of people fail on Finasteride and have to move to something stronger like Dutasteride or flat out androgen receptor blockers like Spiro and Bicalutamide, those are the more insane cases.

In any case it is not the 5AR inhibition that helps but the reduction of DHT. This is the list of all the collateral damage you are causing in your body by inhibiting that enzyme:

View attachment 18872

So that is what you are putting on the chopping block - sacrificing 10 hormones just to get rid of 1 that is actually implicated in hair loss. Madness.

IF I was going to use anything anti-androgenic for hair loss at this point it would probably only be S-Equol since it can be used topically reasonably well and is supposed to bind to ONLY DHT, while not touching 5 alpha reductase at all. It is also an estrogen beta agonist in itself and hence would stimulate regrowth. The only problem is the price.

Do you really believe this drug S-Equol would help with hairgrowth? Would you use it yourself if the price werent an issue and you had hairloss?

 

[tallglass13]

And the side effect rate is only 2% and permanent side effects are unheard of.

I don't think that those studies give a very accurate perspective of what happens in reality. If you look at hair loss forums you will see evidence of that - a good amount of people fail on Finasteride and have to move to something stronger like Dutasteride or flat out androgen receptor blockers like Spiro and Bicalutamide, those are the more insane cases.

In any case it is not the 5AR inhibition that helps but the reduction of DHT. This is the list of all the collateral damage you are causing in your body by inhibiting that enzyme:

View attachment 18872

So that is what you are putting on the chopping block - sacrificing 10 hormones just to get rid of 1 that is actually implicated in hair loss. Madness.

IF I was going to use anything anti-androgenic for hair loss at this point it would probably only be S-Equol since it can be used topically reasonably well and is supposed to bind to ONLY DHT, while not touching 5 alpha reductase at all. It is also an estrogen beta agonist in itself and hence would stimulate regrowth. The only problem is the price.

Thanks for the chart. However, how do we know its even DHT then. Travis wrote that it might be 5a-dihydrocotisol. Also, people including my self did not see any increase in hair worsening with DHT or 11 keto DHT. Haidut mentioned he did not get any reports of hair worsening on DHT. I think fin and Dut work by blocking another hormone other that DHT, and according to the chart we have 10 choices of the possible culprit.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

@tallglass13

Mostly from in vitro experiments with DHT on hair follicles, hair regrowth from other androgen-receptor blockers (which don't affect 5a-reductase and other 5a-reduced hormones), and the fact that castration prevents pattern baldness.

It is speculated that it is only the DHT produced in the hair follicle that matters, so exogenous DHT applied topically or orally might not be that much of a contributor. Creatine and sorghum do make my hair loss worse though, possibly because they upregulate 5a-reductase in the entire body.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Do you really believe this drug S-Equol would help with hairgrowth? Would you use it yourself if the price werent an issue and you had hairloss?

I do believe because I tested the racemic version (R,S)-equol and it gave great results but it also caused me gyno. I do have hair loss, that's why I wrote above that I used Finasteride and developed PFS after quitting it.

I think S-Equol would be safer but you'd need 10-20 mg daily topically and the price is prohibitive, also there are very few suppliers outside of shady Chinamen who will sell you god knows what.

 

[Luis aguilar]

I do believe because I tested the racemic version (R,S)-equol and it gave great results but it also caused me gyno. I do have hair loss, that's why I wrote above that I used Finasteride and developed PFS after quitting it.

I think S-Equol would be safer but you'd need 10-20 mg daily topically and the price is prohibitive, also there are very few suppliers outside of shady Chinamen who will sell you god knows what.

Alright thank you, also then whats your take of tooical ketoconazole doeant that also reduce DHT? Wouldnt a leave on cream be highly effective?

 

[Infarouge]

After decades of messing with fin I found it best to use it with an aromatase inhibitor and a low dose pro-androgen (DHEA 1-5mg sublingual). Start with the lowest effective fin dose (.05mg/day!!) and titre up until you feel or see sides in semen quality, then back off to about 50%. You don't want anywhere near complete DHT inhibition, just to "cool off" the pathway. You body will adjust to it after week or two.

Topical scalp doses can be much higher (10x) without affecting free testosterone and IMHO is the way to go. Combine with a robust exercise routine and you won't experience any problems. Tons of gym rats and other alpha dudes have used it for decades with no problems. It's one of the few scripts Trump was reported on and his hair is quite rocking for his age, plus his energy level is like a freight train.

Like all substances dose makes the poison. Fin is quite safe when used properly and probably has numerous systemic benefits other than hair health (prostate, anti-tumor, etc). Hair quality is a visible indicator of systemic health, and preserving it is a general indicator of a healthy hormonal balance.

 

[Vegancrossfit]

Thanks for the chart. However, how do we know its even DHT then. Travis wrote that it might be 5a-dihydrocotisol. Also, people including my self did not see any increase in hair worsening with DHT or 11 keto DHT. Haidut mentioned he did not get any reports of hair worsening on DHT. I think fin and Dut work by blocking another hormone other that DHT, and according to the chart we have 10 choices of the possible culprit.

5 dihydrocortisol would make the most sense. I think it’s worth investigating this hormone, since typically 5a derivatives are more potent than the mother hormone.

as of now the overwhelming evidence is on the anti androgen side. The best anabolic for pretty hair skin and prostate is nandrolone... progesterone receptor agonist and dihydro-nandrolone is so weak it is basically castration.