Topical DHEA for muscle growth and strength gains

[Spartan300]

It could be that you have desensitized GR in the hypothalamus. Have you ever tested ACTH and 24 hour cortisol?

First time anyone has offered a theory on this Hans so I'm very grateful and keen to know more.

I've not had those tests but I'll discuss with my GP.

Ahead of that discussion do you know of corrective action that may help?

 

[Hans]

My rationale is that a large dose like that could trickle down into testosterone in sufficient amounts that I don't have to also take testosterone.
My natty test levels are only 400ng/dl, if I could get them to 800ng/dl with DHEA only I'd be happy.

Only about 1.5% of DHEA is converted to testosterone, which makes DHEA is a very poor precursor. I would rather focus on dietary and lifestyle factors first.

 

[Hans]

First time anyone has offered a theory on this Hans so I'm very grateful and keen to know more.

I've not had those tests but I'll discuss with my GP.

Ahead of that discussion do you know of corrective action that may help?

If 24-hour cortisol is elevated all the time (way above range) and ACTH is low/normal, then it might be an adrenal tumor. If ACTH is also high, then the hypothalamus is overactive, which means that cortisol is not inhibiting CRH release, which likely means that your GR is desensitized. Emodin has been shown to upregulate the GR again. There are other compounds as well.

 

[Spartan300]

I really appreciate this, thankyou. The situation has come about over the last 8ish years, a period of intense stress so I feel there's some mileage here.

I'll see if I can get the tests done, thanks again

 

[Hans]

I really appreciate this, thankyou. The situation has come about over the last 8ish years, a period of intense stress so I feel there's some mileage here.

I'll see if I can get the tests done, thanks again

? I'm sure it will give you a good idea of what to address next.

 

[Hans]

I really appreciate this, thankyou. The situation has come about over the last 8ish years, a period of intense stress so I feel there's some mileage here.

I'll see if I can get the tests done, thanks again

Forgot to ask, did you check LH, FSH, prolactin and GH (IGF-1) are well?

 

[baccheion]

My rationale is that a large dose like that could trickle down into testosterone in sufficient amounts that I don't have to also take testosterone.
My natty test levels are only 400ng/dl, if I could get them to 800ng/dl with DHEA only I'd be happy.

DHEA can sometimes increase testosterone indirectly via increasing estrogen. The T:E2 ratio is the same, though. Even a few mg has the effect. Another option is full replacement. That is, DHEA can agonise the androgen receptor. IIRC, it's 20 mg DHEA for 1 mg T? You can look that up. Fairly certain it then leads to 100s of mg per day (sustained release).

 

[opethfeldt]

Anyone know if DHEA is converted to DHT in meaningful quantities in the testes? The enzymes needed to convert it seem to be present, so I don't see why not.

 

[Spartan300]

Forgot to ask, did you check LH, FSH, prolactin and GH (IGF-1) are well?

Of those only prolactin was measured: Serum prolactin level 208 miu/L [0.0 - 500.0]

 

[Hans]

DHEA can sometimes increase testosterone indirectly via increasing estrogen. The T:E2 ratio is the same, though. Even a few mg has the effect. Another option is full replacement. That is, DHEA can agonise the androgen receptor. IIRC, it's 20 mg DHEA for 1 mg T? You can look that up. Fairly certain it then leads to 100s of mg per day (sustained release).

How does estrogen increase testosterone? Estrogen lowers testosterone by inhibiting LH release. Only about 1.5% of DHEA is converted to testosterone, it's really ineffective for a male.

 

[Hans]

Anyone know if DHEA is converted to DHT in meaningful quantities in the testes? The enzymes needed to convert it seem to be present, so I don't see why not.

It does convert mostly to 5 alpha reduced steroids yes, namely androsterone, androstanediol, 3a-diol and 3b-diol.

 

[baccheion]

How does estrogen increase testosterone? Estrogen lowers testosterone by inhibiting LH release. Only about 1.5% of DHEA is converted to testosterone, it's really ineffective for a male.

There was a study showing increased hormone levels as a result of DHEA. Everything.. doubled? That is, the T:E2 ratio remained the same.

 

[Hans]

There was a study showing increased hormone levels as a result of DHEA. Everything.. doubled? That is, the T:E2 ratio remained the same.

If you can find it, can you share it? DHEA increases testosterone a lot in women, but that's because their T is so low to begin with. It increases T to the same extent in men, but since we have a lot more T, it barely makes a dent.

 

[76er]

What are the recommended body parts for DHEA topical application?

 

[Hans]

What are the recommended body parts for DHEA topical application?

I apply it on the muscles I train. So if I do sprints and weights, it's quads, shoulders and chest.

 

[76er]

I apply it on the muscles I train. So if I do sprints and weights, it's quads, shoulders and chest.

Ok, Interesting.

I did purchase a bottle of the BHRT Naturals topical DHEA.

I'm just finishing up my oral DHEA and then I'll report back after I try topical for a month or two.

I was planning on 25mg daily of topical.

 

[Hans]

Ok, Interesting.

I did purchase a bottle of the BHRT Naturals topical DHEA.

I'm just finishing up my oral DHEA and then I'll report back after I try topical for a month or two.

I was planning on 25mg daily of topical.

Excited to hear about your experience.

 

[Chophouse360]

@Hans where do you put it on your body?

 

[rr1]

Ok, Interesting.

I did purchase a bottle of the BHRT Naturals topical DHEA.

I'm just finishing up my oral DHEA and then I'll report back after I try topical for a month or two.

I was planning on 25mg daily of topical.

I would be weary of using even more than 5mg to start with. Some people notice benefits from as little as 2-3mg topically. Remember that it converts to estrogen in excess

 

[Hans]

@Hans where do you put it on your body?

Chest, shoulders and legs mostly.