Topical DHEA for hair loss?!?

[Vajra]

Microneedling has shown to regrow hair in studies all by itself. It is very hard to say if the DHEA and Progesterone is working at all. Any opinions on this ?

Source? If you're talking about this study, then FYI, the microneedling group still took minox, just only 24 hours after microneedling. I actually haven't seen any testimonies that reversed MPB with only microneedling, without adding a little something else.

 

[tallglass13]

Source? If you're talking about this study, then FYI, the microneedling group still took minox, just only 24 hours after microneedling. I actually haven't seen any testimonies that reversed MPB with only microneedling, without adding a little something else.

No , I am not referring to that study. Actually, before I provide Source, the PHH program is using Massage and microneedling, producing some hair growth. I also did not say anything about "reversing MPB". Just some hair regrowth from scalp injury.
Ray Peat has spoken about injury to scalp causes some hair growth .

 

[Gungnir]

I wish @Gungnir all the best. However, this experiment will be hard to tell which is working. Since he is also incorporating microneedling. Microneedling has shown to regrow hair in studies all by itself. It is very hard to say if the DHEA and Progesterone is working at all. Any opinions on this ?

I think the most logical conclusion would be that both micro-needling and topical DHEA+Progesterone increased hair growth.

 

[tallglass13]

I think the most logical conclusion would be that both micro-needling and topical DHEA+Progesterone increased hair growth.

Of course. It is just that some people are cautious about using DHEA. It is a bit controversial. DHEA does go to estrogen through the pathway, and some are very sensitive to this, such as myself. I want it to work, I am hoping it works, please don't get me wrong. My point is that Microneedling is one of the treatments , one of the very FEW treatments that actually can grow some hair. The DHEA thing is only because Ray had mentioned it. I am definitely a follower on your thread and am cheering for you and your results!

 

[Gungnir]

If one were to use CortiNon, is the best choice the one dissolved in SFA esters/ethanol, or the one in tocopherols w/ SFA?

I ditto this question.

 

[BrianF]

I think that there's a Bulgarian guy on here who can answer that one..

 

[Vajra]

How is absorption of Progest-E if one were to apply it to the temples? 20%? I tried it a few times and the stickiness went away within a few hours. If it's reasonable, I think I'll start taking it with 4mg of DHEA in fractionated coconut oil, if this product is good.

 

[Jack Earth]

I wish @Gungnir all the best. However, this experiment will be hard to tell which is working. Since he is also incorporating microneedling. Microneedling has shown to regrow hair in studies all by itself. It is very hard to say if the DHEA and Progesterone is working at all. Any opinions on this ?

Completely agree. People do these massive protocols makes it hard to figure which is producing the results(if any) and which are useless.
Phh has shown regrowth in certain people that ONLY did daily aggressive scalp massage no change in diet no drugs and no topicals.
Others he added some anti dht diet protocols and recently minoxidil too.
But op is doing scalp massages plus microneedle. No way to tell if his diet supplements and topical are responsible or not unless he did isolated experiments like phh does with their clients.

 

[Gungnir]

Completely agree. People do these massive protocols makes it hard to figure which is producing the results(if any) and which are useless.
Phh has shown regrowth in certain people that ONLY did daily aggressive scalp massage no change in diet no drugs and no topicals.
Others he added some anti dht diet protocols and recently minoxidil too.
But op is doing scalp massages plus microneedle. No way to tell if his diet supplements and topical are responsible or not unless he did isolated experiments like phh does with their clients.

Once again... the most logical conclusion is that the "massive" protocol as a whole is producing the results.

Scalp massage = regrows hair
Microneedling = regrows hair
DHEA + progesterone = regrows hair (unless of course, Ray Peat is just full of ***t... in which case why are we on this forum?)

 

[Jack Earth]

Once again... the most logical conclusion is that the "massive" protocol as a whole is producing the results.

Scalp massage = regrows hair
Microneedling = regrows hair
DHEA + progesterone = regrows hair (unless of course, Ray Peat is just full of ***t... in which case why are we on this forum?)

Just because he may be wrong about something doesnt mean hes FOS. He doesnt focus on hairloss. Did RP tell you to do scalp massages or did you learn that from phh? Why do anything that rp didnt suggest then?

 

[Gungnir]

Just because he may be wrong about something doesnt mean hes FOS. He doesnt focus on hairloss. Did RP tell you to do scalp massages or did you learn that from phh? Why do anything that rp didnt suggest then?

Just because he may be wrong about something doesnt mean hes FOS. He doesnt focus on hairloss.

It is irrelevant to me whether he focuses on hair loss. He focuses on the whole human body as far as I am concerned. But he makes BIG claims about alopecia and its causes. So I am not going to say "Oh well Ray can be wrong about hair loss because that isn't really his thing."

He has said on multiple occasions that DHEA + Progesterone affects the scalp (and other areas) in such a way that vellus hairs turn to terminal ones (aka regrowth). That statement is either true or false. If it is false, then Ray Peat would be FOS. But Ray is humble and will just say "I don't know" when asked about something he is not sure about. That was NOT the case when asked about hair regrowth.

Did RP tell you to do scalp massages or did you learn that from phh?

I have no idea what PHH is, so I cannot comment on that. I learned about scalp massages from the numberless articles on the internet about ways to reduce hair loss. Scalp massages are not a secret and are not part of some unique method. It is a simple concept of massaging the scalp for stimulation and increased blood flow. And in my opinion, it should be a part of any hair loss routine. Danny Roddy has also mentioned it as a possible way to break up calcification/fibrosis in the scalp. And since Danny filters everything through Ray's teachings, I'd say it is quite "Peatish" to massage your own scalp, or at least it is not anti-Peat to do scalp massages.

The same goes for micro-needling, which has shown good results when used in conjunction with topicals to increase absorption, and arguably it induces stem cells to create new follicles. Also, Ray has admitted that damaging the scalp can create new hair follicles, as he mentioned the man that had his scalp burned in a house fire and ended up with a "full head of hair." That is not to say that Ray recommends strategically damaging the scalp, but that he has admitted that it can result in new follicles.

Why do anything that rp didnt suggest then?

I don't understand what this means. I do things, generally speaking, that Ray Peat suggests. If he has never made a comment on, for example, eating Cinnamon... then I may or may not eat Cinnamon. But I won't wait for the green light from Ray before I eat Cinnamon. But if he says (or has said) Cinnamon wrecks your thyroid function (and has good reasoning for it), then I will likely not consume it.

As for hair loss remedies, I've combined two very simple and effective ones (massage + micro-needling) with Ray Peat's claim that topical DHEA+Progesterone will revert vellus hairs back to terminal ones. Are you suggesting that I should put myself into a controlled vacuum of doing only one thing at a time for 6 months at a time? That is not even possible. Should I stop doing cardio now? Because that might affect the experiment results. What about Ginkgo Biloba, should I stop taking that as well? Maybe it is actually the Ginkgo causing the regrowth.

 

[Jack Earth]

Just because he may be wrong about something doesnt mean hes FOS. He doesnt focus on hairloss.

It is irrelevant to me whether he focuses on hair loss. He focuses on the whole human body as far as I am concerned. But he makes BIG claims about alopecia and its causes. So I am not going to say "Oh well Ray can be wrong about hair loss because that isn't really his thing."

He has said on multiple occasions that DHEA + Progesterone affects the scalp (and other areas) in such a way that vellus hairs turn to terminal ones (aka regrowth). That statement is either true or false. If it is false, then Ray Peat would be FOS. But Ray is humble and will just say "I don't know" when asked about something he is not sure about. That was NOT the case when asked about hair regrowth.

Did RP tell you to do scalp massages or did you learn that from phh?

I have no idea what PHH is, so I cannot comment on that. I learned about scalp massages from the numberless articles on the internet about ways to reduce hair loss. Scalp massages are not a secret and are not part of some unique method. It is a simple concept of massaging the scalp for stimulation and increased blood flow. And in my opinion, it should be a part of any hair loss routine. Danny Roddy has also mentioned it as a possible way to break up calcification/fibrosis in the scalp. And since Danny filters everything through Ray's teachings, I'd say it is quite "Peatish" to massage your own scalp, or at least it is not anti-Peat to do scalp massages.

The same goes for micro-needling, which has shown good results when used in conjunction with topicals to increase absorption, and arguably it induces stem cells to create new follicles. Also, Ray has admitted that damaging the scalp can create new hair follicles, as he mentioned the man that had his scalp burned in a house fire and ended up with a "full head of hair." That is not to say that Ray recommends strategically damaging the scalp, but that he has admitted that it can result in new follicles.

Why do anything that rp didnt suggest then?

I don't understand what this means. I do things, generally speaking, that Ray Peat suggests. If he has never made a comment on, for example, eating Cinnamon... then I may or may not eat Cinnamon. But I won't wait for the green light from Ray before I eat Cinnamon. But if he says (or has said) Cinnamon wrecks your thyroid function (and has good reasoning for it), then I will likely not consume it.

As for hair loss remedies, I've combined two very simple and effective ones (massage + micro-needling) with Ray Peat's claim that topical DHEA+Progesterone will revert vellus hairs back to terminal ones. Are you suggesting that I should put myself into a controlled vacuum of doing only one thing at a time for 6 months at a time? That is not even possible. Should I stop doing cardio now? Because that might affect the experiment results. What about Ginkgo Biloba, should I stop taking that as well? Maybe it is actually the Ginkgo causing the regrowth.

Ok good luck

 

[Vajra]

It's probably important to take DHEA and prog at the exact same time, right?

 

[tallglass13]

Just because he may be wrong about something doesnt mean hes FOS. He doesnt focus on hairloss.

It is irrelevant to me whether he focuses on hair loss. He focuses on the whole human body as far as I am concerned. But he makes BIG claims about alopecia and its causes. So I am not going to say "Oh well Ray can be wrong about hair loss because that isn't really his thing."

He has said on multiple occasions that DHEA + Progesterone affects the scalp (and other areas) in such a way that vellus hairs turn to terminal ones (aka regrowth). That statement is either true or false. If it is false, then Ray Peat would be FOS. But Ray is humble and will just say "I don't know" when asked about something he is not sure about. That was NOT the case when asked about hair regrowth.

Did RP tell you to do scalp massages or did you learn that from phh?

I have no idea what PHH is, so I cannot comment on that. I learned about scalp massages from the numberless articles on the internet about ways to reduce hair loss. Scalp massages are not a secret and are not part of some unique method. It is a simple concept of massaging the scalp for stimulation and increased blood flow. And in my opinion, it should be a part of any hair loss routine. Danny Roddy has also mentioned it as a possible way to break up calcification/fibrosis in the scalp. And since Danny filters everything through Ray's teachings, I'd say it is quite "Peatish" to massage your own scalp, or at least it is not anti-Peat to do scalp massages.

The same goes for micro-needling, which has shown good results when used in conjunction with topicals to increase absorption, and arguably it induces stem cells to create new follicles. Also, Ray has admitted that damaging the scalp can create new hair follicles, as he mentioned the man that had his scalp burned in a house fire and ended up with a "full head of hair." That is not to say that Ray recommends strategically damaging the scalp, but that he has admitted that it can result in new follicles.

Why do anything that rp didnt suggest then?

I don't understand what this means. I do things, generally speaking, that Ray Peat suggests. If he has never made a comment on, for example, eating Cinnamon... then I may or may not eat Cinnamon. But I won't wait for the green light from Ray before I eat Cinnamon. But if he says (or has said) Cinnamon wrecks your thyroid function (and has good reasoning for it), then I will likely not consume it.

As for hair loss remedies, I've combined two very simple and effective ones (massage + micro-needling) with Ray Peat's claim that topical DHEA+Progesterone will revert vellus hairs back to terminal ones. Are you suggesting that I should put myself into a controlled vacuum of doing only one thing at a time for 6 months at a time? That is not even possible. Should I stop doing cardio now? Because that might affect the experiment results. What about Ginkgo Biloba, should I stop taking that as well? Maybe it is actually the Ginkgo causing the regrowth.

Gungnir, Firstly , I thank you for participating , and making your thread and pictures. I think you may be taking the critiques a bit to personally though. Do exactly what you want to do, for sure. However, we are just commenting on your thread. Microneedling can be painful, as I have one that is very sharp. And I may not want to do it, but may continue for the fact that it may grow some hair. Now, If I knew that Progest/DHEA worked all on its own, I may very happily drop the microneedleing and just do the topical. Ray has always cautioned about DHEA, and that is all really I am concerned about, since I am susceptible to aromatization, more that others. I follow Ray closely like you, and I trust and believe in him, Seeing is believing however, and If more people or even Ray produced before and after photos using only DHEA/progesterone for hair growth, that would be very helpful. Hair growth is the hardest ailment to cure, so there is much skepticism when it comes to this subject. You have improved your hair, no question about that, and for you, that is all that matters.
I guess my major concern is I don't know if DHEA will make my hair worse in the long run. As DHEA is almost always high is PCOS and in Balding. DHEA increases the androgens and the estrogens.

 

[BrianF]

Gungnir, Firstly , I thank you for participating , and making your thread and pictures. I think you may be taking the critiques a bit to personally though. Do exactly what you want to do, for sure. However, we are just commenting on your thread. Microneedling can be painful, as I have one that is very sharp. And I may not want to do it, but may continue for the fact that it may grow some hair. Now, If I knew that Progest/DHEA worked all on its own, I may very happily drop the microneedleing and just do the topical. Ray has always cautioned about DHEA, and that is all really I am concerned about, since I am susceptible to aromatization, more that others. I follow Ray closely like you, and I trust and believe in him, Seeing is believing however, and If more people or even Ray produced before and after photos using only DHEA/progesterone for hair growth, that would be very helpful. Hair growth is the hardest ailment to cure, so there is much skepticism when it comes to this subject. You have improved your hair, no question about that, and for you, that is all that matters.
I guess my major concern is I don't know if DHEA will make my hair worse in the long run. As DHEA is almost always high is PCOS and in Balding. DHEA increases the androgens and the estrogens.

I suspect that with DHEA , aromatizaion will be dose dependant. Pretty sure I've read to that effect on this forum. I think the ratio in cortinon might be favourable and for designed specifically to avoid aromitization.

 

[Gypsumking]

@Gungnir intrigued to know how your dhea and progesterone experiment is going. Did you continue the protocol? Did you have continued progression?

 

[Gungnir]

@Gungnir intrigued to know how your dhea and progesterone experiment is going. Did you continue the protocol? Did you have continued progression?

Here is a pic I took 10 minutes ago. The lighting is not exactly the same since I’m not in my office. I go back to work next week and I can take one with more similar lighting once I’m back in my office. You be the judge (my older pics can be found earlier in this thread).

And yes… still doing the regiment.

 

[Gypsumking]

Here is a pic I took 10 minutes ago. The lighting is not exactly the same since I’m not in my office. I go back to work next week and I can take one with more similar lighting once I’m back in my office. You be the judge (my older pics can be found earlier in this thread).

And yes… still doing the regiment.

I think there has definitely been continued progress. Great to see. You should def stick with it. You can't expect miracles considering the areas were completely bad but there's definitely been some regrowth and hopefully it continues.

Have you been applying the progesteron and dhea just to the frontal part of the scalp still or to the entire crown now? Have you continued the microneedling aswell?

 

[Gungnir]

I think there has definitely been continued progress. Great to see. You should def stick with it. You can't expect miracles considering the areas were completely bad but there's definitely been some regrowth and hopefully it continues.

Have you been applying the progesteron and dhea just to the frontal part of the scalp still or to the entire crown now? Have you continued the microneedling aswell?

From what I can tell, I have many more hairs now than I did previously. Though many of them are very light-colored, I do believe they will darken in time.

I only apply it to the front hairline. I do microneedle still, but only once a month.

Also, I started the new Idealabs harmalan product when it came out. I take 6 drops per day. It may or may not be relevant, but I just wanted to mention it.

 

[johnwester130]

Will progesterone convert to cortisol and aldosterone

Has anyone tried just DHEA alone