Topical DHEA for hair loss?!?

[Jack Earth]

Got really tired and wanted to sleep. A few times headache. I was putting one pump on my head daily but full disclosure it had borage seed oil, MSM, ginseng, and red clover in it too

Was definitely not what Ray suggested which is dhea and prog in olive oil

 

[Vajra]

I just use a 3:2 ratio of Progesterone to DHEA. I use a brand called Biolabs Pro. I also use a derma stamp (1.5mm) about once a month on the same area. Also I need to add... I don't use a full pump when I put it on. I use like 1/5 of a pump of each when I apply it each night... so it lasts me a long time.

BIOLabs PRO® Natural P75 MAXX

Original 720p 360p This is the strongest, most effective, and highest concentration per bottle of Progest Cream on the market.*BIOLabs PRO® P75 Maxx with Retinol - Natural Progest 75mg Cream™ is the top choice and highest recommended.* Original 1080p 720p 540p 224p ✔ 75mg per pump, 60+ day...

biolabspro.com

BIOLabs PRO® Natural 50mg Dhea Cream

Now You Can Help Balance Your Mind, Body, and Emotions Naturally, Safely, and Effectively From The Comfort Of Your Home. You may be thinking, is DHEA supplementation right for me? Are you a Man or Woman wanting to support improved sleep, mood and weight loss? Are you an athlete wanting to...

biolabspro.com

That's a lot of other ingredients.

 

[Gungnir]

That's a lot of other ingredients.

Therefore?

 

[Vajra]

Therefore?

Therefore, maybe something else is giving you a boost or maybe even inhibiting hair growth. Why'd you choose this product? Have you looked into some of this other stuff like the radish, maca root, fenugreek, horny goat weed, etc.?

 

[Gungnir]

Therefore, maybe something else is giving you a boost or maybe even inhibiting hair growth. Why'd you choose this product? Have you looked into some of this other stuff like the radish, maca root, fenugreek, horny goat weed, etc.?

I already addressed this earlier in this thread, but I will explain it again.

When I began this experiment I did not know Idealabs existed, which is the only company I know of that sells pure dissolved DHEA and progesterone (CortiNon). So I went with the best thing I could find at the time which, in my opinion, was Biolabs Pro. While there are other ingredients in it, I think their amounts are quite minuscule in proportion to the amount of hormone in the bottle. I could be wrong, but that is what I chose at the time and I stuck with it for 6 months (see pics).

I find it kind of odd though that no one (that I know of) has done this experiment with CortiNon yet. If Ray is correct, wouldn't CortiNon literally be the cure to male pattern hair loss?

And if I switch to CortiNon, which I am considering doing for the next 6 months of this experiment, which solvent do you think I should use?

(these questions are for everyone here, not just @Vajra; everyone's input is helpful)

 

[Jack Earth]

I already addressed this earlier in this thread, but I will explain it again.

When I began this experiment I did not know Idealabs existed, which is the only company I know of that sells pure dissolved DHEA and progesterone (CortiNon). So I went with the best thing I could find at the time which, in my opinion, was Biolabs Pro. While there are other ingredients in it, I think their amounts are quite minuscule in proportion to the amount of hormone in the bottle. I could be wrong, but that is what I chose at the time and I stuck with it for 6 months (see pics).

I find it kind of odd though that no one (that I know of) has done this experiment with CortiNon yet. If Ray is correct, wouldn't CortiNon literally be the cure to male pattern hair loss?

And if I switch to CortiNon, which I am considering doing for the next 6 months of this experiment, which solvent do you think I should use?

(these questions are for everyone here, not just @Vajra; everyone's input is helpful)

Ray doesn't focus on hairloss specifically. He casually mentioned seeing regrowth in people applying dhea and progesterone to their scalp in olive oil.
He also mentioned caffeine would do the same thing and that it's less messy.
He also mentioned controlling your pth.

It's one small part of a large issue.
People here are skeptical of idealabs for hair issues since the owner is bald. That may be stupid thinking but it is what it is.

The best posts on this topic are from posters here.
They suggest trying everything at the same time. Lifestyle, diet, agressively breaking down the calcification, posture, sun, red lights and topicals.
Topicals alone aren't going to be enough unless of course you're using drugs like minoxidil.

 

[Vajra]

I find it kind of odd though that no one (that I know of) has done this experiment with CortiNon yet. If Ray is correct, wouldn't CortiNon literally be the cure to male pattern hair loss?

Well, Cortinon isn't available on idealabs as of right now. If I try this combo I'll probably use progest-E and a generic DHEA cream/solvent, but cortinon is a 3:1 ratio of prog to DHEA, in which case if you want to increase the ratio, you can just use that + progest-E

 

[JamesGatz]

Ray doesn't focus on hairloss specifically. He casually mentioned seeing regrowth in people applying dhea and progesterone to their scalp in olive oil.
He also mentioned caffeine would do the same thing and that it's less messy.
He also mentioned controlling your pth.

It's one small part of a large issue.
People here are skeptical of idealabs for hair issues since the owner is bald. That may be stupid thinking but it is what it is.

The best posts on this topic are from posters here.
They suggest trying everything at the same time. Lifestyle, diet, agressively breaking down the calcification, posture, sun, red lights and topicals.
Topicals alone aren't going to be enough unless of course you're using drugs like minoxidil.

I agree with this. As my metabolic state has improved, my hairline has continuously had regrowth and I now have the same hairline and thickness from my early teens - probably even better looking at old pictures of myself.

DHEA gives me estrogenic effects even at low doses and is difficult to combat - From my personal experience as you increase your metabolism, you will achieve the same result. My hair only starts appearing thinner when my estradiol and/or serotonin get high - this never happens when my metabolic state is ideal - This is my experience

 

[Gungnir]

I agree with this. As my metabolic state has improved, my hairline has continuously had regrowth and I now have the same hairline and thickness from my early teens - probably even better looking at old pictures of myself.

DHEA gives me estrogenic effects even at low doses and is difficult to combat - From my personal experience as you increase your metabolism, you will achieve the same result. My hair only starts appearing thinner when my estradiol and/or serotonin get high - this never happens when my metabolic state is ideal - This is my experience

Have you ever posted before and after pics on this website?

 

[Gungnir]

I agree with this. As my metabolic state has improved, my hairline has continuously had regrowth and I now have the same hairline and thickness from my early teens - probably even better looking at old pictures of myself.

DHEA gives me estrogenic effects even at low doses and is difficult to combat - From my personal experience as you increase your metabolism, you will achieve the same result. My hair only starts appearing thinner when my estradiol and/or serotonin get high - this never happens when my metabolic state is ideal - This is my experience

Have you ever posted before and after pics on this website?

@JamesGatz "I'll take 'Things That Never Happened' for $600!"

 

[JamesGatz]

@JamesGatz "I'll take 'Things That Never Happened' for $600!"

LOL I'm not insecure I have nothing to benefit from by lying about this on here- I am not fond of posting/sending pictures of myself on a public forum. If you don't want to believe that it happened that's not really an issue of mine - but it happened and hair loss is most certainly reversible in my opinion/experience (to the extent I guess is what is debatable)

 

[Gungnir]

LOL I'm not insecure I have nothing to benefit from by lying about this on here- I am not fond of posting/sending pictures of myself on a public forum. If you don't want to believe that it happened that's not really an issue of mine - but it happened and hair loss is most certainly reversible in my opinion/experience (to the extent I guess is what is debatable)

It is just pictures of your hair, not your face. But yeah cool story bro we all believe you regrew your receded hairline back to your early teens hairline.

 

[JamesGatz]

It is just pictures of your hair, not your face. But yeah cool story bro we all believe you regrew your receded hairline back to your early teens hairline.

Thanks BRO that means a lot, I made up that story so I can feel validated and to make my fellow forum members proud LOL

 

[MattFord]

@Gungnir Thanks for the update, this looks promising. I have issues with scalp burning/itching. I am pretty early in the balding process and If I have interpreted this correctly, its the start of fibrosis after the inflammatory response.

I have just tried progesterone only cream which seems very healthy for my scalp and limits itching. I have done bloods for serum progesterone and have:

0.62 nmol/L progesterone lower reference is at 0.9 so I am very low.

Estrogen at 21 so pretty good, lower reference

Testo: 750 ng

Did you suffer from an inflamed scalp woth itching etc? How much of a difference does adding dhea make to progesterone?

Thanks!

 

[BrianF]

@Gungnir Thanks for the update, this looks promising. I have issues with scalp burning/itching. I am pretty early in the balding process and If I have interpreted this correctly, its the start of fibrosis after the inflammatory response.

I have just tried progesterone only cream which seems very healthy for my scalp and limits itching. I have done bloods for serum progesterone and have:

0.62 nmol/L progesterone lower reference is at 0.9 so I am very low.

Estrogen at 21 so pretty good, lower reference

Testo: 750 ng

Did you suffer from an inflamed scalp woth itching etc? How much of a difference does adding dhea make to progesterone?

Thanks!

At the 'itching / burning' stage, you might find that anti-fungals help slow down the process. There is a good thread that mentions a few very good options. @johnwester seemed to be quite knowledgeable about this subject. I followed his lead on a few products.

I personally also used white iodine applied topically (be careful as it can create an unpleasant hyperthyroid effect if you use too much). Id use it may twice a week to begin with for a week and then once a week for a few more weeks and your scalp should be in a much better condition after that.

 

[MattFord]

At the 'itching / burning' stage, you might find that anti-fungals help slow down the process. There is a good thread that mentions a few very good options. @johnwester seemed to be quite knowledgeable about this subject. I followed his lead on a few products.

I personally also used white iodine applied topically (be careful as it can create an unpleasant hyperthyroid effect if you use too much). Id use it may twice a week to begin with for a week and then once a week for a few more weeks and your scalp should be in a much better condition after that.

Thanks, Ive tried ketokonazole/miconazole and olamine but my scalp gets so easily irritated by them and I have found they dont help long term. As they are often with compunded with other stuff.

I did try oral flucanozole since I have oral thrush (mild) and that got me total itch relief for a few hours. Not a long term alt either though. This itch was not present during finasteride use and I believe it has something to do with less androgens being availible for the fungus to feed on.

I tried to use the search function but couldnt find the thread you referred to.

If you have more info, or if @johnwester130 could chime in it would be much appreciated.

Regarding iodine, I have lugols solution at hand. Would that be benificial if diluted in some way? Did you manage to decrease shedding and stabilize the situation?

Edit: Found the thread and have read it. Actually bought the Kingsley product recommended there. But it didnt help soo much, rather than sebum overpriduction I suffer from a dry/itchy flaky scalp. That may be why it didnt work in my case.
I did try the lugols iodine on itchy parts of the scalp, and the symptoms lessened quite a bit!

 

[Gungnir]

@Gungnir Thanks for the update, this looks promising. I have issues with scalp burning/itching. I am pretty early in the balding process and If I have interpreted this correctly, its the start of fibrosis after the inflammatory response.

I have just tried progesterone only cream which seems very healthy for my scalp and limits itching. I have done bloods for serum progesterone and have:

0.62 nmol/L progesterone lower reference is at 0.9 so I am very low.

Estrogen at 21 so pretty good, lower reference

Testo: 750 ng

Did you suffer from an inflamed scalp woth itching etc? How much of a difference does adding dhea make to progesterone?

Thanks!

Hairloss hit me really hard starting in 2018. I was skipping breakfast every day and drinking coffee on an empty stomach. I was also stressed at work. I don't know if I had scalp inflammation, but the top of my scalp (the balding zone) used to itch like crazy, especially during high-stress periods. I was ignorant at the time about stress hormones, so I would just scratch the hell out of my head and not think anything of it. I tried minoxidil during that time and it honestly just made my hair worse. It did not work AT ALL. Since then, I have adopted many of Peat's ideas into my life, began scalp tension massages, and the progesterone/DHEA application. I supplement with things like CA/MG/ZN, Vitamin D, Vitamin A, B complex, Vitamin K, and Ginkgo Biloba.

As for your question about adding DHEA to progesterone, I don't know the difference as I have always mixed them together. I've never tried progesterone alone. I was just following Dr. Peat's suggestion on how to turn vellus hairs to terminal ones. I don't understand the biochemistry behind why it works. Hopefully, he will explain it one day (or maybe he has and someone here can reference it).

 

[BrianF]

Thanks, Ive tried ketokonazole/miconazole and olamine but my scalp gets so easily irritated by them and I have found they dont help long term. As they are often with compunded with other stuff.

I did try oral flucanozole since I have oral thrush (mild) and that got me total itch relief for a few hours. Not a long term alt either though. This itch was not present during finasteride use and I believe it has something to do with less androgens being availible for the fungus to feed on.

I tried to use the search function but couldnt find the thread you referred to.

If you have more info, or if @johnwester130 could chime in it would be much appreciated.

Regarding iodine, I have lugols solution at hand. Would that be benificial if diluted in some way? Did you manage to decrease shedding and stabilize the situation?

Edit: Found the thread and have read it. Actually bought the Kingsley product recommended there. But it didnt help soo much, rather than sebum overpriduction I suffer from a dry/itchy flaky scalp. That may be why it didnt work in my case.
I did try the lugols iodine on itchy parts of the scalp, and the symptoms lessened quite a bit!

In my opinion, the foundation of any scalp improvement or hairloss routine is liver. Im assuming that the vitamin a plays the biggest role in this but the other nutrients will also be valuable. I dont think anything will work well if you're not taking care of this factor.

After that, on a secondary or 'topical level', ie treating the symptoms of the cause, antifungals will help. Iodine is a powerful antifungal but might also be rough on your skin. So be paying attention to its effects.

Ive also been told that iodine can turn problematic transdermal pufa into saturated fat but i can't confirm that was my experience. I couldn't possibly.

 

[Vajra]

If one were to use CortiNon, is the best choice the one dissolved in SFA esters/ethanol, or the one in tocopherols w/ SFA?

 

[tallglass13]

I wish @Gungnir all the best. However, this experiment will be hard to tell which is working. Since he is also incorporating microneedling. Microneedling has shown to regrow hair in studies all by itself. It is very hard to say if the DHEA and Progesterone is working at all. Any opinions on this ?