Tooth Decay Question

[Borz]

I saw this quote from Ray Peat about preventing tooth decay from all the sugar:

"I use baking soda, and I rinse my mouth after having sugar, orange juice, etc. The quality of the saliva, regulated mainly by the thyroid hormone, is the main factor in dental health. My newsletter on osteoporosis mentioned some of the studies on thyroid, estrogen, and tooth decay."

Does he mean he rinses his mouth with water that has baking soda in it after each sugar intake? or just uses plain water without baking soda? and uses the baking soda for brushing daily?

I'm already using a toothpaste with baking soda in it daily. Is rinsing with plain water after each sugar intake enough or should I be adding baking soda to that water too?

 

[Attakai]

Baking soda in the water would be more beneficial than plain water, but even better than that would be xylitol(mints or gum) after you're completely done eating/drinking.

 

[baccheion]

Need to keep saliva flowing. Sugars affect neurotransmitters in a way that shut off saliva flow. Need to then raise acetylcholine/histamine, an effect had by sufficient thyroid hormone levels. Mouth rinsing is then a superficial action.

If liquids have a pH over 6.5 (if there's exposed dentin) or 5.5 (if there isn't), they won't be corrosive. Sugars directly on teeth aren't problematic if the mouth is sterile. Derangement blocking salivary flow isn't an issue if hormone/neurotransmitters are increased to restore salivary flow.

I drank orange juice alone = dry mouth. I drank orange juice fortified with calcium (calcium increases acetylcholine, supposedly) = saliva flowing after 10s of minutes.

 

[schultz]

I saw this quote from Ray Peat about preventing tooth decay from all the sugar:

"I use baking soda, and I rinse my mouth after having sugar, orange juice, etc. The quality of the saliva, regulated mainly by the thyroid hormone, is the main factor in dental health. My newsletter on osteoporosis mentioned some of the studies on thyroid, estrogen, and tooth decay."

Does he mean he rinses his mouth with water that has baking soda in it after each sugar intake? or just uses plain water without baking soda? and uses the baking soda for brushing daily?

I'm already using a toothpaste with baking soda in it daily. Is rinsing with plain water after each sugar intake enough or should I be adding baking soda to that water too?

Extrapolating from interviews, I think he means just water. Baking soda in the water would be fine as well, and probably better, but when an interviewer asked him he said plain water is fine. Sometimes we don't have access to baking soda and it is nice to know that regular water is good enough. Also cheese helps bring the pH up in the mouth. I like to eat a bit of cheese with a dessert or with fruit. It's protective and pairs well, and frankly is more enjoyable than swishing with water, especially if you are consuming the dessert or fruit slowly.

I'm not 100% sure how the cheese is working (increased saliva, coating the teeth with minerals, etc.), especially since some cheeses are approaching 5.5 pH. Cheddar even increases the pH, even though it is a cheese below 5.5 pH. Camembert has a pH of 7.0 to 7.4. But I think most cheese would work, even the lower pH ones (though I would aim for one that is higher than 5.5 pH, just to be safe). I think it works through multiple mechanisms, including saliva flow, coating the teeth, the casein phosphopeptides and the calcium.

The Effect of Cheese on the pH Levels in the Oral Cavity
"It was found that the average pH level thirty seconds after drinking Coke®was between six and seven. The subjects then consumed one ounce of mild cheese. The average pH thirty seconds after eating the cheese was between nine and ten."

"To follow up on this hypothesis, the researcher conducted another study to determine if a longer exposure would still be beneficial. This time it was found that the average pH two minutes after consumption of the Coke® was, on average, five. As before, the subjects then consumed one ounce of mild cheddar cheese. The average pH five minutes after eating the cheese was between ten and eleven."


Cheese May Prevent Dental Caries, New Study Suggests | Medicine | Sci-News.com


And of course I have mentioned the paneer cheese study before, but I will link it again. The part I found most interesting in this study was the fact that 30% of the children eating the chocolate had no drop in pH, which means that they likely had protective saliva naturally. Another point is that the cheese increased the pH of the mouth for over an hour.

Effect of Chewing Paneer and Cheese on Salivary Acidogenicity: A Comparative Study
"In the present study, a shallow drop in pH (acidic) was seen in 70% of subjects and is consistent with Stephan’s observations that sugar containing foods cause a rapid drop in plaque (oral) pH. This shallow pH response to chocolate maybe attributed to the difference in the method of assessing oral pH since, most studies assessed plaque pH. However, in 30% of children no change in pH was detected. The probable reason for this lack in change in salivary pH maybe because their resting salivary pH was higher than 7.0 thus, had better buffering capacity and was similar to Birkhed’s findings."

"The rise in salivary pH due to cheese after chocolate challenge was similar to the results of Athena Papas; Rugg- Gunn et al demonstrated a pH reversal when cheese was eaten after an exposure to sugar."

"In this study paneer like processed cheese reversed the drop in salivary pH levels after a chocolate challenge and the salivary pH levels were elevated for 60 minutes indicating that the protective effect of paneer lasted for over an hour."

 

[BearWithMe]

Need to keep saliva flowing. Sugars affect neurotransmitters in a way that shut off saliva flow. Need to then raise acetylcholine/histamine, an effect had by sufficient thyroid hormone levels. Mouth rinsing is then a superficial action.

If liquids have a pH over 6.5 (if there's exposed dentin) or 5.5 (if there isn't), they won't be corrosive. Sugars directly on teeth aren't problematic if the mouth is sterile. Derangement blocking salivary flow isn't an issue if hormone/neurotransmitters are increased to restore salivary flow.

I drank orange juice alone = dry mouth. I drank orange juice fortified with calcium (calcium increases acetylcholine, supposedly) = saliva flowing after 10s of minutes.

This is really interesting! Beside the calcium, are there some other ways of raising acetylcholine/histamine to increase saliva flow?

 

[baccheion]

This is really interesting! Beside the calcium, are there some other ways of raising acetylcholine/histamine to increase saliva flow?

Alpha-GPC and other cholinergics. Riboflavin (at the expense of dopamine and serotonin), vitamin B3, vitamin B5, sulfur/MSM, silicon/monomethylsilanetriol, vitamin C somewhat, vitamin E..

 

[BearWithMe]

Alpha-GPC and other cholinergics. Riboflavin (at the expense of dopamine and serotonin), vitamin B3, vitamin B5, sulfur/MSM, silicon/monomethylsilanetriol, vitamin C somewhat, vitamin E..

Awesome, thank you very much!

 

[johnsmith]

Would adding baking soda to my orange juice prevent a large degree of tooth decay from the acidity of the juice?

 

[YourUniverse]

Would adding baking soda to my orange juice prevent a large degree of tooth decay from the acidity of the juice?

I think it helps