Tooth Decay And Calcium

[teds]

Hello- a friend’s daughter is about 8yo. Generally healthy. Lots of time out doors, pretty much follow a GAPS type diet so not HEAPS of carbs and probably favoriting the fat but the family definitely doesn’t restrict carbs etc.
In the last year she has had quite a few cavities. They’re on tank water and they’ve decided to start giving her fluoride tablets and have switched to using a fluoride toothpaste.. this family drinks raw milk.. they go though about 10L per week between 2 adults and 2 kids.. they also consume lots of butter and liver (hidden in meats for the kids)...

Any thoughts? I’ve been trying to work out if it’s an imbalance that might be obvious.. she certainly gets a lot of calcium..

They’re also going to reduce her milk intake “because calcium can strip the calcium from the teeth”... I can’t see how it does that exactly but that’s what they’re thinking..
could someone point me in right direction? TIA

 

[Redshine]

Maybe she sleeps with her mouth open? I had that most of the nights on w. Price, I think I drank way too much raw milk and my sinus react on that. So during the night my mouth was open because I couldnt breathe well trough my nose. That cave me a awful feeling on my theeth think it had to do with the enamal layer (dont know if I have the right words, this what came up on the translater haha)

 

[teds]

Maybe she sleeps with her mouth open? I had that most of the nights on w. Price, I think I drank way too much raw milk and my sinus react on that. So during the night my mouth was open because I couldnt breathe well trough my nose. That cave me a awful feeling on my theeth think it had to do with the enamal layer (dont know if I have the right words, this what came up on the translater haha)

Thanks! That’s interesting.. and that would change the pH too I imagine.. will ask about mouth breathing.

 

[NathanK]

possibly mouth breathing and/or bruxism

 

[SOMO]

Taking Fluoride internally won’t help her teeth, and may even destroy them.

Fluoride toothpaste does help with strengthening tooth enamel though, but it has to be Fluoride ION, not Stannous Fluoride.

Fortunately almost all toothpastes are Fluoride Ion.

But one has to stress that at no point should someone purposefully ingest Fluoride.

And no, drinking milk won’t “strip calcium” from the teeth. That’s stupid and ridiculous.

Milk helps remineralize teeth.

 

[teds]

Taking Fluoride internally won’t help her teeth, and may even destroy them.

Fluoride toothpaste does help with strengthening tooth enamel though, but it has to be Fluoride ION, not Stannous Fluoride.

Fortunately almost all toothpastes are Fluoride Ion.

But one has to stress that at no point should someone purposefully ingest Fluoride.

And no, drinking milk won’t “strip calcium” from the teeth. That’s stupid and ridiculous.

Milk helps remineralize teeth.

Thanks for responding.. though I’m not sure if you read my original comment. She drinks A LOT of milk.. I agree that the idea of it striping the teeth is crazy but they are looking at one set of circumstances leading to another. Ie-Ingesting milk and getting tooth decay..

 

[SOMO]

Thanks for responding.. though I’m not sure if you read my original comment. She drinks A LOT of milk.. I agree that the idea of it striping the teeth is crazy but they are looking at one set of circumstances leading to another. Ie-Ingesting milk and getting tooth decay..

I did read your post, I’m providing you information you should relay to the girl’s parents because if they deny her milk, they will **** her teeth up more.


Milk has calcium and phosphorus and is alkaline. To strengthen teeth you need calcium (or Fluoride, they’re interchangeable) in combination with small amounts of phosphorus and alkaline saliva.

You should explain this to the parents and have them learn a bit about how teeth naturally remineralize, because if they understand that process, they would understand milk is one of the few foods that is good for teeth.

Take it from someone who has a cavity filled too deeply - my tooth sensitivity did not go away with taking high doses of K2, using “natural charcoal toothpaste” and consuming more fruit.

I had to start using Fluoride toothpaste again which helped a lot, but I didn’t swallow it. I also had to start consuming more dairy (I never really drank milk except in my youth.) Calcium helps, milk helps, and rinsing my mouth after consuming fruit helps.

What other foods is she consuming? Fruit? Grains? Nuts?

Fruit is super healthy but it can cause cavities. Ideally one would consume fruit in a large meal versus snacking on it all day to let the teeth rest. In addition, after consuming fruit (or carbs in general) their daughter should rinse and/or brush her teeth.

I carry a toothbrush with me to work in case I want a snack (fruit or chocolate). I eat the snack and then brush my teeth immediately afterwards, because fixing teeth is expensive and it’s easier/less expensive to take care of them.

Simple lifestyle changes can reverse cavities.

 

[baccheion]

Minimum magnesium to support calcium is 1:2 ratio. 1:1 is even better. Vitamin D is probably also insufficient. Good salivary flow (excess calcium leads to dry mouth) needs to be maintained in order for cleaning and remineralization to occur.

Acetylcholine and histamine are associated with increased salivation. Low potassium (caused by insufficient magnesium or indirectly by higher calcium), vitamin A, riboflavin, or vitamin B12 = dry mouth.

As there are cavities/decay, add vitamin K2 MK-4 and ensure sufficient vitamin A. More important is to take MK-4 3x/day until healed. Also, cut any refined sugars and grains.

@SOMO, it's better to wait 45 minutes or so after eating to brush.

 

[BearWithMe]

Minimum magnesium to support calcium is 1:2 ratio. 1:1 is even better. Vitamin D is probably also insufficient. Good salivary flow (excess calcium leads to dry mouth) needs to be maintained in order for cleaning and remineralization to occur. Acetylcholine and histamine are associated with increased salivation. TRH (thyrotropin-releasing hormone) increases acetylcholine.

As there are cavities/decay, add vitamin K2 MK-4 and ensure sufficient vitamin A. More important is to take MK-4 3x/day until healed. Also, cut any refined sugars and grains.

@SOMO, it's better to wait 45 minutes or so after eating to brush.

Awesome post, agree 100%, except for the vitamin A part. Any form of vitamin A makes my dental health much worse for some reason, and I think I'm getting enough of D, K and E. But obviously this is just n=1 anecdote.

 

[baccheion]

Awesome post, agree 100%, except for the vitamin A part. Any form of vitamin A makes my dental health much worse for some reason, and I think I'm getting enough of D, K and E. But obviously this is just n=1 anecdote.

While vitamin A is a part of remineralization, I'm mainly referring to ensuring at least the RDA is consumed (from all sources). What other supplements were you taking? Vitamin A increases osteoclast activity and opposes osteoblasts, leading to net bone loss. On the other hand, it's just a part of remodeling when balanced with vitamin D3 and K(2 MK-4).

 

[BearWithMe]

While vitamin A is a part of remineralization, I'm mainly referring to ensuring at least the RDA is consumed (from all sources). What other supplements were you taking? Vitamin A increases osteoclast activity and opposes osteoblasts, leading to net bone loss. On the other hand, it's just a part of remodeling when balanced with vitamin D3 and K(2 MK-4).

I'm using these supplements daily, long term:
5000IU of D3
2500mcg of K2-MK4
100 IU of vitamin E
240mg of magnesium (+plenty from diet)
15mg of zinc
3mg of boron
8mg of orthosilicic acid
400mg of calcium from hydroxyapatite
1000mg of vitamin C

I have used 25000 IU retinyl palmitate pills. I have splitted them in half and used one half once a week (i.e. 12500 IU weekly / 1800 IU daily), still had issues No other significant sources of A in my diet.

What you have said makes a lot of sense, this makes me wonder if I'm absorbing the other supplements properly...

EDIT: By the way, I have just readed your posts in Ramiel Nagel thread, lots of super-useful informations there, thank you!

 

[baccheion]

I'm using these supplements daily, long term:
5000IU of D3
2500mcg of K2-MK4
100 IU of vitamin E
240mg of magnesium (+plenty from diet)
15mg of zinc
3mg of boron
8mg of orthosilicic acid
400mg of calcium from hydroxyapatite
1000mg of vitamin C

I have used 25000 IU retinyl palmitate pills. I have splitted them in half and used one half once a week (i.e. 12500 IU weekly / 1800 IU daily), still had issues No other significant sources of A in my diet.

What you have said makes a lot of sense, this makes me wonder if I'm absorbing the other supplements properly...

EDIT: By the way, I have just readed your posts in Ramiel Nagel thread, lots of super-useful informations there, thank you!

What issues did it cause?

 

[BearWithMe]

What issues did it cause?

I have had multiple cavities in my life, and every time, the very first sign was horrible taste in my mouth (long before any sign of pain). Every time I take retinol supplement, I have this exact taste in my mouth the next day.

 

[baccheion]

I have had multiple cavities in my life, and every time, the very first sign was horrible taste in my mouth (long before any sign of pain). Every time I take retinol supplement, I have this exact taste in my mouth the next day.

Did those cavities heal/reverse?

 

[BearWithMe]

Did those cavities heal/reverse?

I'm not sure to be honest, I haven't seen my dentist since then. But it has been over two months and I have no issues so far - when I don't take retinol.

The cavities were drilled out, but I have denied the filling.

 

[danishispsychic]

Boron, Vit D and especially K, and food grade DE have made my teeth super strong after a long flimsy tooth battle from low D and hypo. My temps are 98.6 and up now but back then they were 96-97 all the time. I have issues with calcium absorption so K is key and also I have a deviated septum so I mouth breath at night. Red light has really helped that as it make me have less " dry mouth " too. Also weirdly enough , adding enough sugar i my to help me sleep at night seemed to help the whole dental thing but helping my thyroid - I was raised on a no sugar - artificial sweetener diet - urgh..... Oil pulling with Coconut oil with added DE and or eggshell calcium works well too. Peace. x

 

[teds]

Minimum magnesium to support calcium is 1:2 ratio. 1:1 is even better. Vitamin D is probably also insufficient. Good salivary flow (excess calcium leads to dry mouth) needs to be maintained in order for cleaning and remineralization to occur.

Acetylcholine and histamine are associated with increased salivation. Low potassium (caused by insufficient magnesium or indirectly by higher calcium), vitamin A, riboflavin, or vitamin B12 = dry mouth.

As there are cavities/decay, add vitamin K2 MK-4 and ensure sufficient vitamin A. More important is to take MK-4 3x/day until healed. Also, cut any refined sugars and grains.

@SOMO, it's better to wait 45 minutes or so after eating to brush.

Cool thank you! I hadn’t clicked on the Ca:Mg.. she gets a lot of dairy as well as some organ meats so I’m guessing her K2 and vit A should be okay? Also lives in QLD which is known as the “sunshine state” here so maybe not enough Vit D but it’s probably not her biggest fish to fry. She hasn’t had much exposure to fluoride in her life so I’m quite concerned about this intervention.. I’ll definitely be chatting to them about mouth breathing, saliva and magnesium!

Can I just clarify though- you say excess Ca leads to a dry mouth.. is that excess relative to Mg or just excess Ca no matter how it’s balanced. I wonder why this is?

Many thanks!

 

[teds]

Boron, Vit D and especially K, and food grade DE have made my teeth super strong after a long flimsy tooth battle from low D and hypo. My temps are 98.6 and up now but back then they were 96-97 all the time. I have issues with calcium absorption so K is key and also I have a deviated septum so I mouth breath at night. Red light has really helped that as it make me have less " dry mouth " too. Also weirdly enough , adding enough sugar i my to help me sleep at night seemed to help the whole dental thing but helping my thyroid - I was raised on a no sugar - artificial sweetener diet - urgh..... Oil pulling with Coconut oil with added DE and or eggshell calcium works well too. Peace. x

I’ve been meaning to check boron out myself- I’m 40 and have never had a cavity so I’m not a good candidate for the experiment for teeth I guess.. what dose to do take? Was it just your teeth that you found really benefited? Thank you for responding!

 

[baccheion]

Cool thank you! I hadn’t clicked on the Ca:Mg.. she gets a lot of dairy as well as some organ meats so I’m guessing her K2 and vit A should be okay? Also lives in QLD which is known as the “sunshine state” here so maybe not enough Vit D but it’s probably not her biggest fish to fry. She hasn’t had much exposure to fluoride in her life so I’m quite concerned about this intervention.. I’ll definitely be chatting to them about mouth breathing, saliva and magnesium!

Can I just clarify though- you say excess Ca leads to a dry mouth.. is that excess relative to Mg or just excess Ca no matter how it’s balanced. I wonder why this is?

Many thanks!

Excess magnesium also leads to dry mouth, as do excess B vitamins and vitamin C. Just generally avoid excess. She could get lab work done to check status of 25(OH)D, calcium, and RBC magnesium.

With less fluoride, it becomes more important to get sufficient magnesium and calcium. And iodine. Fluoride is said to be doing a job (in this regard) originally meant for iodine. At higher intake, iodine appears in saliva.

 

[danishispsychic]

I’ve been meaning to check boron out myself- I’m 40 and have never had a cavity so I’m not a good candidate for the experiment for teeth I guess.. what dose to do take? Was it just your teeth that you found really benefited? Thank you for responding!

I use this- I empty out one each day and put it in my Arnold Palmers or lemon water. They really up the enamel and help the gums . They help with my joints and seem to help with belly fat - sometimes I take 2. https://www.vitacost.com/natures-way-boron-complex