"Too Much Verbalisation Can Damage The Brain"

Green Dot

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About Ray Peat:
“That he sometimes completely stops reading and talking for several days because he believes too much verbalisation damages the brain. During those days he paints and does sculpture instead to stimulate the areas of the brain that are responsible for creativity and three dimensional thinking.”

By Ray Peat (from an e-mail):
"While I was (...) a psychology major, I did some surveys (1957) relating to creativity and types of thought and dreaming, following up some ideas I found in Brewster Ghiselin's book The Creative Process. I felt that the current US view of the brain as a computing device with nerves serving as wires and switches was completely inappropriate, even for understanding things such as the perception of odors and musical pitch, and around that time a practical study of creativity was published, in a book called Synectics, and I saw that Pavlov's colleague P.K. Anokhin had been developing a much better understanding of brain function. The fact that sensations and perception of space in dreams can be so convincing led me to feel that biological/metabolic processes in the brain reproduce in fairly direct or literal ways things in the external world, i.e., that our experience of internal colors and smells and sounds are probably a sort of electrochemical resonance within nerves---with a nerve and its surroundings, spatial parts of the brain, taking on energetic states with the frequencies that are closely analogous to the frequencies produced by the external objects, colors, chemical odors, sound vibrations, as well as other kinds of patterned relationships. If "photons" or electromagnetic interactions within the organism are the substance of consciousness, then the electronic properties of nutrients, hormones, and drugs are important, rather than their geometric form, as interpreted by the "lock-and-key" "receptor and ligand" doctrine. I think the active chemical in St. John's wort is hypericin, an anthroquine (very similar to emodin, in cascara, and to vitamin K and tetracycline), which is a large system of conjugated electrons, that interacts powerfully with our cellular regulatory systems.
(...)
I suspect that growing up with creativity involves opportunities that cause the brain to develop various sensitivities and resonances, and that the brain functioning in these ways calls up the energetic and hormonal resources that it needs, and ideally that includes an array of chemicals that enrich and intensify consciousness, allowing very complex internal experiences to be generated."
 

Explorer

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I notice when I have been reading, talking, writing too much and thinking verbally it gets harder to understand and work through more spatial visual related concepts like a brain fog combined with short term memory issues especially when overusing internet and taking a break from it makes it again easier to visualize/imagine/think more visually about things
 
B

Braveheart

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About Ray Peat:
“That he sometimes completely stops reading and talking for several days because he believes too much verbalisation damages the brain. During those days he paints and does sculpture instead to stimulate the areas of the brain that are responsible for creativity and three dimensional thinking.”

By Ray Peat (from an e-mail):
"While I was (...) a psychology major, I did some surveys (1957) relating to creativity and types of thought and dreaming, following up some ideas I found in Brewster Ghiselin's book The Creative Process. I felt that the current US view of the brain as a computing device with nerves serving as wires and switches was completely inappropriate, even for understanding things such as the perception of odors and musical pitch, and around that time a practical study of creativity was published, in a book called Synectics, and I saw that Pavlov's colleague P.K. Anokhin had been developing a much better understanding of brain function. The fact that sensations and perception of space in dreams can be so convincing led me to feel that biological/metabolic processes in the brain reproduce in fairly direct or literal ways things in the external world, i.e., that our experience of internal colors and smells and sounds are probably a sort of electrochemical resonance within nerves---with a nerve and its surroundings, spatial parts of the brain, taking on energetic states with the frequencies that are closely analogous to the frequencies produced by the external objects, colors, chemical odors, sound vibrations, as well as other kinds of patterned relationships. If "photons" or electromagnetic interactions within the organism are the substance of consciousness, then the electronic properties of nutrients, hormones, and drugs are important, rather than their geometric form, as interpreted by the "lock-and-key" "receptor and ligand" doctrine. I think the active chemical in St. John's wort is hypericin, an anthroquine (very similar to emodin, in cascara, and to vitamin K and tetracycline), which is a large system of conjugated electrons, that interacts powerfully with our cellular regulatory systems.
(...)
I suspect that growing up with creativity involves opportunities that cause the brain to develop various sensitivities and resonances, and that the brain functioning in these ways calls up the energetic and hormonal resources that it needs, and ideally that includes an array of chemicals that enrich and intensify consciousness, allowing very complex internal experiences to be generated."
Interesting, thank you...
 

JamesGatz

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This explains a lot - I have a funny memory of a girl telling me back in high school about a guy she was into and she said something along the lines about "he's so quiet ... so mysterious" - I hear girls say this a lot about these types of guys they may be into - maybe the tendency to not speak preserves a lot of brain power or something of this nature
 
P

Peatness

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This explains a lot - I have a funny memory of a girl telling me back in high school about a guy she was into and she said something along the lines about "he's so quiet ... so mysterious" - I hear girls say this a lot about these types of guys they may be into - maybe the tendency to not speak preserves a lot of brain power or something of this nature
No it doesn't. Those guys are probably not speaking because they don't know what to say and fear making a mistake. The mystery is usually short lived. A certain level of articulacy or fluency is attractive.
 

JamesGatz

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No it doesn't. Those guys are probably not speaking because they don't know what to say and fear making a mistake. The mystery is usually short lived. A certain level of articulacy or fluency is attractive.
Very good to know - I will start leaving my house dressed as Rey Mysterio or maybe I will dress as the Riddler from Batman
 

Michael Mohn

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I started working as a translator on a big construction site with different nationalities the last month. All I do is talking, at the end of the day I'm dead and the construction workers who do physical work for ten hours are fit and happy. Another observation aside is that they're are extremely strong. One guy closed a valve via a screw and he closed it so hard with his bare hand I needed a bar as a lever to open it. Doing meaningful work is much more effective for fitness, strength and health than going to the gym.
 

Apple

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This explains a lot - I have a funny memory of a girl telling me back in high school about a guy she was into and she said something along the lines about "he's so quiet ... so mysterious" - I hear girls say this a lot about these types of guys they may be into - maybe the tendency to not speak preserves a lot of brain power or something of this nature
it doesn't mean that guy was quiet inside his head, for sure he was still talking, unless he was into some spiritual practices.
Turning off verbalisation means not translating your thougts into words, you can experess yourself in music or painting or physical activity or just contemplating...it is more pure kind of thinking
 

LUH 3417

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No it doesn't. Those guys are probably not speaking because they don't know what to say and fear making a mistake. The mystery is usually short lived. A certain level of articulacy or fluency is attractive.
I think it’s complicated. I had a bf who was a musician and was quiet, but would say things with his body language, eyes, breathing. In some ways it’s more seductive than a guy just talking to fill space or because he feels nervous. I have been around guys like that, who just talk and it feels neurotic, like it’s not even stuff they want to say from their body but random thought forms to fill the air.
 

Beastmode

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I asked him about the benefits of sensory deprivation tanks:

Peat:
"People who are very involved with inward words are the ones who, after some time in the dark tank suddenly notice that there is something in their awareness besides words."

Me:
The "self" reflection that occurs in such an environment can help one escape words long enough to see/experience something new? Similar to something like doing art or dancing?

"Peat:"
Not often, but sometimes.

Language/words are very hard to escape from the more we're aware of how "tied in" they are to every construct of our days. We try not to not "label" things too much with our toddler so she doesn't lose her subtle senses and deeper exploration of life. I think we can all go back to the "process" of exploring more and more without having an identified "outcome" like children the more we're aware of it.

This is a topic that I wish more people asked Peat about as he's a treasure trove of insight around this. Maybe even more than he is around "nutrition."
 

Sam321

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This explains a lot - I have a funny memory of a girl telling me back in high school about a guy she was into and she said something along the lines about "he's so quiet ... so mysterious" - I hear girls say this a lot about these types of guys they may be into - maybe the tendency to not speak preserves a lot of brain power or something of this nature
Id probably go with these girls had issues around being into emotionally unavailable men instead.
 

InChristAlone

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Talkative guys or guys that talk more than their partner are feminized men. The masculine knows how to be stoic.
 

JamesGatz

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Talkative guys or guys that talk more than their partner are feminized men. The masculine knows how to be stoic.
Take notes GENTS - women want you to do all the work in approaching them, talking to them and asking them out but at the same time need you to sit down and shut-up and be a super serious, quiet, STOIC CHAD - hahaha just joking
 
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Nomane Euger

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No it doesn't. Those guys are probably not speaking because they don't know what to say and fear making a mistake. The mystery is usually short lived. A certain level of articulacy or fluency is attractive.
it can be that the person dont know what to say despit she would like to,as you suggested,it can also be that you reach a state of fulness where you feel good, you appreciate the moment,and you dont feel the need to break these silences,when i feel good enough i can spend a good moment with a women with out talking much,and the womenthat i was with too had a good moment
 

Nomane Euger

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Talkative guys or guys that talk more than their partner are feminized men. The masculine knows how to be stoic.
didnt see your comment,yes indeed.i think also childish mens,in a good sense,can be talkative and passionate.
 

Summer

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I asked him about the benefits of sensory deprivation tanks:

Peat:
"People who are very involved with inward words are the ones who, after some time in the dark tank suddenly notice that there is something in their awareness besides words."

Me:
The "self" reflection that occurs in such an environment can help one escape words long enough to see/experience something new? Similar to something like doing art or dancing?

"Peat:"
Not often, but sometimes.

Language/words are very hard to escape from the more we're aware of how "tied in" they are to every construct of our days. We try not to not "label" things too much with our toddler so she doesn't lose her subtle senses and deeper exploration of life. I think we can all go back to the "process" of exploring more and more without having an identified "outcome" like children the more we're aware of it.

This is a topic that I wish more people asked Peat about as he's a treasure trove of insight around this. Maybe even more than he is around "nutrition."
Ray makes some great points here. On a side note it sounds like Ray and his lady adopted a child.
 

InChristAlone

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Take notes GENTS - women want you to do all the work in approaching them, talking to them and asking them out but at the same time need you to sit down and shut-up and be a super serious, quiet, STOIC CHAD - hahaha just joking
Do you disagree a man who talks more than their girlfriend is feminized?
 

CiggyTardust

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Talkative guys or guys that talk more than their partner are feminized men. The masculine knows how to be stoic.
As someone of Irish descent with a propensity to process information verbally, I talk a lot to my wife to figure out my thoughts... I find it exhilarating to process information this way. I do know it can probably be annoying to the listener. Having tested out at the top 1% of the population in the verbal portion of the SATs (perfect score of 800), it's just part of who I am. All that is to say, I take GREAT OFFENSE to the suggestion that I am a feminized man!

Just kidding... but I do take your point. I'm learning in my thirties to know when to shut up... not everything needs to be expressed.
 
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