Too Much Red Light?

[cyclops]

Is there such a thing as too much red light? If so, what would be the potential detriment?

I have one of those Red Light's from red light man and it is easy to shine it on myself for very long periods of time. Would this be bad to do though?

 

[Makrosky]

Is there such a thing as too much red light? If so, what would be the potential detriment?

I have one of those Red Light's from red light man and it is easy to shine it on myself for very long periods of time. Would this be bad to do though?

Read the last threads on redlight. It's explained there. Biphasic response it's called.

 

[x-ray peat]

yes, it increases ROS (Reactive Oxygen Species) beyond the healthful amounts. Basically does the opposite of antioxidants i.e. not good for you

 

[Wagner83]

On an other thread 3-5 J/cm2 was mentioned, this is only 20 seconds with the red light mini, I'll try that. I've seen redlight man say to provide deeper tissue with this amount of exposure much more time would be needed though.

 

[TheDrumGuy]

More is not better, there is one user on here who fixed his hypothyroidism with just like 15 min every other day or something. He says to think of it like working out, it's very easy to do too much with LED's. Harder to OD with incandescent bulbs though.

 

[Constatine]

You want to keep the dose around 1 J/cm^2. Which is very low. It's better to just get sunlight imo.

 

[cyclops]

You want to keep the dose around 1 J/cm^2. Which is very low. It's better to just get sunlight imo.

Now that you mention it, it does feel a bit weird/unnatural pointing this light at myself lol. Many people around here swear that the red light is there #1 most important tool though; more important then any supplement, so I wanted to use it.

 

[Makrosky]

More is not better, there is one user on here who fixed his hypothyroidism with just like 15 min every other day or something. He says to think of it like working out, it's very easy to do too much with LED's. Harder to OD with incandescent bulbs though.

15 mins means nothing. Again. It's about the J/cm2. I believe you are refering to user @tyler. And he did lots of other pro-thyroid things including taking NDT.

 

[Makrosky]

You want to keep the dose around 1 J/cm^2. Which is very low. It's better to just get sunlight imo.

It's not the same, sadly. I think sun is better because it's systemic but LEDs on my thyroid pump my temps to 37.1-.2 which I NEVER ever had in my whole life I think.

 

[Constatine]

Now that you mention it, it does feel a bit weird/unnatural pointing this light at myself lol. Many people around here swear that the red light is there #1 most important tool though; more important then any supplement, so I wanted to use it.

Yeah it's quite unnatural. Sunlight has other wavelengths that balance the effects of red light and infrared. Without the other wavelengths red light is too stimulating, especially on tissues near the skin. Ray Peat has also theorized that specific wavelengths are responsible for the production of specific hormones in the skin. If this is true then red light would also lead to overproduction of specific hormones.

 

[Constatine]

It's not the same, sadly. I think sun is better because it's systemic but LEDs on my thyroid pump my temps to 37.1-.2 which I NEVER ever had in my whole life I think.

Have you tried sitting in the sun every morning and sundown?

 

[cyclops]

Yeah it's quite unnatural. Sunlight has other wavelengths that balance the effects of red light and infrared. Without the other wavelengths red light is too stimulating, especially on tissues near the skin. Ray Peat has also theorized that specific wavelengths are responsible for the production of specific hormones in the skin. If this is true then red light would also lead to overproduction of specific hormones.

Makes sense and why I am weary of vitamin d supplementation too. I know you can't put the sun in a bottle or an artificial light. There is probably so many benefits to the sun we don't even understand yet.

But sometimes these things can help,I just hope I'm not doing more harm then good.

 

[Constatine]

Makes sense and why I am weary of vitamin d supplementation too. I know you can't put the sun in a bottle or a light. There is probably so many benefits to the sun we don't even understand yet.

Yeah there are a lot of interesting ideas regarding sunlight. Some people think that the sun pulses and such pulses are important regarding the benefits of sunlight. I have always noticed that people are much better looking after a beach vacation and that this is not due to tanning. It really does have a huge impact on our physiology.

 

[Makrosky]

Have you tried sitting in the sun every morning and sundown?

I mentioned it in another post. There has been summers where for a month or more I would take more than 4 hours of sunlight full body exposure. Maybe if I would have measured my temps at that point they would have been 37.1. Definitely one of the healthies things you can do... If you have time. If you work 9-5 you cannot do that. Summer a bit easier but in winter? Nah. Just not possible for most of the people. Neither in summer.

 

[Makrosky]

Makes sense and why I am weary of vitamin d supplementation too. I know you can't put the sun in a bottle or an artificial light. There is probably so many benefits to the sun we don't even understand yet.

But sometimes these things can help,I just hope I'm not doing more harm then good.

Biphasic phenomenon is considered not harmful in the literature. Normally what happens is that you cancel the benefits. But not damage. Keep in mind biphasic response is not the same as applying such a big dose that fries your tissue. Just to clarify.

 

[cyclops]

Someone here had said the sun makes you look older though. Wonder why that is, if it is so good for you.

 

[Constatine]

I mentioned it in another post. There has been summers where for a month or more I would take more than 4 hours of sunlight full body exposure. Maybe if I would have measured my temps at that point they would have been 37.1. Definitely one of the healthies things you can do... If you have time. If you work 9-5 you cannot do that. Summer a bit easier but in winter? Nah. Just not possible for most of the people.

Yeah modern day life makes it difficult. When I can I program outside. I find it helps me think better as well. But most jobs make it quite difficult to get sun exposure.

 

[Constatine]

Someone here had said the sun makes you look older though. Wonder why that is, if it is so good for you.

A diet high in polyunsaturated fats would make the skin susceptible to damage under UV light. A good diet will render you immune to such effects.

 

[TheDrumGuy]

15 mins means nothing. Again. It's about the J/cm2. I believe you are refering to user @tyler. And he did lots of other pro-thyroid things including taking NDT.

My point is not that 15 minutes is the 'correct' dose for every red light device, but that for many devices the optimal dose (in J/cm^2) only requires a few minutes to deliver. This is in contrast to incandescent bulbs or the sun, where it takes hours to achieve comparable doses.

And it's probably not just about J/cm^2 either. I suspect the reason there is a U shaped dose-response curve for many LED devices is because in these studies they are delivering massive doses in a short period of time. Keep in mind with LED's you can deliver much higher doses of narrow wavelength ranges than you would ever get sitting under the sun. There is probably a limit to how much red light a given tissue can make use of in a given amount of time. At a certain point you're just giving the body light at a faster rate than it can handle, so it downregulates its response as a protective mechanism. It's like trying to shove 3000 calories down your throat in one sitting vs eating is at regular intervals throughout the day. To my knowledge Peat does not use LED's, and when using incandescents he has not suggested any upper limit on exposure.

 

[Constatine]

My point is not that 15 minutes is the 'correct' dose for every red light device, but that for many devices the optimal dose (in J/cm^2) only requires a few minutes to deliver. This is in contrast to incandescent bulbs or the sun, where it takes hours to achieve comparable doses.

And it's probably not just about J/cm^2 either. I suspect the reason there is a U shaped dose-response curve for many LED devices is because in these studies they are delivering massive doses in a short period of time. Keep in mind with LED's you can deliver much higher doses of narrow wavelength ranges than you would ever get sitting under the sun. There is probably a limit to how much red light a given tissue can make use of in a given amount of time. At a certain point you're just giving the body light at a faster rate than it can handle, so it downregulates its response as a protective mechanism. It's like trying to shove 3000 calories down your throat in one sitting vs eating is at regular intervals throughout the day. To my knowledge Peat does not use LED's, and when using incandescents he has not suggested any upper limit on exposure.

Yeah your right. Power density is just as important as total dose.