Too Much Protein? Cold Hands, Low Temperature And Corspe-like Heart Rate

_lppaiva

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For some context.

I am 18 years olds, 132lbs, 5'7".
I was introduced to Ray Peat through Danny Roddy and my hair loss. I was surprised at how low my temperature and blood pressure, and even after some months of Peating still is. It's usually around 55-65BPM/96°-97,5°F, and sometimes I can raise my BPM to 85 tops.

I've always had chronically cold hands, feet and low blood pressure, so much so my nickname in high school is "Corpse" (Defunto). But I only found it might be a "symptom" of something after Ray Peat.

My theory is that I am eating too much protein. I feel this because Whenever I try to aim for a 1:2, 1:3 ratio in a meal, my hands instantly get cold. Since I am young and haven't followed any extreme diets, I am both hypersensitive to some things and resistant to others. For example, I have a hard time accessing if something is bad, as I have "good health", meaning I don't get meaningful bad reactions to PUFA, Starch, etc, but I am sensitive/aware enough to feel changes in blood temperature, energy, mood, etc. It's just never an extreme reaction.

Today I accidentally messed up the metrics and ended up putting a lot of sugar in my coffee, 2 oz for 7oz of coffee. That's double what I usually do. I instantly felt warmer. Ie thought it might be the coffee's temperature, but I also had a papaya, milk and OJ smoothe (Recommend it, delicious) later that day, with a 1:10 ratio protein to carbs (50g of sugars to 5g of the milk protein, but I also added 10g of collagen powder, so perhaps 1:4 would be a better estimate) and felt the warmth as with coffee.

On the otherhand, I had some potatoes with lean Steak for lunch, and having a 1:2 ratio, my hands and feet got extremely cold.

Might my theory of protein:carb ratio be correct? What else may cause these cold hands and feet. I honestly can't explain just how cold they get, but shaking hands with me is like putting your hand in cold water.

My diet today, an "ideal" day: around 50g of starch from potatoes or white sweet potatoes (we don't have the red ones where I live), 200g+ of sugar, 100g added. 55-65g of fats, being 4-5g from PUFA and 25 from SFA, 120g of protein.
Morning, some oranges with eggs. For snack at school 14-16oz of sugared whole milk. Potatoes with butter and Steak for Lunch or preferable dinner, as they are slow releasing carbs. Evening, Either papaya, OJ and Milk Smoothie or Seedless Guavas and Eggs/local cheese with a 5:1 of calcium to phosphate, awesome. At around 6:30pm I drink coffee with my carrot salad (I know I know I eat it too late, but it's what I can do). I have increasingly reduced my rice intake in favour of potatoes. If my lunch was potatoes, at dinner I'll eat some fruit and more meat. And if I am still hungry I drink some more milk with sugar and salt. I throw in 10+15g of not tested for heavy metals collagen throughout the day, and some bone broth when available. The only vegetable I consistently eat is Kale, for K1. I supplement Magnesium bisglycinate for a 700mg RDA, and take aspirin if having a higher PUFA meal (Chicken Hearts for Zinc)
 

lampofred

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Protein will strongly drop blood sugar if not eaten with enough carbs, which will turn off thyroid & raise adrenaline (causing cold hands).

Some people need a 10:1 ratio of carbs to protein, whereas others get by on a 1:1 ratio, so I think the ideal ratio varies a lot based on health status (lactic acid to CO2 ratio probably).
 

Cirion

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Carb:protein ratio is extremely important parameter, one of the most important imo, to get right. Studies suggest this number is probably at least 4:1 for optimality, and some people may need way more (I need upwards of at least 8:1 based upon experimentation, possibly 10:1).
 

Kartoffel

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My experience is the same. Too much protein makes me cold and irritated. I feel best when I eat no significant amounts of protein until dinner in the evening. I have also seen several friends that started developing similar problems when they started eating lots of protein for muscle building, etc. Babies get a cho/fat : protein ratio of 14:1. For an adult it is probably lower, but around 10:1 works well for me.
 

_lppaiva

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Thank you guys. Appearently this is the most variable piece and also the one of the most important. Does anyone have any studies on this? Does protein actually help avoid the blood sugar spikes of eating only carbs?

Also, What other markers can I look for to find my "optimal ratio", besides temp/heart rate? Feeling letargic, or feeling to active, any other measures, etc?
 

_lppaiva

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Babies get a cho/fat : protein ratio of 14:1. For an adult it is probably lower, but around 10:1 works well for me

Really? Peat already recommends a lower fat intake, so I think 10:1 would be really low in protein no? Like, I average around 55g of fat, so that would be 5,5g of protein lol. Also, being that protein seems to be an important marker for health and weight, I try to go with his recommendation of 80-100g of protein, 120g for athletes.
 

Kartoffel

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Really? Peat already recommends a lower fat intake, so I think 10:1 would be really low in protein no? Like, I average around 55g of fat, so that would be 5,5g of protein lol. Also, being that protein seems to be an important marker for health and weight, I try to go with his recommendation of 80-100g of protein, 120g for athletes.

50g of protein are 200kcal - this means on a 10:1 ratio you would eat an extra 2000kcal in the form of carbs and fat, and get a total of 2200kcal.
 

Cirion

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Yes you do need some protein with carbs, but not much. I want to say Haidut posted a study some time back (if I find it I'll post it) that showed a 1:10 protein to carb protein ratio is sufficient to avoid serotonin effects of eating carbs alone. If you eat zero protein with carbs, carbs can increase serotonin, so don't eat zero protein with carbs if possible for this reason. Protein needs are somewhat relative to your weight. At only 132 lb, 120 gram of protein is actually probably more than you need. That's almost 1 gram per lb. The myth of 1 g/lb: Optimal protein intake for bodybuilders even if you lift weights, that's likely more than necessary.

I've had days I've done like 80 gram of protein but 800 gram of carb for an example of what a day in my diet might look like with a 10:1 ratio.

**just to be clear I'm not saying do a 10:1 ratio. You'll need to figure out what works for you. Just saying what I do is all. What is clear though, is if you lift weights, the ratio will skew towards the higher end almost definitely, as anything more than light weightlifting uses a lot of a glucose for energy.
 

tara

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The papaya smoothie sounds delicious - wish we had nice ones here.
My diet today, an "ideal" day: around 50g of starch from potatoes or white sweet potatoes (we don't have the red ones where I live), 200g+ of sugar, 100g added. 55-65g of fats, being 4-5g from PUFA and 25 from SFA, 120g of protein.
I'm not sure I'm reading this right, but it looks like it may not be much more than about 2000 cals? If so, that's not much for a young male. You might be hungry for more calories in general, or more carbs and/or more fat. If you've been undereating for a while, your body temps could be down to adapt to that.
Normal for an average 18 yr old male would be more like 3500 cals.
As far as ratios, 120g protein may be fine for you, or your tastes may guide you to more or less.
What does your appetite say?
 

_lppaiva

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50g of protein are 200kcal - this means on a 10:1 ratio you would eat an extra 2000kcal in the form of carbs and fat, and get a total of 2200kcal

Oh, your ratios are in relation to calories right? Because then it would make more sense yes. 55g of fat would equate 495kcal, which is about 120g. I thought you meant grams, that's why I got scared. If I was eating 55g of fat that would mean 5,5g of protein lol.

cho/fat : protein ratio of 14:1. For an adult it is probably lower, but around 10:1 works well for me.

that showed a 1:10 protein to carb protein ratio is sufficient to avoid serotonin effects of eating carbs alone.

Well, that's great news. I love carbs anyway, never tried keto because I run so we'll on them. My main problem is that I get my zinc mostly from meat, not oysters. I avoid fish in general as it is much harder to control quality. In Brazil, we have cuts of beef called "patinho" and "acém", which have 8,1mg of zinc/100mg. My "RDA" is 16mg+, so that means around 160mg + zinc from the other foods (which isn't much). But that already gets me to like 70g of protein alone. If Kartoffel's estimates are right however, I am still pretty much in range, as the 10:1 ratio is just around 120g. I'll try lowering my protein to 100g and see if I'll notice any improvements. The Serotonin stuff is pretty interesting, thanks :)



I'm not sure I'm reading this right, but it looks like it may not be much more than about 2000 cals? If so, that's not much for a young male

Yeah, Well for one I was always a chubby kid. I started doing exercises and always ate around 1900-2100kcal, which is pretty high for "normal" standards but pretty low peat wise. My main issue with increasing my calories is that I always had the "slow metabolism", so I am trying to increase it really slowly. I am currently at 2250kcal, planning on going till 2400kcal, but I really didn't want to gain weight. I will only trust in increasing my calories once my temps and heart rate are in check.

Normal for an average 18 yr old male would be more like 3500 cals.

That seems like a lot. I mean, I don't see anyone besides Bodybuilders eating that much. Are you sure? I know it's different, but I never understood Peat's view on calories. He said sedentary people with a healthy Metabolism could eat around 4000kcal, but that just doesn't seem right. I mean, unless your metabolism is great, and your supplementing T3, I don't think this is achievable. I have seen people in the forum who wanted to slow their metabolism a bit, as they had increased it so much they were hungry all the time, but Idk if they did it with supplements or not. I think the maximum I can go, while exercising is 2400kcal, with a healthy Metabolism and no hormonal supplements. Perhaps I am wrong? I try to eat every three hours, 300kcal per meal, but I will try to increase food frequency while maintaining the calories per meal. I never know how much kcal is too much per meal, as I think Ray recommends not eating too much at a time due to blood sugar issues.

As far as ratios, 120g protein may be fine for you, or your tastes may guide you to more or less.

What does your appetite say?

I feel really satiated with protein, otherwise I just stay hungry in like half an hour. Yet sometimes at night I go on a binge frenzy where I am eating every 30min. Banana with some cheese, milk and sugar. It's just this intense carb craving at night. All this indicates me that despite satiate, my protein is still too high. I will be lowering it to about 90-100g and increasing my carbs to 350-400g. Hope it will speed my Metabolism up.

Also, thanks to everyone
 

ExCarniv

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120g of protein for 2000 calories is too much, you drop protein at the same calories or increase your total calories to 2500 at least for that amount of protein.
 

tara

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I started doing exercises and always ate around 1900-2100kcal, which is pretty high for "normal" standards but pretty low peat wise.
I'm not taking 'Peat-wise' particularly, I'm meaning generally, as measured b y doubly-labelled water method (as opposed to wildly inaccurate self-reporting studies). 1900-2100 cals looks like low cals for most adults, let alone for a young man still growing and maturing.

"The compilation of 22 studies indicates that adult women have an average confirmed intake of 2500 kcal/day, using the doubly labeled water method. The average confirmed intake for the adult men was 3400 kcal/day. However, the age range in this compilation for the females was 25 and older, whereas for the males it was 22 and older. Because males younger than around 25 will consume more (for developmental reasons), the average intake listed for males is a bit higher than for fully matured male adults (approximately 3000 kcal/day).

And all these data are for those over the age of 25. What does that mean for those between the ages of 12-24? The doubly labeled water trial method is the only way to be sure of what individuals actually consume to maintain health and weight and even then we struggle to tease out true non-restricting results from within those trials.

One lone doubly labeled water trial confirms that 12 to 18 year-old males and females who maintained weight during the trial had total energy expenditure requirements that averaged 3072 kcal/day."
Homeodynamic Recovery Method, Doubly-Labeled Water Method Trials and Temperament-Based Treatment — The Eating Disorder Institute

I think I've seen Peat refer to 'normal' calories for men around 3000, and some people needing more in some circumstances. Maintaining weight on low calories can be an indication of lowered metabolism. I think this can happen for various reasons, one of which is undereating.

Your appetite may be a good guide to hw much you need - 'binges' could be your body telling you it needs more.
 

Cirion

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Men under 25 should be eating 3500 calories a day minimum based upon some links Kelj has posted on ED recovery websites. Kelj and I still strongly disagree on food choices =P But very much in agreement on caloric intakes. And minimum means -- if you are even remotely active, probably need even more. I'm over 25 and I find 3500 pretty much a minimum even for me, at 18 I can easily see needing more since your growth hasn't even necessarily stopped at that age.
 

ExCarniv

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Men under 25 should be eating 3500 calories a day minimum based upon some links Kelj has posted on ED recovery websites. Kelj and I still strongly disagree on food choices =P But very much in agreement on caloric intakes. And minimum means -- if you are even remotely active, probably need even more. I'm over 25 and I find 3500 pretty much a minimum even for me, at 18 I can easily see needing more since your growth hasn't even necessarily stopped at that age.

3500 is a bit much to start with, I'd say 2500 and check his temperatures, heart rate and energy to see if improves.
 

Cirion

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Nevertheless, 3500 is the minimum intake for a man below 25 years of age.

I Need How Many Calories?!! — The Eating Disorder Institute

Here are the guidelines for when 3500 calories applies as a MINIMUM daily intake for recovery:
You are an under 25 year old male between 5’4” and 6’0” (162.5 and 183 cm) or female with young children or an equivalent and unavoidable level of activity.

The regular menstrual cycle has stopped and/or,

You have other symptoms of starvation: feeling the cold, fatigued, foggy headed, hair loss, brittle nails, dull skin and/or,

Even if you were only underweight/dieted for a very short space of time (a few months), these guidelines apply.

But, if one wants to minimize any concerns with weight/fat gain, then yes, a plan to taper up gradually might be wise.
 
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