Too Much Protein At Once?

[BingDing]

Coffee+ milk+sugar+salt+cinnamon= :)

Oatmeal with maple syrup, cinnamon and vanilla ice cream or heavy cream have done it for me for decades! (Of course no oatmeal if I'm being super strict.)

Mmm.
Or oatmeal porridge + whole milk + stewed peaches/apples + cinnamon
Or sweet milky cocoa + gelatine + cinnamon
:)

Uh uh uh, whole milk is a weak sister, I want milk fat!! Lots of fat. Stewed fruit works, those little raisins work, but heavy cream is like heaven. YMMV, of course.

Edit: I don't mean to suggest that heavy cream is any thing more than it is to me, no one should think of this as a suggestion for their own health. Indeed, what people like or think is good for them is what they should try.

BD

 

[calliandra]

What is your opinion on the possible carcinogenic effects from sodium benzoate in cinnamon?

 

[gretchen]

I find gagging a bunch of protein down-30, 40 grams or even more- in the morning really useful. It reduces hunger and helps get to the minimum (for me) of about 70 grams a day, in fewer meals.

 

[haidut]

What is your opinion on the possible carcinogenic effects from sodium benzoate in cinnamon?

Actually, it is only carcinogenic is it forms benzene. That apparently does not happen unless you take excessive amounts of sodium benzoate (10g+), and in fact benzoic acid is potent mitochondrial uncoupler at very low doses. Btw, I am in the process of making another supplement containing benzoic acid for purposes of thermogenesis and weight loss.

 

[cantstoppeating]

...

Btw, I am in the process of making another supplement containing benzoic acid for purposes of thermogenesis and weight loss.

Perfect. Looking forward to this.

EnerGin, StressNon and... ThermoGen.

 

[kaybb]

Coffee+ milk+sugar+salt+cinnamon= :)

Oatmeal with maple syrup, cinnamon and vanilla ice cream or heavy cream have done it for me for decades! (Of course no oatmeal if I'm being super strict.)

Can I ask...when you say .."...have done it for me"...do you mean help with insomnia or reducing ammonia
Btw, sounds delicious.

 

[BingDing]

Just meant being delicious! (Who ever knew cinnamon converts to sodium benzoate which provides an alternate pathway to urea for reducing ammonia?)

I've just gotta laugh at myself here. I haven't spent much time on the forum lately, and just got back from a road trip where I saw Orcas and a Vancouver Island Marmot, I didn't worry much about what I ate or the RP world. And in one brief moment the whole thing comes back to me in a flood where I can write that parenthetical piece instantly. I don't know if it's silly or profound.

 

[Parsifal]

So does salt work as lithium to reduce ammonia?

So things to reduce ammonia:

Cinnamon (which one, I didn't really understand the difference between the 2 haidut, just understood that it was because of sodium benzoate, will sodium alone do the same?).
Salt, litihum
Keto-acids (fruits, potato juice)
Ornithine
B1, B8 (biotin)
Zinc

Others?

 

[DesertRat]

Benzoates have to be conjugated in the liver with glycine. Is this true also for sodium benzoate?
My benzene markets were high last time tested (oct 2014) and hippuric acid (sign of conjugation with glycine) was low, but glycine was high. I need to lower ammonia but feel like I'm caught in a catch 22. But I love cinnamon in coffee-milk

 

[haidut]

post 115522 Benzoates have to be conjugated in the liver with glycine. Is this true also for sodium benzoate?
My benzene markets were high last time tested (oct 2014) and hippuric acid (sign of conjugation with glycine) was low, but glycine was high. I need to lower ammonia but feel like I'm caught in a catch 22. But I love cinnamon in coffee-milk

Yes, that is actually how it lowers ammonia. Same for aspirin, since it also conjugates with glycine to form hippuric acid.

 

[mirc12354]

Could taking ceylon cinnamon with milk negaze the ammonia lpwering effects of cinammon?

 

[JDreamer]

Most studies I have seen report side effects from ingesting more than 30g per meal. The main issue is ammonia, which for most people is a real problem since most people have suboptimal liver function. This guideline(<=30g) seems very close to the studies showing side effects from taking more than 25g of BCAA per meal, keeping in mind that BCAA escape hepatic metabolism and should not generate as much ammonia. Furthermore, Ray wrote that eating too much protein in each meal acutely raises prolactin (as does drinking a lot of water). So, I'd keep protein intake at 25g-30g per meal and BCAA at <5g per meal in order to reduce serotonin without increasing ammonia.
Alternatively, you can buy some Ceylon cinnamon and take 1g-2g with each high protein meal. It has to be Ceylon type since regular cinnamon contains coumarin, which is a carcinogen. In addition, only Ceylon type metabolizes into sodium benzoate, which chelates ammonia. In the USA, sodium benzoate is sold as a drug called Ucephan, to reduce ammonia in people with bad liver or kidney function. I also posted a study some time ago on Ceylon cinnamon potently reducing NO synthesis and reversing Parkinson disease in a mice model.
Try it out before going to bed - 1g-2g with something sweet since it may lower blood sugar. It will make you pee ammonia like crazy and you will sleep deep and sound with no awakening during the night. That tells me most people probably build up ammonia as they age. There is a study using the amino acid ornithine, where 500mg of ornithine for 2 weeks relieved insomnia in fatigued middle aged men. Ornithine also lowers ammonia but not as well as sodium benzoate. Finally, lithium and other sodium compounds will also lower ammonia. So, increasing sodium intake should have similar effects.
Anyways, just thought I'd mention what I've read and tried.

Not to sound gross, but ammonia is what I think I'm smelling quite a bit now after workouts. It's always down below near my ****.

Perhaps I need to give this Ceylon a try.

 

[James IV]

I think what's missing from a lot of these studies and findings is the aspect of human adaption. If you give a person (rat studies are useless) that normally eats 3-6 small meals a day more than 30g in one sitting, yes, they will likely not be able to utilize/dispose of higher levels of protein, because they are taxing their digestive and exocrine system constantly. All of these systems have a "recharge" time, that no one seems to talk much about. All these acids, enzymes, hormones, etc, are not available in endless amounts at any time.
In a person that is adapted to eat 1-2 meals a day, or eats in a smaller time window, their protein synthesis, insulin sensitivity, and liver detoxification capacity, will all be more efficient, and likely able to utilize a much larger bolus of protein, nutrients, and calories.

I've read Lewis and Clarks journals regarding their time spent with the Native Americans. They said they would work, hunt, and travel relentlessly and vigorously, sometimes for days with little to no food. When they would make a large kill, the men would eat 4-5 lbs of meat in a sitting and fall asleep. When they woke up they would gorge themselves again on meat and sleep again. After this recovery, they could again go for days with little to no food, until the next kill.

It's never made any sense to me that a healthy person should need to eat constantly to maintain their energy and vigor. Quite the opposite in fact.
I eat about 40-60g of protein with my normal meals. Sometimes I eat over 100g in one sitting if I can only eat once in a day. My body composition, digestion, energy, etc, is always better, eating more food, less often.
If you are sick, you may need lots of small meals. But at this point, I'm not sure if that is really even beneficial to healing.

This also likely has some differences between the sexes. Although the different sexes seem to be starting to blend and trade/share traits these days. So who knows.

 

[BibleBeliever]

Most studies I have seen report side effects from ingesting more than 30g per meal. The main issue is ammonia, which for most people is a real problem since most people have suboptimal liver function. This guideline(<=30g) seems very close to the studies showing side effects from taking more than 25g of BCAA per meal, keeping in mind that BCAA escape hepatic metabolism and should not generate as much ammonia. Furthermore, Ray wrote that eating too much protein in each meal acutely raises prolactin (as does drinking a lot of water). So, I'd keep protein intake at 25g-30g per meal and BCAA at <5g per meal in order to reduce serotonin without increasing ammonia.
Alternatively, you can buy some Ceylon cinnamon and take 1g-2g with each high protein meal. It has to be Ceylon type since regular cinnamon contains coumarin, which is a carcinogen. In addition, only Ceylon type metabolizes into sodium benzoate, which chelates ammonia. In the USA, sodium benzoate is sold as a drug called Ucephan, to reduce ammonia in people with bad liver or kidney function. I also posted a study some time ago on Ceylon cinnamon potently reducing NO synthesis and reversing Parkinson disease in a mice model.
Try it out before going to bed - 1g-2g with something sweet since it may lower blood sugar. It will make you pee ammonia like crazy and you will sleep deep and sound with no awakening during the night. That tells me most people probably build up ammonia as they age. There is a study using the amino acid ornithine, where 500mg of ornithine for 2 weeks relieved insomnia in fatigued middle aged men. Ornithine also lowers ammonia but not as well as sodium benzoate. Finally, lithium and other sodium compounds will also lower ammonia. So, increasing sodium intake should have similar effects.
Anyways, just thought I'd mention what I've read and tried.

Very interesting about the cinnamon. I know somewhere else you posted that half a gram of ceylon may boost dopamine.

Been reading these threads all day
This looks like a good deal for BCAAs:
BCAA

 

[Kyle Bigman]

I just consumed 100 grams of protein in one sitting. I had to sleep.