TocoVit - Liquid Vitamin E From Wheat Germ Oil

[DaveFoster]

 

[Waynish]

I'm wondering what other supplements could be made this way? Are there other potent extracts that we can use alternatively from chemically-extracted reduced ones? I heard chirality of vitamin C is different from the natural form, but haven't verified it. How about just using the same processes on a variety of foods to concentrate their nutrients?

 

[DHT]

im really interessted in tocovit but im living in germany and im asking myself if the customs would let it through or it would be engross does any1 has experience in this case.

 

[ddjd]

How long on average would a bottle of tocovit last for?

 

[haidut]

How long on average would a bottle of tocovit last for?

If used at 20 drops daily then it should last for 28-30 days.

 

[ddjd]

im really interessted in tocovit but im living in germany and im asking myself if the customs would let it through or it would be engross does any1 has experience in this case.

Where in Germany are you. Haidut said sometimes they go through fine. I'm in cologne and ordering soon, fingers crossed it will work!

 

[Amazoniac]

@Travis - what would be the best way to remove TocoVit from skin in your opinion?

I thought about this:

Use coconut oil to help removing it. Search for "oil cleansing method": testosterone drops by half, but you can restore it using Tenacitylsalicylic or Travisinic acid.

And Zeus suggested rubbing some alcohol, but the product isn't just tocopherols.

Deep Cleansing Oil® | Makeup Remover | DHC | Your Japanese beauty expert | DHC
This product is supposed to be an effective make-up remover. I'm posting it for the ingredients.

Maybe coconut oil, then tequila, salt, then bite a lime, hit your head on the table, then tie yourself to the back of a car, lay your body on the side that you applied the product, and ask the driver to find a street with rough asphalt, go full speed while you squeeze the other half of the lime that was on your pocket. After this procedure, 5% of TocoVit is removed.

 

[Amazoniac]

Lucid,
My ears have shrunk about 10% in a matter of weeks. It's ok if you don't believe me because I wouldn't if I was reading something similar. I wasn't expecting anything, I thought that such things weren't possible, especially in such a brief period. It was probably a combination of factors and I can't trace back to anything specific. However I'm sure that some of your supplements contributed, TocoVit is one of them, highly suspected.
It immediately reminded me of your posts about stress and changes of facial features. In case you missed my message, please check it again.

I tried this supplement orally and it wasn't good. On the other hand I had good results with topical use.
However, after a few days I started to get some intense irritation. It reminded me of a few acne products that used to contain squalene that I always reacted to them. For being a thick substance, I suppose that it coats the hair follicles pretty much like the skin that doesn't shed in a coordinated manner and creates a favorable environment for acne, which seems to be what happened. When I analyzed closer, the reaction diokinetheconfusionabator seemed to occur around each follicle (leg) in an inflammed way.
Élie schooled me on this (from first reference):
Principles Of Human Physiology (1920)
View attachment 5632
View attachment 5633

So if anyone experiences some sort of irritation, it's worth considering applying supplements such as this on parts of the skin that don't have much hair.
All in all, I'm pretty impressed.

I've waited until I had a clearer picture of what happened.

That was my worst skin reaction to a product, it progressed to the point where I could easily be featured in those skin disorders books (no exaggeration).
Back then I had a few odd things going on (such as the bizarre reaction when some specific starches and dairy are combined) and I initially attributed to them and thought that TocoVit only exacerbated.

I'm sure the adverse situation made things worse, but what I've come to realize is that TocoVit really irritates my pores. At least this is what has been happening ever since. A month ago or so I started to develop the same scary reaction, however instead of legs, it was on my arms. Ironically I don't have any adverse reaction other than this localized irritation, and only owaaa pores. I was applying the product on my palms without problems and no signs of irritation at all. But on this specific occasion, I accidentally spread some throughout my arms while washing: it was enough to start the reaction within minutes and lasting for days. Which is strange and makes me think that it can't be something related to coating the pores: it occurs too fast.

But anyway, this time I realized that my reflection had something unusual to it (in a good way), as a lingering effect of your vit E for sure; and at the same time my teeth had some translucent parts. Zeus, I know you think about the possibility of vit K2 metabolites remaining active despite its fast disappearance in the body, but in my experience the vit E is much stronger and remains active for much longer.*
I took it as a sign of vit K depletion and started to supplement mk4 through skin. I'm usually familiarized with the effects, and this time it took longer to kick in. It must have depleted my body of K.
The inflammation started to become restrained and began to disappear little by little. It wasn't magic, because the product remains somehow impregnated in the pore region for days.

I have the impression that copper was involved as well, but I'm still thinking about it (such as vit E, zinc/copper interaction).

I'm sharing it as an update, and in case someone experiences something similar. But meanwhile I'll be singing the classic.

*High-dose Vitamin K2 Supplementation

 

[Travis]

@Travis - what would be the best way to remove TocoVit from skin in your opinion?

Oooow.. . . ..I've got it‼ Buy recombinant cyclooxygenase-2 straight from www.creative-enzymes.com... and turn all of the lipids, including α-tocopherol, straight into prostaglandins‼ You can essentially convert these lipids directly into melanoma, the lesser of two evils—analogous to voting for Richard Nixon over George Bush in a hypothetical election.

Or perhaps a more milder approach could be using a ferrous iron (Fe²⁺) bath to turn all skin oils into one giant sheet of lipofuscin, which would then isolate the α-tocopherols preventing further dispersion—the embargo, quarantine approach.. . . . . ..or the Brunk & Terman Balkanization.

Or perhaps coconut oil could help reduce any electron transfer by electrically-insulating the tocopherol—the Peat-inspired approach, which I think is a better idea than the two previously mentioned.

It has been experimentally-determined that α-tocopherol displaces the more common γ-tocopherol through ingestion. This is commonly thought to be simply a function of chylomicron carrying capacity—the overcrowding of limited space by α-tocopherol thereby reducing γ-tocopherol transport to the periphery. Gamma-tocopherol has different properties than α-tocopherol, and it appears to be able to safely absorb reactive nitrogen species while the alpha molecule cannot. This could perhaps be the reason why α-tocopherol leads to only modest reductions in cancer incidence, while γ-tocopherol is a more powerful anti-carcinogen. Perhaps coconut oil with γ-tocopherol would be the best approach?

Gamma-tocopherol is actually more ubiquitous in foods, but α-tocopherol got lowercase Greek primacy simply due to the fact that it was characterized first. It then got vitamin status based on the fact that it was shown to increase the ability of rats to conceive other, baby, microscopic rats. Watch-out, this stuff literally helps spawn rodents!. . . . . ..while γ-tocopherol has never been demonstrated to do such a thing.

• Martin, Archer John Porter, and Thomas Moore. "Some effects of prolonged vitamin E deficiency in the rat." Epidemiology & Infection 39.6 (1939):
• Mason, Karl E. "Minimal requirements of male and female rats for vitamin E." American Journal of Physiology--Legacy Content 131.1 (1940):

Mouse uterine biology occupied the cutting edge of vitamin E research in the '30s. Its absolute necessity for mouse reproduction became so well-known that articles such as these appeared in the '40s.

• Bacharach, A. L., and M. R. A. Chance. "The Oestrogenic Inactivity of α-Tocopherol Acetate." Journal of Endocrinology 2.2 (1940): 162-164.

How can a molecule help make babies without it being œstrogenic? (An actual contradiction in terms, as you can see, if you consider the more literal meaning of the term œstrogenic.)

I vote for using topical mixed tocopherols in low-molecular-weight-solvent-free media with coconut oil. We have evolved to have all four (α, β, γ, and δ) types of tocopherols. Think of how many different protective molecular functions—and the more Greek words you can spell!—with all four types?

Beta-tocopherol and δ-tocopherol—not actually the derivative of vitamin E, despite what the math geeks say—are less prevalent than the other two aforementioned types. These can be probably be seen as slight variations of the two common tocopherols: namely, α and γ.

 

[Amazoniac]

Oooow.. . . ..I've got it‼ Buy recombinate cyclooxygenase-2 straight from www.creative-enzymes.com... and turn all of the lipids, including α-tocopherol, straight into prostaglandins‼ You can essentially convert these lipids directly into melanoma, the lesser of two evils—analogous to voting for Richard Nixon over George Bush in a hypothetical election.

Or perhaps a more milder approach could be using a ferrous iron (Fe²⁺) bath to turn all skin oils into one giant sheet of lipofuscin, which would then isolate the α-tocopherols preventing further dispersion—the embargo, quarantine approach.. . . . . ..or the Brunk & Terman Balkanization.

Or perhaps coconut oil could help reduce any electron transfer by electrically-insulating the tocopherol—the Peat-inspired approach, which I think is a better idea than the two previously mentioned.

It has been experimentally-determined that α-tocopherol displaces the more common γ-tocopherol through ingestion. This is commonly thought to be simply a function of chylomicron carrying capacity—the overcrowding of limited space by α-tocopherol thereby reducing γ-tocopherol transport to the periphery. Gamma-tocopherol has different properties than α-tocopherol, and it appears to be able to safely absorb reactive nitrogen species while the alpha molecule cannot. This could perhaps be the reason why α-tocopherol leads to only modest reductions in cancer incidence, while γ-tocopherol is a more powerful anti-carcinogen. Perhaps coconut oil with γ-tocopherol would be the best approach?

Gamma-tocopherol is actually more ubiquitous in foods, but α-tocopherol got lowercase Greek primacy simply due to the fact that it was characterized first. It then got vitamin status based on the fact that it was shown to increase the ability of rats to conceive other, baby, microscopic rats. Watch-out, this stuff literally help spawn rodents!. . . . . ..while γ-tocopherol has never been demonstrated to do such a thing.

• Martin, Archer John Porter, and Thomas Moore. "Some effects of prolonged vitamin E deficiency in the rat." Epidemiology & Infection 39.6 (1939): 643-652.
• Mason, Karl E. "Minimal requirements of male and female rats for vitamin E." American Journal of Physiology--Legacy Content 131.1 (1940): 268-280.

Mouse uterine biology occupied the cutting edge of vitamin E research. Its absolute necessity for mouse reproduction was so well-known that articles such as these appeared in the '40s.

• Bacharach, A. L., and M. R. A. Chance. "The Oestrogenic Inactivity of α-Tocopherol Acetate." Journal of Endocrinology 2.2 (1940): 162-164.

How can a molecule help make babies without it being œstrogenic? (An actual contradiction in terms, as you can see, if you consider the more literal meaning of the term œstrogenic.)

I vote for using topical mixed tocopherols in low-molecular-weight-solvent-free media with coconut oil. We have evolved to have all four (α, β, γ, and δ) types of tocopherols. Think of how many different protective molecular functions—and the more Greek words you can spell!—with all four types?

Beta-tocopherol and δ-tocopherol—not actually the derivative of vitamin E, despite what the math geeks say—are less prevalent than the other two aforementioned types. These can be probably be seen as slight variations of the two common tocopherols: namely, α and γ.

Thanks for the reply. A thread entitled "Travisord, the comedian" soon.

Spoiler: The contents of tocopherols and tocotrienols (mg/100 g of oil) in some common edible oils.

Tocopherols and Tocotrienols in Common and Emerging Dietary Sources: Occurrence, Applications, and Health Benefits

Wheat germ pboyl has a proportional distribution. What about the.. escorting lipids? Are you familiar with them?

Other ingredients: sterols, triglycerides, terpenes (e.g. squalene), terpenoids (e.g. lanosterol)

You write a lot about the changing of composition of skin lipids from external hormones, the sterols here might have a similar effect. It's a tough product to remove from the skin and causes localized superficial irritation only on pores, at least in my experience. No negative effects elsewhere, the systemic effects are excellent. After this irritation passes, it seems that the region was burned. Maybe the tocopherols penetrate deeply too fast where there are pores and fry everything in contact.

 

[Travis]

Thanks for the reply. A thread entitled "Travisord, the comedian" soon.

Spoiler: The contents of tocopherols and tocotrienols (mg/100 g of oil) in some common edible oils.

Tocopherols and Tocotrienols in Common and Emerging Dietary Sources: Occurrence, Applications, and Health Benefits
View attachment 7225

Wheat germ pboyl has a proportional distribution. What about the.. escorting lipids? Are you familiar with them?

You write a lot about the changing of composition of skin lipids from external hormones, the sterols here might have a similar effect. It's a tough product to remove from the skin and causes localized superficial irritation only on pores, at least in my experience. No negative effects elsewhere, the systemic effects are excellent. After this irritation passes, it seems that the region was burned. Maybe the tocopherols penetrate deeply too fast where there are pores and fry everything in contact.

Unusually-high levels of β-tocopherol in wheat germ oil!

What about the.. escorting lipids? Are you familiar with them?

Escorts can certainly cause irritation, especially the cheaper ones.

What other terpenes are present? Are they all mammalian terpenes, or are there plant terpenes as well?

 

[Amazoniac]

Unusually-high levels of β-tocopherol in wheat germ oil!

I thought that the high-everything else was more than enough to balance.

What other terpenes are present? Are they all mammalian terpenes, or are there plant terpenes as well?

No sharks involved, only a bullgarian's sweat from the labor in sourcing it.
I've reacted to squalene before, but it took some time.

 

[johnsmith]

I just had a 3 hour long episode of anger and racing thoughts (PTSD style). Then I took just 10 oral drops of TocoVit. Symptoms resided completely.

Edit - Symptoms came back a bit 40 minutes later.

 

[Amazoniac]

"Choline has much to do with the oxidation of fats. That it prevents the conversion of amino acids and of sugars to fats under the influence of cholesterol, it seems there is sufficient evidence when the rest of the oxidation mechanism is normal. It does not aid the burning of aceto-acetic acid [acetylsucholine], but where the rest of the oxidation mechanism is sound, its presence favors the burning of fats or their precursors by another route. It is, therefore, an important link in the oxidation mechanism, but of course where the oxidation process is otherwise impaired we must assume that it not only fails to function and therefore accumulates [again] or is formed in greater quantity for compensation than normally occurs; and worst of all it is not burned itself and produces its toxic effects. Thus one might well assume that it is a factor in coronary disease, much like cholesterol is in other vascular degeneration that are so well known. In fact they both accumulate where the normal catalysis of oxidation is broken, and therefore both coronary disease and atheromatous degeneration and arterial sclerosis depend upon one basic deficiency, a crippled oxidation catalysis [also known as hypotravisism]." "Vascular normalcy is important to tissue function and obliterative vascular disease so often the cause of tissue degeneration that one might say that all disease shows its marks on the vascular system early or late. The infectious granulomata all start out with an obliterative endarteritis. Cancer does also, and cancer should be classified with the granulomata. They are all based upon toxic activity that destroys oxidation catalysis. They are all curable by restoration of the oxidation catalysis to normal or to better than normal."

Terpene - Wikipedia

"They are the major components of resin, and of turpentine produced from resin. The name "terpene" is derived from the word "turpentine". In addition to their roles as end-products in many organisms, terpenes are major biosynthetic building blocks within nearly every living creature. Steroids, for example, are derivatives of the triterpene squalene."

"When terpenes are modified chemically, such as by oxidation or rearrangement of the carbon skeleton, the resulting compounds are generally referred to as terpenoids. Some authors will use the term terpene to include all terpenoids. Terpenoids are also known as isoprenoids."

"Vitamin A is a terpenoid."

Triterpene - Wikipedia

"Animals, plants and fungi all create triterpenes, with arguably the most important example being squalene as it forms the basis of almost all steroids."

Squalene - Wikipedia

"Squalene is a natural 30-carbon organic compound originally obtained for commercial purposes primarily from shark liver oil (hence its name, as Squalus is a genus of sharks), although plant sources (primarily vegetable oils) are now used as well, including amaranth seed, rice bran, wheat germ, and olives. Yeast cells have been genetically engineered to produce commercially useful quantities of "synthetic" squalene.[4]

All plants and animals produce squalene as a biochemical intermediate, including humans. It occurs in high concentrations in the stomach oil of birds in the order Procellariiformes. Squalene is a hydrocarbon and a triterpene, and is a precursor for synthesis of all plant and animal sterols, including cholesterol and steroid hormones in the human body."​

It's possible that, for the same reasons why the metabolism of cholesterol is impaired along with metabolism, squalene and other similar compounds might not be metabolized properly in the body and cause more problems when administered.

 

[Travis]

Terpene - Wikipedia

"They are the major components of resin, and of turpentine produced from resin. The name "terpene" is derived from the word "turpentine". In addition to their roles as end-products in many organisms, terpenes are major biosynthetic building blocks within nearly every living creature. Steroids, for example, are derivatives of the triterpene squalene."

"When terpenes are modified chemically, such as by oxidation or rearrangement of the carbon skeleton, the resulting compounds are generally referred to as terpenoids. Some authors will use the term terpene to include all terpenoids. Terpenoids are also known as isoprenoids."

"Vitamin A is a terpenoid."

Triterpene - Wikipedia

"Animals, plants and fungi all create triterpenes, with arguably the most important example being squalene as it forms the basis of almost all steroids."

Squalene - Wikipedia

"Squalene is a natural 30-carbon organic compound originally obtained for commercial purposes primarily from shark liver oil (hence its name, as Squalus is a genus of sharks), although plant sources (primarily vegetable oils) are now used as well, including amaranth seed, rice bran, wheat germ, and olives. Yeast cells have been genetically engineered to produce commercially useful quantities of "synthetic" squalene.[4]

All plants and animals produce squalene as a biochemical intermediate, including humans. It occurs in high concentrations in the stomach oil of birds in the order Procellariiformes. Squalene is a hydrocarbon and a triterpene, and is a precursor for synthesis of all plant and animal sterols, including cholesterol and steroid hormones in the human body."​

It's possible that, for the same reasons why the metabolism of cholesterol is impaired along with metabolism, squalene and other similar compounds might not be metabolized properly in the body and cause more problems when administered.

I was thinking that perhaps this could involve eicosanoids somehow. Can the reason one person reacts to a lipid—while another not—simply be explained by cell membrane arachidonic acid levels, cyclooxygenase-2 transcriptional activity, 5-lipoxygenase activity, prostaglandin I₂ synthase activity, 12-lipoxygenase activity, phospholipase A₂ activity, extant immunophilin levels, and perhaps even redox status?

Topical vitamin E and oil formulations are probably fine for most people, most of the time; but could be problematic—as can perhaps most any oil—for some of those people, some of the time.

I don't want to imply that there is something pathological about reacting to such a thing, but even perhaps the opposite. I think you can get away with saying that, generally, children and healthy people have a more responsive immune system—an elaborate biology tuned by each individual based on past events and cellular arachidonic acid, prostaglandins, and the transcripts and enzymes which produce them. The are over twenty biologically-relevant eicosanoids, representing a class of hormones rivaling steroids in size. And like the steroids, small elaborations of the basic prostaglandin structure represent great changes in physiological activity.

Molecules like histamine and niacin are known to interact with the G protein receptors; these receptors are also involved in prostaglandin signalling.

The mechanism of the niacin flush is most often attributed to the release of prostaglandin D₂.

 

[haidut]

I've waited until I had a clearer picture of what happened.

That was my worst skin reaction to a product, it progressed to the point where I could easily be featured in those skin disorders books (no exaggeration).
Back then I had a few odd things going on (such as the bizarre reaction when some specific starches and dairy are combined) and I initially attributed to them and thought that TocoVit only exacerbated.

I'm sure the adverse situation made things worse, but what I've come to realize is that TocoVit really irritates my pores. At least this is what has been happening ever since. A month ago or so I started to develop the same scary reaction, however instead of legs, it was on my arms. Ironically I don't have any adverse reaction other than this localized irritation, and only owaaa pores. I was applying the product on my palms without problems and no signs of irritation at all. But on this specific occasion, I accidentally spread some throughout my arms while washing: it was enough to start the reaction within minutes and lasting for days. Which is strange and makes me think that it can't be something related to coating the pores: it occurs too fast.

But anyway, this time I realized that my reflection had something unusual to it (in a good way), as a lingering effect of your vit E for sure; and at the same time my teeth had some translucent parts. Zeus, I know you think about the possibility of vit K2 metabolites remaining active despite its fast disappearance in the body, but in my experience the vit E is much stronger and remains active for much longer.*
I took it as a sign of vit K depletion and started to supplement mk4 through skin. I'm usually familiarized with the effects, and this time it took longer to kick in. It must have depleted my body of K.
The inflammation started to become restrained and began to disappear little by little. It wasn't magic, because the product remains somehow impregnated in the pore region for days.

I have the impression that copper was involved as well, but I'm still thinking about it (such as vit E, zinc/copper interaction).

I'm sharing it as an update, and in case someone experiences something similar. But meanwhile I'll be singing the classic.

*High-dose Vitamin K2 Supplementation

Thanks for the update. So, I gather using vitamin K with vitamin E is imperative for some people to prevent the skin irritation, right?

 

[Amazoniac]

In my case it's possible that there were other factors involved that I haven't identified yet. For example, there is a possibility that the thick lipids concentrate on the region before dissipating, and as I wash the area to remove the product, some compound from the soap reacts with it where there are pores and initiate the problem. But all in all K2 was helpful only as long as it wasn't in excess.

 

[DaveFoster]

"Beginning in 1966, I started calling the syndrome 'winter sickness,' but over the next few years, because of the prominence of the premenstrual syndrome and fertility problems in these seasonally exacerbated disorders, I began calling it the pathology of estrogen dominance."

- Aging Eyes, Infant Eyes, and Excitable Tissues

@haidut

Do you think 800 IU vitamin E (as w/ TocoVit + micronized progesterone, or just TocoVit by itself) taken daily during the winter would be harmful?

 

[Waynish]

I've used pretty large amounts of this on my skin without irritation. I don't know if this is gluten free, but I've celiac's and I've not had any gluten reactions. I have gotten pretty hot & uncomfortable (like neck tightness) from this, but I don't notice if I take it before sleep.

 

[PhilParma]

It definitely irritates my skin. Redness and bumps at the application site that persist for a few days.