To Those With A Very Physical Job

mrdannyg3

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Heavily fatigued after work, guys. I need a few hours just sitting around to even want to move off the couch; clearly a big increase in estrogen, seretonin, lactic acid etc. from the work day (I'm in the trades). Any tips from those with a similar demanding, physical work day (maybe nurses, tradesmen, mechanics, those always on foot)? Do you take anything that really helps keep energy levels up and fatigue at bay? I'll address the obvious - yes it's just best to find a new job.
 

Charger

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I work in the trades. Dopaminergics, caffeine, carbs, and keeping androgens up keep me energized.

Look into:
Cat's Claw (Reduces estrogen and inhibits MAO-B, reduces aching and discomfort from physical work noticeably.)
Ginkgo Biloba
Forskolin
Thiamine HCL
PRL-8-53
Phosphatidylserine
Thyroid, if you need it.

Idealabs supplements such as Androsterone (or low dose Exemestane) can help you power through a rough day or period if it seems like nothing else is doing it for you.

I'm an electrician and I pretty much never get tired or sore when my diet is on point and I stick to those core supplements. If anything, I'm too restless.
 
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mrdannyg3

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Dude, fantastic. Thanks. What do you think is top 2 or 3 for you? Guess I’m looking to keep it simple. Btw have some of those on your list been discussed on the forum? I’m so used to just seeing progesterone, thyroid, DHEA etc lol
 

redsun

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Heavily fatigued after work, guys. I need a few hours just sitting around to even want to move off the couch; clearly a big increase in estrogen, seretonin, lactic acid etc. from the work day (I'm in the trades). Any tips from those with a similar demanding, physical work day (maybe nurses, tradesmen, mechanics, those always on foot)? Do you take anything that really helps keep energy levels up and fatigue at bay? I'll address the obvious - yes it's just best to find a new job.
Need way more calories/carbs probably and protein. If your job is very physical you need more way more choline in your diet as well as calcium if you are not getting much as physical labor depletes these faster then normal (especially choline). You can use sunflower lecithin as an easier way to get more choline besides eating eggs.
 

Charger

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Dude, fantastic. Thanks. What do you think is top 2 or 3 for you? Guess I’m looking to keep it simple. Btw have some of those on your list been discussed on the forum? I’m so used to just seeing progesterone, thyroid, DHEA etc lol

Cat's Claw is probably #1. Whenever I take it out of my stack, I notice less motivation, feel less androgenic, and notice more aches. My mother also takes it for her rheumatoid arthritis and says it helps her noticeably.

Phosphatidylserine is powerful for reducing cortisol/stress. I notice more patience and resilience at work whereas other times I'd be more stressed out without it.

Tie between PRL-8-53, Forskolin, or Ginkgo for third. PRL reduces serotonin and inhibits dopamine reuptake, Forskolin increases Tyrosine Hydroxylase and testosterone, Ginkgo is a dopaminergic 5-HT2A antagonist.

I second redsun on getting enough protein and calcium, I supplement Calcium Pyruvate and it's noticeably dopaminergic on its own.

Many of these supplements are discussed by Hans on his www.men-elite.com website.
 
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mrdannyg3

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Cat's Claw is probably #1. Whenever I take it out of my stack, I notice less motivation, feel less androgenic, and notice more aches. My mother also takes it for her rheumatoid arthritis and says it helps her noticeably.

Phosphatidylserine is powerful for reducing cortisol/stress. I notice more patience and resilience at work whereas other times I'd be more stressed out without it.

Tie between PRL-8-53, Forskolin, or Ginkgo for third. PRL reduces serotonin and inhibits dopamine reuptake, Forskolin increases Tyrosine Hydroxylase and testosterone, Ginkgo is a dopaminergic 5-HT2A antagonist.

I second redsun on getting enough protein and calcium, I supplement Calcium Pyruvate and it's noticeably dopaminergic on its own.

Many of these supplements are discussed by Hans on his www.men-elite.com website.
Cat's Claw is probably #1. Whenever I take it out of my stack, I notice less motivation, feel less androgenic, and notice more aches. My mother also takes it for her rheumatoid arthritis and says it helps her noticeably.

Phosphatidylserine is powerful for reducing cortisol/stress. I notice more patience and resilience at work whereas other times I'd be more stressed out without it.

Tie between PRL-8-53, Forskolin, or Ginkgo for third. PRL reduces serotonin and inhibits dopamine reuptake, Forskolin increases Tyrosine Hydroxylase and testosterone, Ginkgo is a dopaminergic 5-HT2A antagonist.

I second redsun on getting enough protein and calcium, I supplement Calcium Pyruvate and it's noticeably dopaminergic on its own.

Many of these supplements are discussed by Hans on his www.men-elite.com website.
Many thanks
 
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mrdannyg3

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Need way more calories/carbs probably and protein.
That’s my dilemma right now, I’m at 150g protein minimum and probably nearing 200 a day. Calcium up the wazoo via milk and cheese, and eggs at 4 a day. Cals have to be 3k at least, I’m 6’0 210. Aspirin nearing a gram a day, thyroid 2 grains, a couple cups coffee. All that and the same old story come quitting time
 

Charger

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It helps to stick to food you respond well too, but diet alone could never get me where I needed to be mentally and physically which is why I have a kitchen sink approach when it comes to supplements.
 

redsun

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That’s my dilemma right now, I’m at 150g protein minimum and probably nearing 200 a day. Calcium up the wazoo via milk and cheese, and eggs at 4 a day. Cals have to be 3k at least, I’m 6’0 210. Aspirin nearing a gram a day, thyroid 2 grains, a couple cups coffee. All that and the same old story come quitting time
Coffee and thyroid is further draining you that is the problem. Its like carrying around an extra hundred pounds of weight everywhere you go. The amount of stress this puts your body under coupled with physical stress of your job is ending you. Aspirin is not really good to take daily as it somewhat reduces inflammatory processes that are necessary for healing and repair of tissue. This is especially the case the more you take.

How much meat are you also eating? Dairy doesnt add that much choline though it contributes and 4 eggs is great for getting a lot but you may not be hitting 1g of choline total from this without also a considerable amount of meat which I think someone in your position needs long term.

You need to remove extra stimulants and stressors on the body. They basically simulate exercise at rest as your oxygen demand becomes higher than normal and your breathing rate is way higher as it constantly pushes and keeps you in a sympathetic dominant like state. The fact that it takes you a few hours to get moving after work indicates your body is kind of failing from the stress. Now I am not saying its normal to feel a little beat after a hard day of work, but a few hours is way too long and even then you probably still are lethargic and barely going even after that.

How much caffeine do you get a day? The higher your caffeine intake is, the weaker your bodies own adrenergic tone becomes (which is where your energy comes from). So though in a pinch it can save you, chronic high doses leads to low adrenergic tone and thus lower baseline energy. The human body is really effective in this regard as long as your adrenergic tone is not downregulated. But too much caffeine strongly downregulates it which is a problem.

Caffeine also dose-dependently raises cortisol. If you dont consume that much caffeine the increase in cortisol isnt as bad but if its a lot it gets to be significant. Cortisol is a catabolic and destructive hormone if chronically high.
 
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mrdannyg3

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Yes I’ve thought about caffeine and aspirin and wondered if they were helping or hurting. Caffeine is probably 250mg a day. And for meat, I’m not gonna lie sometimes I only have it once a week: ground beef steak etc. Dairy is just so convenient for the milk and cheese and easy protein and cals so it’s the bulk of my diet. If you’re suggesting 1gram of choline I’m probably only 600mg. And yes, these long recharge periods after work have to go. Would you take anything extra @redsun from a supplement standpoint?
 

redsun

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Yes I’ve thought about caffeine and aspirin and wondered if they were helping or hurting. Caffeine is probably 250mg a day. And for meat, I’m not gonna lie sometimes I only have it once a week: ground beef steak etc. Dairy is just so convenient for the milk and cheese and easy protein and cals so it’s the bulk of my diet. If you’re suggesting 1gram of choline I’m probably only 600mg. And yes, these long recharge periods after work have to go. Would you take anything extra @redsun from a supplement standpoint?
Ok well I would make way more effort to eat more unprocessed meat. It should be easier considering you need a lot of calories you can consume higher fat meats which are much tastier. Besides being a good source of micronutrients, it has a lot of important amino acids especially glycine which helps increase excitatory neurotransmission, improving energy. Glycine is quite lacking in other forms of protein except meat. I personally consume around 13-14 oz of cooked meat of various kinds daily. I would aim for 10 oz daily at least and even more if possible. This alone should help you dramatically.

600mg choline is bare minimum for someone who is very sedentary. You may get over 1g just by significantly increasing meat intake. But on days you dont eat as much meat you can supplement sunflower lecithin to make up the difference. But I highly recommend significant amounts of meat consumption. It is indispensable when it comes to maintaining a higher energy state. You will see this for yourself if you make effort to consume a lot of it every day. That would probably mean less dairy to make room for meat. I hope you did not make yourself iron deficient with you subsisting heavily on dairy. This could be part of the problem and keeping dairy intake to 3-4 servings while getting more meat should deal with this issue as you should absorb more iron.

You may be fine on this dose of caffeine if you start eating more meat daily. So try that first. And if not I would then eventually work on weaning off caffeine to like 100mg or less slowly to restore your own adrenergic tone. This will help a lot because caffeine really gets in the way of this more than you would think once the dose gets beyond a certain point.

Cats claw which is something that increases dopamine by reducing its breakdown doesnt really make sense because what you have is a lack of energy problem. If you further raise dopamine, it may motivate you in vain as you will be more likely to ignore your fatigue which just worsens the problem. But I do think phosphatidylserine is beneficial as well as phosphatidylcholine (this is where choline in sunflower lecithin comes from).

Another thing is thyroid should eventually be reduced as this can also be stressful. It is very odd to me that an adult male does actually need thyroid. Women because they eat very little and sporadically generally and tend to be anemic have weak thyroids. Very rarely is this the case in men. Did you actually get tested and diagnosed with low thyroid hormones?
 

Herbie

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I’m a car mechanic, work 45 hours a week with no breaks and drink one coffee in the morning and drink whole milk as main source of food up to a gallon a day and that is the best thing I’ve found and because I can’t stop for lunch. I would take aspirin for any injuries I get or aches and pains.

Only supplement I would recommend is pregnenolone. But sometimes the body needs rest, I enjoy lounging around when I’m not working.
 

Andman

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That’s my dilemma right now, I’m at 150g protein minimum and probably nearing 200 a day. Calcium up the wazoo via milk and cheese, and eggs at 4 a day. Cals have to be 3k at least, I’m 6’0 210. Aspirin nearing a gram a day, thyroid 2 grains, a couple cups coffee. All that and the same old story come quitting time

id start with actually counting calories/macros so you know exactly where youre at (myfitnesspal for example) - since eyeballing it doesnt seem to work
 
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mrdannyg3

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Did you actually get tested and diagnosed with low thyroid hormones
It seems I had all the cardinal symptoms: low temp and pulse, low appetite, cold, insomnia, dandruff, and as you can see, energy problems. I did blood tests and TSH was above 3, cholesterol in the 230's, and prolactin like 11, and this was even after doing a Peat diet for 2 years. So I figured what the hell. Oh btw last year I donated blood like 4 times as well as being high dairy and some caffeine, no good. Iron drastically was depleted in my body, I did the whole iron panel to test this. Have not donated blood in a year.
 
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mrdannyg3

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How are your back, hips, and shoulders?
Fine, just sore at the end of the day depending on what body part is getting used the most. But no chronic condition, no injury that needs tending to. The kicker is that I'm never really back to 100% the next day, still sluggish, kinda sore after getting out of bed. I'm like only 80% recovered in the morning before the work day.
 

Charger

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Cat's claw, while it is a MAO-B inhibitor, is not comparable to something like Selegiline, I don't find it particularly stimulating and it doesn't effect my sleep one way or another.. It's anti-estrogen, NMDA antagonist, and anti-inflammatory properties are what's most noticeable. It should help with recovering from the work day into the next.

I eat about a pound of ground beef a day as my main protein source. I personally don't tolerate high amounts of dairy or milk daily, I'm not sure what it is, the high tryptophan or the potential estrogenic effect of dairy, but drinking more than a cup or two leads to me feeling off the following day. I imagine I'd feel fatigued if it were to completely replace meat for me so it is something to consider.
 
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mrdannyg3

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I'm liking the responses on meat so far. Off to the store today to get a couple pounds ground beef before everything shuts down tomorrow. I've been drinking milk, copious amounts, since childhood without an issue. Same for my brothers and sisters. Maybe it's an inherited thing.
 

redsun

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It seems I had all the cardinal symptoms: low temp and pulse, low appetite, cold, insomnia, dandruff, and as you can see, energy problems. I did blood tests and TSH was above 3, cholesterol in the 230's, and prolactin like 11, and this was even after doing a Peat diet for 2 years. So I figured what the hell. Oh btw last year I donated blood like 4 times as well as being high dairy and some caffeine, no good. Iron drastically was depleted in my body, I did the whole iron panel to test this. Have not donated blood in a year.
4x blood donation and a heavy dairy diet making it basically impossible to absorb much iron. Yeh I would say your iron status is definitely an issue with your fatigue. It will also contribute to higher prolactin if iron is too low. About of a pint of blood is lost from donation, which has about 250mg of your iron. So a total 1g of iron could have been lost from 4 donations. For reference, men on average have about 4g of iron in their body.

I'm liking the responses on meat so far. Off to the store today to get a couple pounds ground beef before everything shuts down tomorrow. I've been drinking milk, copious amounts, since childhood without an issue. Same for my brothers and sisters. Maybe it's an inherited thing.
Milk is not an issue necessarily if you digest it with no problem. Its just that it lacks some important things. Especially iron and also B3. Making endogenous B3 from tryptophan actually requires iron btw, so too much iron loss reduces the efficacy of tryptophan as a precursor for niacin. Meaning you will make much less niacin from the tryptophan you consume, very little even.

Let us know if energy improves as you incorporate more meat into your diet.
 
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Kram

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Coffee and thyroid is further draining you that is the problem. Its like carrying around an extra hundred pounds of weight everywhere you go. The amount of stress this puts your body under coupled with physical stress of your job is ending you. Aspirin is not really good to take daily as it somewhat reduces inflammatory processes that are necessary for healing and repair of tissue. This is especially the case the more you take.


Caffeine also dose-dependently raises cortisol. If you dont consume that much caffeine the increase in cortisol isnt as bad but if its a lot it gets to be significant. Cortisol is a catabolic and destructive hormone if chronically high.
Do you consider things like b-vitamins and magnesium draining? I realize everybody's situation is different but how are fatigued people supposed to resolve energy issues without taking some sort of metabolic booster?
 

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