@tca300 - I know this information is scattered about in this forum but I just wanted to gather the info in one place...
Perhaps a PM would be more suitable in this case...
@tca300 - I know this information is scattered about in this forum but I just wanted to gather the info in one place...
Perhaps a PM would be more suitable in this case...
I was thinking that initially but then thought it would be useful to everyone as in the
To Haidut : What Do You Usually Eat In A Day? thread...
Oranges or Juice
White Button Mushrooms
Beef Liver ( sometimes small amounts everyday or large amounts once per week )
MCT Oil or hydrogenated coconut oil
Apple Cider Vinegar
Considering eating oysters once per week, but not 100% sure yet.
Glycine ( recently added back in )
A,D,E,K2 ( E once per week on skin )
B1,B3,B6,Biotin ( all a workout days )
NDT or synthentic thyroid ( when ever I feel like I need an extra boost )
Magnesium Chloride or sulfate foot soaks almost everyday
Aspirin very inconsistent lately, but soon probably ~325 - 1000mg almost every day.
Red Light full body for about 10 minutes every 2-3 waking hours
Weight lifting 3 times per week, easy pace walking as much as possible.
Sleep on the floor, no pillow
I limit sex to orgasim to at most once per month, but typically less.
Thanks for taking the time to answer...greatly appreciated!
What brands do you use for the MCT Oil, Magnesium Chloride and Psyllium husk?
How much PUFA you getting daily bro?
Now food/sports for mct and psyllium
Ancient minerals for the chloride flakes
About 1.2 grams per day.
Pregnenolone ....no Dhea, correct?
A,D,E,K2 ( E once per week on skin )....??
do you really need the glycine supplementation if you take gelatin ?
No DHEA, I use Vitamins A, D, and K2 everyday and then Use E once per week on my skin.
Are you following these routines because you are trying to resolve an ongoing condition? What happens if you miss your vitamins, does your health regress?
Probably not, but I try and keep glycine intake at twice the sum of my methionine, cystine, and tryptophan intake, which is hard to do for myself using gelatin alone because I eat a lot of protein.
thanks for the clarification..
Mostly Trying to keep the metabolism high, and preserve my newfound health, I had resolved my hypothyroidism, low testosterone, erectile dysfunction, amongst many other things.
If I miss vitamin A for a day or two I start to get acne, my libido and night vision suffer. But otherwise I dont think I would notice much short term without them, but I like to keep my blood vitamin D levels at a good level, which is hard to do unless I use it everyday. K2 is a super vitamin that does magical things and I don't want to be without it again, like I was most of my life.
How much vitamin A makes your acne vanish or do you just eat the liver and not worry about the amount
For synthetic, do you take cynoplus or cynomel?
How much Vitamin A, D, K do you use daily? How much Vitamin E do you use weekly?
Which magical things regarding Vitamin K2 are you referring to?
My diet is low in fats so vitamin A gets absorbed better when I let it sit in my mouth after a meal. 45-60k iu per day on my gums keeps acne away.
Those or just the T3.
45-60K IU for A
5-10k IU for D ( depending on sunlight )
K2 is 5-10 mg per day
E is ~ 400MG mixed Tocopherols
If I ate more fat, I could get by with less of A,D, and K2
The ability to fly, and read minds mostly.
@Lee Simeon Makes my skin looks amazing, raises my testosterone dramatically, makes my teeth feel very hard, as well as my whole body structure.. things like that.
I've read people say things like this about Mk4. I've taken 20 mg on and off for over a year and perceived no difference. Tried a couple of different brands too What gives?
I dont know man. I've heard stories of people experiencing amazing things from various substances, then after I try them... nothing. I definitely know what you mean.
What about progesterone? androsterone? you take pregnenolone...?
What are you thoughts on the iron in liver?
Ah, so you think the supplement does more than the actual liver?
It's ratio to copper is good, so I doubt it's an issue. Oysters and other foods would in my opinion be much worse, if excess is of concern. I also donate blood every few months.
No, I have a high requirement, and eating 8oz of liver everyday would be much too high in other things.
Psyllium husk is great, and not used enough by Peat people who have any kind of digestive problem. It fixes IBS constipation nd diarrhea
Ya! I also have a study showing it's mostly resistant to fermentation etc.. like over 80% resistant. I'm out in about right now, but can post later when I'm home.
I personally get weird effects from K2, D and A.
K2 gives me constipation. Completely stuffs my bowel function up.
A destroys my libido. Completely stops any sexual drive.
Vitamin D also contributes to constipation.
I don't even use the fat solubles now.
Vitamin E used to give me insane libido, but now does little.
I've been PUFA restricting for four years, so just figured I didn't really need these vitamins much anymore.
Saying that, I have only used idea labs supplements (estroban, kuinone, retinil, tocovit, mitolipin and liquid format 'now foods' D3).
Maybe if I switched to different company fat soluable vitamins I might see beneficial effects.
I eat liver pretty much everyday (with plenty of gelatin to offset inflammatory aminos). I don't really do much dairy anymore, so surely I don't get much K2. Vitamin E, I figure, I don't need much anymore as my tissues are probably PUFA depleted. Vitamin A , I guess I get plenty due to my liver intake.
I just figured that the fat solubles are still important (what with them being needed by the liver to keep the bile healthy & functioning correctly, etc).
I am pretty envious of those who use K2 and perceive these testosterone boosting benefits.
I used to notice these benefits from K2, but not anymore.
As for the constipation, I guess K2 lowers gut serotonin (as does vitamin D), and what with idea labs being so freaking strong (and efficacious), you get effects that are so efficient (which comes with extreme effects representing the potential negative sides too).
Unless your PUFA intake has been at or below .5 grams per day for years, as well as low total fat, your not depleted. Even 1-2 grams per day with a moderate or high calorie intake will keep that small amount of PUFA accumulating. Sorry for the bad news.
Well. I think it would be in comparison to a guy that eats the standard diet. I don't think you can really discount four years of eating a low PUFA diet. To say that isn't significant is a bit dismissive.
Your version of eating is a bit on the extreme side.
Personally, I don't think many people out there can do what you do (props to you for doing it). For myself, I would rather eat 5g of PUFA per day, and have a little vitamin E on the side just to nullify things.
But yes you're quite right, because you emailed Ray about it didn't you?
So you find the supplement is fine to take without fat on the gums, it doesnt need fat to be absorbed?
Yup, I agree, just don't want people to think they are depleted, wondering why they still feel like crap etc..
Mine are in mct oil, which might help absorbancy.
Cool, which brand? Also a note on the psylium husk, how do you take it? With food?
I'm going to try and get a detailed answer about psyllium from Ray, because it seems other information he has given is different from what he has said to me @raypeatclips
With juice. Now foods for psyllium and health naturas fat solubles.
Thank you very much
Ha no worries, man. Just for the record, I'm not struggling. I was just talking aloud about my (recent) experiences with the fat soluble vitamins.
Anyway. I still need to work on cutting my PUFA further. It's so annoying how it gets stored and accumulates. But my main focuses these days are on other things (health wise). Detoxifying and trying to take my health to the next level. I've learnt that just brutally trying to keep revving my engine by throwing supplements at my body just doesn't do much these days. Doesn't matter how much sugar is in the tank or how low my dietary fat intake is (alongside the sugar intake). I've had to rethink, and just start approaching things from a different angle. My temps are good. My cognition is good. I've advanced in many ways due to the improved metabolism, but I know there are things to improve now which metabolism doesn't seem to interact with.
Psyllium Husk poorly fermented
The active fraction of psyllium seed husk. - PubMed - NCBI
Thanks. How much K2 per day? I never noticed anything from taking it, except maybe less knee clicking.
5 -10 mg per day, letting it sit on my gums, tongue, etc.. after a meal.
I took ~ 20mg everyday for about 1 year before I dropped to this current dose.
Let us know what he says please. I'll leave you to ask him as not to bother him with multiple similar messages.
How can you do that considering how much K2 you take? Perhaps pregnenologe via primarily progesterone conversion curbs your libido. With even as little as 2 drops of Kuinone a day I become a 17-year old boy uncapable of thinking anything else besides skirts... So I guess you have sex more often but without ejaculating? Do you find that satistsfing? Do you notice a difference if you ejaculate more often? Is it worth?
Wonderful info, thanks! So are you getting all of your protein from skim milk (mostly), gelatin and liver? How many grams of protein do you consume on training days?
I wonder if it's really an absolute number or rather a ratio. When you eat 2500 calories a day, 0.5g is 0.18% of calories, but when you eat 3500, it's 0.11% of calories (might seem like miniscule difference but it's actually a pretty big difference when you're dealing with numbers this small). And if it's NOT ratio but all about the ABSOLUTE amount, would you be better off minimizing physical movement so you can eat less and thus eat less pufa?
I also wonder how he got the .5 number. The only way you'd know that "depletes" you, is when you burn >0.5g of pufa day, and I haven't been able to find any study how much pufa humans burn.
I think one way of knowing whether you burn through your PUFA or not is weight loss. If it is true that stored fat is predominantly unsaturated, loosing weight in my view is a clear indication that you burn PUFA as well. That's why I doubt this absolute number of 0.5 grams. Muscles burn fat at rest. Someone who eats 3500 kcals a day, but 10 grams (90 kcals) of fat only, surely burns those (no matter if saturated or unsaturated) in the course of a day, especially if this person is physically active as well. Also there are a lot of reports in this forum from members losing body fat during very low fat dieting. Therefore, in my view the absolute amount of total fat in the diet also determines if one is able to burn more PUFA than ingested.
That is so annyoing that PUFA accumulates so easily no matter how much u restrict it. Eating under 0.5g is imposible, even you eat 1.5g with ur extremely low fat diet. Why is it mentioned so often then that your fat intake reflects to your tissue, for example eating 80% SAFA. Is it all pointless then?
Sex basically everyday, but self control. I'm known for my self control. Its not as satisfying as an orgasim, but its enough after you get use to it, for me anyways. Its worth it to me and the negatives I personally believe to come from constantly making your body lose and and to constantly produce such immensely complex genetic material is taxing and life draining. But I reserve the right to be wrong and change my mind. My energy, strength, and focus are much greater when I dont ejaculate. Thats my experience.
Yes, and same amount everyday, ~ 183 grams.
I think he was basing it on an average person. He mentioned low total fat too, probably because if too much saturated is eaten, your body will burn it and store the PUFA, rather than burn it all. I think eating under .6% ( of needed ) calories from PUFA in the long run would deplete someone.
If you need 2500 cals to maintain your weight then you would probably need to eat about 1.3 grams of PUFA ( at the very most per day indefinitely ) and adjust as needed based on needed calories. So yes I think someone with a higher metabolic rate could get away with more PUFA. Easy exercise ( like non stressful walking ) would be helpful by increasing caloric needs, allowing more PUFA to be injested, and subsequently burned off. I base this hypothesis on rat studies showing eating under .6% of needed calories from PUFA makes the body start to make mead acid, which is a sign of "essential fatty acid deficiency ". @TwiNN @Dobbler
Its probably impossible to deplete PUFA without using refined foods and supplements.
Body fat stores will reflect the fat ratio you eat, ( all fats and foods from nature contain some PUFA)
Most people gain fat as they age, which means caloric surplus, which means PUFA accumulating with age.....
My take for the typical human, is avoid bad oils, find a good vitamin E supplement, and eat nutritious foods.
Yeah, I think that you're always burning fat, but the less fat you eat, the more carbs you will burn and the less fat you will burn. Also if you eat 50 grams of PUFA a day on maintenance calories, you will for example burn 40 grams of pufa and retain 10. If you eat 2 grams of pufa, you might only burn 1 gram and retain 1. There will always be some burned and some retained I think, but to say that ALL pufa accumulates is obviously nonsense. If you've eaten for example 10g of PUFA a day from age 0-20 (which, for an average person is very low pufa), you have eaten about 73 kg or 160 lbs of pufa throughout your life. I weigh 165 lbs, I don't think my body exists out of 95% PUFA lol. So obviously you burn pufa, the question is how much
Yeah makes sense. It may just be helpful to have a very low bodyfat %, that way you cant possibly have a lot of pufa stored
I did a fair bit of research on this, and came up with, on the safe side, 0.7g of PUFA would put me into the deficiency zone IE where Mead Acid suddenly skyrockets. I think I saved all my info in a file somewhere and I can try and dig it up. I think going as high as 1g per day would probably still achieve this.
It's important to realize that different PUFA's have different effects on Mead Acid production. AA is 3 times more potent that LA at preventing Mead Acid production. So if the only PUFA you had in your diet was LA then you may be "deficient" at 1g of PUFA or even 1% of total calories (an often cited number) whereas if you had purely arachidonic acid, you would need to get as low as 0.3g per day. You can consume even more omega 3 and be in the deficient state. I don't remember the percentage difference compared to LA but as an example, if you were able to be in a deficient state with 1g of LA you may be able to go as high as 5g with fish oil and remain in the deficient state. Now, obviously people eat a mix of fats (generally), but my point is the number can change. If you eat oysters, which is higher in omega 3 PUFA, you may be able to get away with a bit more PUFA that day and still remain in the deficiency zone, IE the zone where you're creating a lot of Mead Acid. If you consume a lot of liver you may need to consume less PUFA to remain deficient since liver is a good source of AA.
Anyway, I'll try to find my notes on this as the above numbers I cited are just examples (guesses) though I think the AA being 3 times more potent than LA is accurate.
I bet your right! Thats why Ray mentioned TOTAL fat intake would need to be low in addition to very low PUFA.
That would be great! Thanks for the info!
" It ( psyllium husk ) works for most people who have used it, but occasionally it can increase inflammation, so it’s good to be watchful. " ~ Ray Peat
Food Chem Toxicol. 1984 Jul;22(7):573-8.
Effect of Metamucil on tumour formation by 1,2-dimethylhydrazine dihydrochloride in mice. Toth B. The effect of the plant cellulose metamucil on the tumorigenicity of 1,2-dimethylhydrazine dihydrochloride (1,2-DMH) was studied in random-bred Swiss mice. Three groups of mice, which were 5, 6 and 6 weeks old at the beginning of the experiment, were given the following treatments: (1) metamucil (20%, w/w) in powdered diet for their lifespan; (2) 1,2-DMH, ten weekly subcutaneous injections at 20 mg/kg body weight; (3) combination of treatments given to groups 1 and 2.
The administration of metamucil enhanced the appearance of colon tumours induced by 1,2-DMH in males only. Metamucil had no statistically significant effect on the development of tumours elicited by 1,2-DMH at seven additional sites. It was expected that a high amount of dietary fibre would inhibit carcinogenesis in the large intestine. Instead, metamucil increased the incidence of colon tumours induced by 1,2-DMH, although only in males.
Proc Soc Exp Biol Med. 1986 Dec;183(3):299-310.
Relationship between dietary fiber and cancer: metabolic, physiologic, and
The relationships between fiber consumption and human cancer rates have been examined, together with an analysis of the effects of individual dietary fibers on the experimental induction of large bowel cancer. The human epidemiology indicates an inverse correlation between high fiber consumption and lower colon cancer rates. Cereal fiber sources show the most consistent negative correlation.
However, human case-control studies in general fail to confirm any protectiveeffect due to dietary fiber. Case-control studies indicate that if any source of dietary fiber is possibly antineoplastic then it is probably vegetables. These results may mean that purified fibers alone do not inhibit tumor development, whereas it is likely that some other factors present in vegetables are antineoplastic. Experiments in laboratory animals, using chemical induction of large bowel cancer, have in general shown a protective effect with supplements of poorly fermentable fibers such as wheat bran or cellulose. In contrast, a number of fermentable fiber supplements including pectin, corn bran, oat bran, undegraded carageenan, agar, psyllium, guar gum, and alfalfa have been shown to enhance tumor development. Possible mechanisms by which fibers may inhibit colon
tumorigenesis include dilution and adsorption of any carcinogens and/or promoters contained within the intestinal lumen, the modulation of colonic microbialmetabolic activity, and biological modification of intestinal epithelial cells.
Dietary fibers not only bind carcinogens, bile acids, and other potential toxins but also essential nutrients, such as minerals, which can inhibit the
carcinogenic process. Fermentation of fibers within the large bowel results in the production of short chain fatty acids, which in vivo stimulate cell
proliferation, while butyrate appears to be antineoplastic in vitro. Evidence
suggests that if dietary fibers stimulate cell proliferation during the stage of
initiation, then this may lead to tumor enhancement. Fermentation also lowers luminal pH, which in turn modifies colonic microbial metabolic acidity, and is associated with increased epithelial cell proliferation and colon carcinogenesis. Because dietary fibers differ in their physiochemical properties it has been difficult to identify a single mechanism by which fibers modify colon carcinogenesis. Clearly, more metabolic and physiological studies are needed to fully define the mechanisms by which certain fibers inhibit while others enhance experimental colon carcinogenesis.
The bold is Ray's
I might just spend extra money and buy whole fruit from now on, just to be safe.
@tca300 are you able to find skim milk w/o added vitamins? Or does that not bother you?
I've been suspecting synthetic vitamin A bothers my gut. I can find a local 1% w/o anything added, but not skim.
I actually dont have any brands around where I live that dont have the vitamins added, so unfortunately I have to deal with it, but I personally haven't noticed and issues with the added vitamins.
Thanks @tca300 ! My diet is pretty similar except im not currently using any supps, except Whey post workout, and I don't do Apple cider vinegar. How do you use the ACV and why?
I take a spoonful during my meal of mushrooms for an added germicidal effect.
@tca300 Thank you for the tag! I'm still not sure about psyllium after that response either. Have you not found benefit from the carrot/bamboo/mushroom?
Ya I'm still confused. Im going to try just using mushrooms and maybe a carrot if I feel the need. I really like bamboo shoots but I'm hesitant after reading about the heavy pesticide content of the ones from china, which are the only ones I can find.
Did you see these two mails from Ray about mushrooms? Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
Do you have a quote for that? I beleive Peat himself tries to stay below 5 grams not .5 grams.
I dont feel like looking for the quote right now, but peat said 0.5g for depletion. Below 4 grams for general health
That's like cooking a meal for an hour and then throwing it in the dumpster before a single bite. It is not only unatural, it is unhealthy, and scientifically and biologically completely unfounded and unsupported. The whole process of sex primes the body for the ejaculation, the glands, the hormones, all get hyped up ready to fire. What do you think happens when you chronically abort it? You honestly think you're doing your body any favors? It's almost laughable if it wasn't so sad and destructive, being presented as a good advise.
Btw what does your partner think of these false alarms, doesn't he miss the laser beam, as you say. What does this kind of voodoo notion do to a relationship with the sex partner? I'm all for all kinds of sexual deviations but this doesn't even qualify as one as even the fetishes usually aim for gratification. Here it's all reversed and backward. Just really bad bad advice.
What's your obsession with wanting dudes to ejaculate lol
That is a sureal question (completely aside from the obvious gay hint..yeah good one). I hope you appreciate the other wordiness of it. Like it's a new norm or a lifestyle choice that should be respected. I honestly don't care who comes or not, just pointing out the ridiculousness of it being dispensed as somehow a healthy habit, where it's likely the opposite. When Peat gets his wikipedia page one day, it will be a shame for flat earth theories and aborted ejaculations to be listed as areas his followers tend to explore. But that is the direction in which it's going.
I'm writing a book, milk & date anti-aging diet :p. I think I could keep that up for about 2 days.
You better get used to writing your books on the toilet.
Why would his "followers" get a Wikipedia page?
Because without them Peat is just some old retired dude.
Personal email. He told me he stays below 1.5 most of the time.
Me - " How many grams of PUFA per day do you think is safe? I have heard that you recommend keeping them under 4 grams per day, but I haven't heard or read anything from you about how much your personally get or recommend. "
Ray - " I think I manage to keep mine below 1.5 most of the time; I have switched from regular coconut oil to fully hydrogenated. "
Me - " You have repeatedly mentioned PUFA accumulates with aging. My question is, if someone in their 20's started eating a diet with less than 2 grams of PUFA per day, and maintained that low PUFA intake permanently into old age, would PUFA still accumulate with age? Thank you!"
Ray - " I think some would still accumulate in the fat tissues, unless total fat intake was low, and PUFA intake was half a gram or less."
Are you refering to the liquid containing a major portion of the beneficial substances? If so, I drink it, and always have.
You referred to my partner as a he, Im not gay, and have two daughters.
You accused me of giving really bad bad advice, except I have never recommended anyone abstain like I do, I also said I could be wrong, and reserve the right to change my mind. I have experemented with ejaculating at various frequencies and what I have been doing for well over a year makes me feel at my best. Why am I not allowed to experiment with my own body, and do my own thing? FYI Ray has never recommend withholding from ejaculation to my knowledge, and I would never say that it has anything to do with him, its a personal decision.
Thanks for asking! My sex life is great! My wife has no complaints!
Holy smokes! I didn't realise dates were so low in PUFA! I bet its because they are a desert fruit, and the PUFA would oxidize like crazy!
I wonder what Ray would think about using vit e very regularly perhaps for life, rather than keep pufa intake so low. Below 4g is manageable but takes effort and awareness of food but can still eat enjoyable foods, certain fatty meats, ice cream, eggs. The stress of trying to keep pufa at .5g would be great.
That's for sure......
Its quite disgenuine to claim this here isnt advice. Thats what this thread is. Though i of course respect your right to dispense it, while i retain the right to counter it.
Regarding the gay thing, i thought you were a personal trainer but i could have mixed you up with someone else. No offence intended, gay or not.
Has anyone ever claimed or even suggested that vitamin E dosing + pufa is equivalent to no pufa?
I think he would if he was confident in current vitamin E products. He's very skeptical about how safe the current versions are. He mentioned that he wouldn't advise more than 50IU per day until more information is available on current products.
I'm not offended, I have no issues with peoples sexual preference, and I dont judge, nor do I care. I am a personal trainer. This thread was created by someone other than me, asking what I personally do, not what I recommend others do. Its not jusified to ask someone their own personal opinion, and then require them to prove why they are correct in their thinking. Im not advocating it, nor am I preaching, shouting from the roof tops, etc... I was asked about personal things, and I responded, and never said it would be good for anyone else to do, nor healthy for them.
Did he say that in a personal email to you? How come you don't post the email responses you get from him? You seem to have a lot of fascinating information.
I'm referring to his advice on grinding them rather than eating them as a salad . Ecstatichamster does it as well, it makes sense I have not tried it yet but looking forward to it.
I typically dont post his responses. I pay him for his answers, and haven't asked him if he would mind them open to the public, which I have already violated several times, including now.
" It’s important to use the natural form of vitamin E, either mixed tocopherols or d-alpha tocopherol; because of changed methods of extracting vitamin E, I think it’s generally best not to use over 50 i.u. per day, until there’s more research using the new products. "
How do you pay him? I mean on what basis - he asks or you volunteer?
He has never asked. Whenever the yearly gift to Ray is started, I add up all the emails he has replied to and pay him per email. Before that, I sent him money orders, as a gift.
Gift economy at its finest!
I agree: very inspirational.