Tingling Sensation - Please Help

Bluebell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
585
Hello good folks - I'm hoping to get some input on a problem I'm having.

It feels like my blood is very thick, especially in my legs. It probably sounds strange but it feels like a gravelly, dragging feeling through my blood vessels. I can't really link it with anything. Once it comes, it stays for days or weeks. The past few months I had been pretty clear of the clotting, but it came back again last night. It's a strong feeling that stops me sleeping, pretty uncomfortable. My legs (well, all over actually) are also tingling, and I have that all the time.

It feels very much like thick, sticky blood that is having difficulty getting through the vessels, and the circulation being cut off a bit, and that the blood has a tendency to clot (I get jumpy vessels periodically).

Does anyone have any ideas on what the root cause of this could be?

And anything I can do to fix it?

Many thanks
 

aguilaroja

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
850
Re: Please help with blood clotting in legs

Bluebell said:
Hello good folks - I'm hoping to get some input on a problem I'm having.

It feels like my blood is very thick, especially in my legs.It's a strong feeling that stops me sleeping, pretty uncomfortable. My legs (well, all over actually) are also tingling, and I have that all the time.

It feels...the circulation being cut off a bit... (I get jumpy vessels periodically).

I wonder if sensation being described involves lower venous vascular tone, rather than "thick" blood. Depleted metabolism often reduces the effective contraction of the smooth muscle of the veins, needed for good flow. Different supports have helped different people I know, including vitamin E, topical Progest-E, thyroid, magnesium, aspirin, other factors.

Some of the discomfort, tingling, and interference with sleep fits the somewhat sloppy but established medical terminology of "restless leg syndrome". The "restless leg syndrome" among friends and acquaintances has mainly seemed like poor mineral retention (sodium, magnesium, potassium, calcium) due to low thyroid function, and has mainly responded to those measures.

In writing, Dr. Peat has raised the issues of bacterial overgrowth, and depleted neuro-steroids.

http://peatarian.com/peatexchanges#brux ... g_syndrome

Bruxism / Restless leg syndrome-I think it's caused by irritation and inflammation in the intestine, increasing serotonin. Starches and fibers support bacterial growth and can increase serotonin. Restless leg syndrome is another night-time reaction to bacterial overgrowth.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/mu ... osis.shtml

In old age the brain steroids fall to about 5% of their level in youth.  Pregnenolone and DHEA improve memory in old rats, and improve mood stability and mental clarity of old people.  Pregnenolone's action in improving the sense of being able to cope with challenges probably reflects a quieting and coordinating of the "sequencing" apparatus of the forebrain, which is the area most sensitive to energy deprivation.  This is the area that malfunctions in hyperactive and "dyslexic" children.  Weakening of the sequencing and sorting processes probably explains the common old-age inability to extract important sounds from environmental noise, creating a kind of "confusion deafness."  Insomnia, worry and "restless legs" at bedtime are problems for many old people, and I think they are variations of the basic energy-depletion problem.
 
OP
Bluebell

Bluebell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
585
Re: Please help with blood clotting in legs

Thank you so much aguilaroja! :-D It's a relief to get some input from someone else. I have been racking my brains for so long to try and fix it.

Something I didn't say: in my calf there is a buzzy/fizzy feeling, in an area of around an inch, which developed over the last 3 days. It buzzes on a rhythm a bit slower than my heartbeat, like something trying to be pushed through (or that's how it feels).

At the same time as the clotting feeling in my vessels, I have strong tingling and pins and needles feeling all over. This comes along with a stinging/burning feeling and feeling like my flesh is crawling. It is everywhere: arms, legs, back, front, scalp, face. These other sensations get worse when the clotting feeling gets worse.

Also I think the problem can be worse in the second half of my cycle, but of course hormones affect the whole body in so many ways.

That is very helpful to consider lower venous vascular tone, I hadn't thought of that. I wanted to check - does that include the collagen getting too floppy because it is actually breaking down - or is it only a muscular tone thing?

Vitamin E - just last night, I started rubbing 1000 IU of vitamin E in olive oil all over my legs before bed. Before that I did body brushing towards the heart. I have been walking daily. My diet is Peaty.

Topical Progest-E - I have not tried progesterone yet. I guess I am a little scared of messing with my cycle and was hoping to bring up levels through other means. But I am considering trying it.

Thyroid - was taking - see below.

Magnesium - I take a bit, but not a lot. Have occasional epsom salt baths too.

Aspirin - I take for pain, and sometimes just take it anyway.

Other factors - is there anything else you would suggest?

I am much less fit/toned than I used to be. Would using ankle weights and doing leg exercises to build up more musclely legs be a good idea?


Low minerals could be something I have - I have low minerals on a hair test (assuming that's a valid measurement).

So thyroid is the solution to that? THANK YOU for that gem of info! Is that all I need to do for mineral retention?

Recently I had stopped all supplements, because of a tummy bug 7 weeks ago. In fact, I had stopped thyroid months earlier (I take a natural over the counter one in high doses) because I was just cutting back on supplements for a while and slowly adding back what I thought I needed. Half of me wondered if I didn't need thyroid anymore. My hands are nice and warm (but it's summer!). I have not checked my temperature with a thermometer though.

The weird thing is, the day before the blood vessel feeling came, I had re-started thyroid at 5 capsules a day (from nothing the day before). But I can't imagine that re-starting thyroid capsules would bring on the clotting feeling? (or maybe the problem was coming anyway and the thyroid just didn't have time to act)?

A few other things changed - I took a bit of zinc and magnesium, had been taking B6 in the a.m., and one aspirin at night, & had been having a lot more hydrolized gelatin, had been having some vitamin C, had got a mild cold, and had come into the second half of my cycle. But I've done all these things before without the clotting feeling coming.

Because it's feeling bad now, I wonder if it could be a good time to test the theory that it is lower venous vascular tone caused by low metabolism. Would taking pregnenolone fix that and show fast results (I have some of the sublingual one)? Or trying the thyroid capsules again? Or ...?

Thanks again for your help, it is great to finally be able to discuss and try get to the bottom of this. I really want to fix it.

Any other input gratefully received. (wow! just read this and realized how long it is. Thanks for reading :) )
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,370
Re: Please help with blood clotting in legs

My father has that (legs like an old lady as well as itchy) and it started after cortisone injections. It's been almost a decade.
 

aguilaroja

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
850
Re: Please help with blood clotting in legs

Bluebell said:
I have strong tingling and pins and needles feeling all over. This comes along with a stinging/burning feeling and feeling like my flesh is crawling. It is everywhere: arms, legs, back, front, scalp, face.....
Low minerals could be something I have - I have low minerals on a hair test (assuming that's a valid measurement).

So thyroid is the solution to that? THANK YOU for that gem of info! Is that all I need to do for mineral retention?

The weird thing is, the day before the blood vessel feeling came, I had re-started thyroid at 5 capsules a day (from nothing the day before). But I can't imagine that re-starting thyroid capsules would bring on the clotting feeling? (or maybe the problem was coming anyway and the thyroid just didn't have time to act)?

A few other things changed - I took a bit of zinc and magnesium, had been taking B6 in the a.m., and one aspirin at night, & had been having a lot more hydrolized gelatin, had been having some vitamin C, had got a mild cold, and had come into the second half of my cycle. But I've done all these things before without the clotting feeling coming....

Thanks for the further perspective. I would suggest stopping the thyroid capsules immediately, since the timing coincides with the recent difficulties. I am only saying that the reports suggests the possibility.

It could be that augmenting thyroid function is helpful in your case. it could be that the natural/glandular capsules are good products. But the timing is concerning. Even careful products have either ingredients that individuals react to or batches that are problematic.

If the tingling gets worse, if the leg problems are worse with exertion, if you have chest pain or shortness of breath, if there is loss of feeling or strength in the limbs, please get medical attention promptly. Widespread changes in sensation can be related to pressing situations.

If stopping the thyroid capsules makes no difference, you might temporarily stop the Zn, Mg, aspirin, and B6, especially if any of these are different brands from before. I suggest giving priority to stopping the B6-I have had several problems with different brands apparently due to excipients with B6, when I was investigating B6 properties years before studying Dr. Peat. From those I know, I think generally think the P5P form of B6 works more comfortably and reliably.
 
OP
Bluebell

Bluebell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
585
Re: Please help with blood clotting in legs

Yes, I stopped all supplements as soon as the condition got worse. B6 I was taking the P5P form.

The tingling has been going on for years. I really want to know the root cause of it so I can fix it - it's been a long time and I still do not know.

Aguilaroja thanks so much for suggesting restless leg syndrome - I am looking into that now.

If any one else recognizes my symptoms or has any suggestions, please say - thank you!
 

Peata

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
3,402
I haven't read through all the replies, but I had something like this years ago - "restless legs" and also weakness in limbs with a weird head sensation at times that felt like I could fall over. A blood test showed potassium was low. I supplemented and the problem went away.

At the time I had a very poor diet and also had chronic diarrhea from a medication. For example, I would eat a piece of toast with peanut butter for breakfast, tater tots and ketchup for lunch, drink a lot of beer, etc. So it's no surprise between the sparse but crappy diet and diarrhea that I was deficient in at least something.

But there have also been a couple other times when I had similar symptoms and my diet was better, and supplementing with potassium seemed to help then too. One of those times was when I first when very low carb. I guess it was the "low carb flu" but the symptoms reminded me of how I'd felt years before when I wasn't getting enough nutrition.

So you might look into your minerals if you haven't already. Do you use cronometer? You can make sure you're getting the other nutrients as well. HTH.
 
OP
Bluebell

Bluebell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
585
Peata thanks a lot for your reply, it really helps just to talk about this with someone.

I actually read your reply in another thread and tried some potassium added to my orange juice, last night.

I didn't notice a lot of difference, but perhaps it takes a while of taking it.

I am getting a lot of nutrients in - I am eating Peaty and also eating a lot of calories. I did use cronometer for a while, it's a hassle but pretty cool.

I was getting pretty much all the nutrients except E and Magnesium which I supplemented.

Still I might not be absorbing my minerals. I had a hair test where they were all low. Perhaps my thyroid is causing malabsorption of minerals.

I am also thinking, perhaps it is high estrogen causing the tingling. Thinking I should try progest-e.

When I read about all the issues that the Peat approach solves (like high estrogen, high prolactin, low thyroid etc), it seems they are all interlinked and any one of them could be causing the tingling.

My body is definitely telling me something is off. I would be overjoyed if I could get rid of this tingling. It really really bugs me.
 

Peata

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
3,402
I also think high estrogen could definitely be another cause. Thyroid too. It's all kind of intermingled. Malabsorption has been a problem for me too at times, particularly when digestion is upset and I'm having diarrhea. I supplement Bs because I don't think I absorb enough otherwise.
 
OP
Bluebell

Bluebell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
585
Thanks. I keep reading things and think aha, that must be the cause. High estrogen causes hypoxia which could definitely cause tingling, it also causes thick blood and blood clots. Right now there is tingling strongly in my arms, hands, legs, face, back, neck ... my body is shouting at me that something is off.

Then I have also been thinking that my dopamine is low, as RLS is related to low dopamine.

And there is the dilemma: do I add everything at once (different Bs, thyroid, progest-e, dopamine increasers etc), or do I add them one by one to check if they work. I try to add one by one but I am impatient.

I have restarted raw carrot daily (just chewing on the carrot sticks), and seemed to feel good for a few hours afterwards.
 

Peata

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
3,402
Do you have Progest E you can start using?

I know, it all gets confusing on what to take, how much, when, etc. High estrogen and prolactin seem to go hand in hand, and I read that contributes to low dopamine. I don't know, but I think getting your thyroid optimized and progesterone up could help the condition. How is your protein intake? 80+ g. per day is what's recommended. Helps the body detox estrogen. You also need protein for tyrosine, which helps make dopamine (I hope I stated that right) Come to think of it, I read that tyrosine is also important for making thyroid hormone. The progesterone will increase the dopamine too (lowering prolactin and estrogen). So it's all connected.
 

Peata

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
3,402
I eat a raw carrot everyday, but I love to use activated charcoal sometimes too. I try to have this away from meals or supplements. For example, take my nightly supplements and then wait at least an hour and I take a couple activated charcoal.
 
OP
Bluebell

Bluebell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
585
No, I don't have Progest-e, but I could order some and have it arrive pretty soon. I was a bit hesitant, but as long as it won't affect my fertility negatively, then I'm OK to take it. I mean, I can't upset my hormones permanently by trying out some progest-e, can I?

" High estrogen and prolactin seem to go hand in hand, and I read that contributes to low dopamine." That makes a lot of sense! From I what I can piece together, I agree with you that thyroid and progesterone could help. It seems to me that they seem to sit at the bottom of all these interlinked causes and could be the root.

My protein is OK, good I think. I should do cronometer again, but when I did it in the past I was getting over 80g. I drink quite a lot of milk, have cheese daily, 1 egg, and a small amount of meat daily. I was having 20g gelatin per day, but I stopped it in case it was causing tingling (I think I will start it again). I was thinking of adding 5g BCAA to a protein meal a la haidut for dopamine, but if I'm doing progesterone maybe I should test that first.

Maybe a good approach is: add back thyroid. try progest-e. add back gelatin. continue raw carrot. add back aspirin (to lower estrogen).

I have never tried bag breathing, and was thinking of giving it a go - perhaps it will help if the problem is hypoxia.

I haven't tried charcoal yet. I like the sound of it, if it's the same effects as carrot but more so.
 

aquaman

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Messages
1,297
It's a bit of a blur, but I remember RP talking about swelling of nerve fibres (or joints/muscles around the nerves) causing constriction or irritation. It's on one of the Radio interviews - perhaps this will jog someone's memory.

I think it related to edema or excess fluid leading to swelling which affected nerve function.

Anyone else remember this?
 

Peata

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
3,402
Also here's some info from Ray Peat that was on the Peatarian site regarding restless legs: I think it's caused by irritation and inflammation in the intestine, increasing serotonin. Starches and fibers support bacterial growth and can increase serotonin. Restless leg syndrome is another night-time reaction to bacterial overgrowth.. [/b

electrical sensations
: Several things associated with that include reflexes from intestinal inflammation, hypothyroidism, and a pantothenic acid deficiency.
 
OP
Bluebell

Bluebell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
585
aquaman said:
It's a bit of a blur, but I remember RP talking about swelling of nerve fibres (or joints/muscles around the nerves) causing constriction or irritation. It's on one of the Radio interviews - perhaps this will jog someone's memory.

I think it related to edema or excess fluid leading to swelling which affected nerve function.

Anyone else remember this?

Yes, now you mention it ...

Is it this one - http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/water.shtml

"Some of the nerve problems associated with hypothyroidism (e.g., carpal tunnel syndrome and "foot drop") are blamed on compression of the nerves, from swelling of surrounding tissues, but the evidence is clear that hypothyroidism causes swelling in the nerve cells themselves. For example, in hypothyroidism, nerves are slow to respond to stimulation, and their conduction of the impulse is slow. These changes are the same as those produced by hyper-hydration caused by other means. Hypothyroid nerves are easily fatigued, and fatigued nerves take up a large amount of water. Swelling of the spinal cord is probably responsible for the "spinal stenosis" commonly seen in domestic animals and people; the mobility of intracellular water molecules is distinctly increased in patients with compression of the spinal cord (Tsuchiya, et al., 2003; Ries, et al., 2001)."

That supports the idea that nerve problems like tingling might be solved by taking thyroid. I hope so!
 
OP
Bluebell

Bluebell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
585
Peata said:
Also here's some info from Ray Peat that was on the Peatarian site regarding restless legs: I think it's caused by irritation and inflammation in the intestine, increasing serotonin. Starches and fibers support bacterial growth and can increase serotonin. Restless leg syndrome is another night-time reaction to bacterial overgrowth.. [/b

electrical sensations
: Several things associated with that include reflexes from intestinal inflammation, hypothyroidism, and a pantothenic acid deficiency.


Thanks a lot - I will add a pantothenic acid trial to the things I try.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,370
You can test for cortisol and estrogens levels, but besides that, Ray Peat indeed has talked about estrogen and dense blood; he also said that vitamin E can be seen as causing thin blood just for its estrogen antagonizing action. So definitely stock up on Progest-E and keep blood sugar steady, that would be my advice in the Peat context.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom