Tianeptine Substitutes?

Discussion in 'Tianeptine' started by Terma, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. Terma

    Terma Member

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    This might be subjective: has anyone who has used tia ever found a non-opioid substance that comes close?

    I had to stop tianeptine completely. It's relatively fantastic but with my personal physiology it wasn't sustainable. I can only use it twice a week and it's not enough for a crutch and it sits there on the shelf and laughs at me.

    At present the best and most potent things I use are 5a-DHP and PRL-8-53. I can reach maybe 70% of tianeptine benefits with them, but have to use them alternate days or every 3 days. I use moderate caffeine, but I get side effects from prolonged caffeine use, which I'm reeling from this week. Amino acids sometimes help quite a bit but inconsistently. Daily I take tyrosine (sometimes with BCAA), lysine, transdermal magnesium, riboflavin, RDA iodine, some taurine with every meal, A/D/K/E, some others.

    Things I have already tried (some help but not enough):
    * Adamantane (not bad at all, but not sustainable enough either)
    * Pregnenolone/progesterone/dhea/androsterone
    * Piracetam/aniracetam/oxaloridiculoracetam
    * metergoline/ritanserin/lisuride
    * cyproheptadine/benadryl (ugh)
    * phenibut/benzos
    * aspirin
    * thyroid products (very little effect)
    * NAC/ALA/coq10/methylene blue
    * phospholipids
    * other nootropics not worth mentioning
    * all vitamins and minerals
    * every diet permutation in the world
    * every permutation of the above substances

    Things I would like to try (and know how they compare) but can't:
    * NSI-189
    * ketamine
     
  2. OP
    Terma

    Terma Member

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    I know this is a tall order, so maybe this will give a better idea: today I woke up feeling like hell, something I ate last night wrecked my gut and had that endotoxin-like body flareup and felt like no sleep despite sleep.

    So in desperation I chugged this within a few hours:
    * 5a-DHP (15 drop)
    * adamantane (10 drop)
    * caffeine (300mg)
    * aspirin (300mg)
    * methylene blue (1mg)
    * magnesium (?)
    * benfothiamine (300mg), riboflavin (?)
    * bcaa/tyrosine/phenylanaline
    * tons of carbs
    * (no PRL, doesn't mix with adamantane or gut problems)

    All this combined gave maybe 75% of what tianeptine could do on a day like this.

    The Adamantane does have somewhat a tianeptine feel to it - I'd say it's the closest, 5a-DHP aside - but more disassociative and hazy (less dopaminergic?), and several hours in it sometimes backfires.
     
  3. jyb

    jyb Member

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    What side effects do you get?
     
  4. OP
    Terma

    Terma Member

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    Abnormally bad withdrawal, even from low doses and short courses, even from sulphate (at first I tolerated sulphate form better but it got progressively worse). Awake for days on end and endless restless legs. I haven't heard many people get it this bad, it's a me thing. I know there's "no free lunch", but this one is disproportionately cruel.
     
  5. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    I have free lunch with tianeptine btw :):
     
  6. OP
    Terma

    Terma Member

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    Right. **** me. If this is how the universe balances out, maybe I'll have better luck with heroin
     
  7. OP
    Terma

    Terma Member

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    Has anyone tried Bromantane? How does it compare with Tianeptine (specifically this)? Forgot that one...
     
  8. Lurker

    Lurker Member

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    Have you tried activated charcoal? That's my first response to gut/anger problems.

    I'm sorry if I missed it but I didn't see what effects you were getting from the tianeptine. I haven't used it myself. I've tried a few nootropics and the aniracitam seem to have some mental sharpening and anxiolytic properties. I like the noopept also (developed to help Russians from the mental deterioration of alcohol). From what I understand they are anticholinergic which seems to be generally in line with Peat thinking. Overall, they weren't something I wanted to do long term. I've tended to lean more toward "natural" substances.

    You mentioned taurine with meals. I thought it worked better by itself. I usually take it at bedtime.
     
  9. OP
    Terma

    Terma Member

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    Haven't warmed up to charcoal. Good reminder though. I'm doing glutinous rice.

    Tianeptine did everything: near perfect gut, better temps and extremities, dopamine and drive, zero anxiety, immunity to stress, slight dumbening while taking it that has to be NMDA antagonism or an anticholinergic effect, more physical energy and endurance, less body backlash from bad foods and activity, better tolerance to other health problems. Negatives (while taking): less deep sleep, didn't help socialization.

    I did the racetams and noopept. For me they don't come close. Taurine either, even 10g in single dose barely noticeable.
     
  10. OP
    Terma

    Terma Member

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    For the record I actually for the first time in years been making headway on my gut in the last two weeks, without Tia.

    Surprisingly Adamantane is a strong contributor. Don't know what it's doing (anticholinergic, 5-HT3, etc.), and I don't like all its effects, but it clearly works for this. So I keep trying to make it work.

    I started adding glutinous rice and stools have improved.

    Not perfect, but significant. I may try adding fresh ground black pepper next, since it has opioid loperamide-like effects (Pharmacological basis for the medicinal use of black pepper and piperine in gastrointestinal disorders. - PubMed - NCBI), and it helped in the past.
     
  11. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Your list is very long yet doesn't have cascara. You might be missing out. For gut and sleep, cascara comes to mind.
     
  12. OP
    Terma

    Terma Member

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    Thanks but I thought cascara was a laxative, no? I'm on the loose stools/diarrhea side.
     
  13. jyb

    jyb Member

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    I take it in small quantities that don't affect stools. It's possible it still speeds up transit, but I don't realise it and that's not why I take it. I don't know how useful it would be in your situation.
     
  14. OP
    Terma

    Terma Member

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    Maybe, never crossed my mind. I have paradoxical reactions frequently so everything devolves into trial and error. Guess that's almost the reverse of black pepper (stimulates transit in low dose and helps diarrhea in high dose).
     
  15. passivity

    passivity Member

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    Maybe memantine or seleginile (not that peaty though,
    "Selegiline is partly metabolized to levomethamphetamine, one of the two enantiomers of methamphetamine, in vivo.[24] A characteristic metabolic pattern was noted, exemplified by a ratio of L-methamphetamine to L-amphetamine of about 2.8.[25] These stereoisomers are moderately less psychoactive and have lower abuse potential compared to their D-isomers.[26][27]

    This metabolic pathway may also cause persons taking selegiline to test positive for amphetamine and or methamphetamine on drug screening tests.")

    edit:

    Selegiline Experiences
     
  16. Dayman

    Dayman Member

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  17. OP
    Terma

    Terma Member

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    Thanks I have not tried and forgot about selegiline. Don't know selank. I'm curious if you guys have any personal experiences in comparing them with Tianeptine?
     
  18. passivity

    passivity Member

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    I haven't tried them myself, but check this thread:

    Low Dose Dextromethorphan As An Alternative To SSRI's?
     
  19. BigYellowLemon

    BigYellowLemon Member

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    @passivity

    I wrote a super long reply about the way NMDA antagonists can help reset the sensation of pleasure, but then I realized you weren't even tagging me.

    I thought I'd say something though: memantine is not something to play with.

    It is a D2 agonist that lasts forever in your system. It can really **** things up.

    I had ticks for months after my idiotic dose escalation. It was never really that bad it was still present.

    I feel like I have been changed by what I did with memantine.

    Especially because my brain is still developing somewhat, I think I might have some weird dopamine hypersensitivity now. That's what happens in "adolescent" rats when they are exposed to dopaminergic drugs.
     
  20. OP
    Terma

    Terma Member

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    Yeah skipping memantine, no access anyhow. I know about it and estimated it's unlikely to be what I need and adamantane was close enough (I had that one down, except the surprise gut effects). I planned to get bromantane instead.

    Ah selank = semax, put that off due to shipping issues et al.
     
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