Thyroid Supplementation - Is It Worth It?

[answersfound]

post 115824

post 115756

post 115751 For those who supplement with thyroid or think that it's a good idea:

How do you justify supplementing thyroid when it results in atrophy of the thyroid gland?
How is it worth it when you are basically trading your thyroid-producing gland for being enslaved to a supplement for the rest of your life?

Crap lol is this true?

Yea, it's true. Stop all thyroid supplementation ASAP.

That is sarcasm right?

Yes.

 

[Giraffe]

post 115772 I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, when reading Ray Peat's book on Progesterone, I recall him saying that thyroid will atrophy when thyroid is supplemented.

Maybe you misunderstood this one:

If a person has an enlarged thyroid gland, progesterone promotes secretion and unloading of the stored "colloid," and can bring on a temporary hyperthyroid state. A thyroid supplement should be used to shrink the goiter before progesterone is given. Normal amounts of progesterone facilitate thyroid secretion, while a deficiency, with unopposed estrogen, causes the thyroid to enlarge.

 

[tara]

IIUC Broda Barnes, according to a quote in a Broda Barnes thread, reckoned that as long as you don't supplement enough to bring base temperature up above 98.2 F (waking, 10 mins to stabilise thermometer), the thyroid gland will not reduce output of thyroid hormones. If you try to push it higher than that with more supplemantation it is likely to.

 

[Greg says]

Josh Rubin says...

Did you know that taking thyroid medication when you don't need it will actually suppress the pituitary's signals to the thyroid, thus giving you the symptoms of and perpetuating the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

HYPOTHYROIDISM - Why isn't my medication working
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyYnhTetsvg

 

[ecstatichamster]

of course the big debate is, DO YOU REALLY NEED IT?

My temps are 97ish or high 96s and my HR is 50 when I wake up. Do I need it? My T3 and T4 labs look okay, TSH around 3.

The doc says I don't need it.

 

[EndAllDisease]

post 115843 Maybe you misunderstood this one:

Ray Peat wrote:
If a person has an enlarged thyroid gland, progesterone promotes secretion and unloading of the stored "colloid," and can bring on a temporary hyperthyroid state. A thyroid supplement should be used to shrink the goiter before progesterone is given. Normal amounts of progesterone facilitate thyroid secretion, while a deficiency, with unopposed estrogen, causes the thyroid to enlarge.

Indeed that is the quote I was referring to. Thank you for digging that one up.

In my experience taking testosterone, my gonads underwent a definite downsizing, and it's my understanding that because ample amounts of testosterone were present in my bloodstream, by some signaling mechanism, the gonads were instructed to not produce anymore, and thus the lack of use or need caused the atrophy. It seems logical to me to assume the same thing would apply to Thyroid.

The quote from Peat above suggests to me that the enlarged thyroid would shrink when supplemental thyroid is taken. Am I wrong?

 

[EndAllDisease]

post 115880 IIUC Broda Barnes, according to a quote in a Broda Barnes thread, reckoned that as long as you don't supplement enough to bring base temperature up above 98.2 F (waking, 10 mins to stabilise thermometer), the thyroid gland will not reduce output of thyroid hormones. If you try to push it higher than that with more supplemantation it is likely to.

Noted! Thank you. When you say "in a Broda Barnes thread", does that mean Broda Barnes herself (himself?) wrote that?

 

[HDD]

post 116017

post 115880 IIUC Broda Barnes, according to a quote in a Broda Barnes thread, reckoned that as long as you don't supplement enough to bring base temperature up above 98.2 F (waking, 10 mins to stabilise thermometer), the thyroid gland will not reduce output of thyroid hormones. If you try to push it higher than that with more supplemantation it is likely to.

Noted! Thank you. When you say "in a Broda Barnes thread", does that mean Broda Barnes herself (himself?) wrote that?

From "Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness" by Broda Barnes, M.D.

"During treatment, it should not exceed the upper limit of normal---98.2---unless a cold, sore throat, or other infection is present. The thyroid gland will not decrease its normal function unless the basal temperature is maintained for some time above the upper limit of normal."

 

[mayweatherking]

post 115952 Josh Rubin says...

Did you know that taking thyroid medication when you don't need it will actually suppress the pituitary's signals to the thyroid, thus giving you the symptoms of and perpetuating the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

HYPOTHYROIDISM - Why isn't my medication working
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyYnhTetsvg

Aren't you saying that it will lower your TSH? It's lowering TSH because you have enough thyroid circulating in your body. Why would that perpetuate hypothyroidism if you have enough thyroid floating in your body? That doesn't make sense.. unless you are talking about something else?

Peat says the TSH should be low.

 

[Agent207]

Aren't you saying that it will lower your TSH? It's lowering TSH because you have enough thyroid circulating in your body. Why would that perpetuate hypothyroidism if you have enough thyroid floating in your body? That doesn't make sense.. unless you are talking about something else?

Peat says the TSH should be low.

The same way LH should be low and we should use test to lower LH?

 

[mayweatherking]

post 116028

Aren't you saying that it will lower your TSH? It's lowering TSH because you have enough thyroid circulating in your body. Why would that perpetuate hypothyroidism if you have enough thyroid floating in your body? That doesn't make sense.. unless you are talking about something else?

Peat says the TSH should be low.

The same way LH should be low and we should use test to lower LH?

I think test would be going up if you have a good thyroid and your diet straight... I think it's vitamin A, thyroid, and cholesterol to get that up?

 

[answersfound]

post 115952 Josh Rubin says...

Did you know that taking thyroid medication when you don't need it will actually suppress the pituitary's signals to the thyroid, thus giving you the symptoms of and perpetuating the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

HYPOTHYROIDISM - Why isn't my medication working
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyYnhTetsvg

I'd be willing to bet A LOT of money that Josh takes Thyroid Glandular himself, in addition to some other hormonal supplements he is advising against. He doesn't want to deal with helping people use Thyroid Glandular or other supplements so he just tells people not to take it and stick with food.

 

[Dagwood]

The way I see it, taking thyroid assists your body in becoming healthier, thereby helping your thyroid to function on its own, kinda like how it's easier to hike up a mountain without wearing a super heavy bag.

Am I wrong?

 

[Giraffe]

post 116027

post 115952 Josh Rubin says...

Did you know that taking thyroid medication when you don't need it will actually suppress the pituitary's signals to the thyroid, thus giving you the symptoms of and perpetuating the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

HYPOTHYROIDISM - Why isn't my medication working
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyYnhTetsvg

Aren't you saying that it will lower your TSH? It's lowering TSH because you have enough thyroid circulating in your body. Why would that perpetuate hypothyroidism if you have enough thyroid floating in your body? That doesn't make sense.. unless you are talking about something else?

Peat says the TSH should be low.

Josh Rubin says, "It only works if you have a strong nutritional foundation." Make sure your body gets what it needs to convert T4 to T3, and address obstacles like too much estrogen. Then it might turn out that you don't need thyroid meds at all.

 

[mayweatherking]

post 116082

post 116027

post 115952 Josh Rubin says...

Did you know that taking thyroid medication when you don't need it will actually suppress the pituitary's signals to the thyroid, thus giving you the symptoms of and perpetuating the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

HYPOTHYROIDISM - Why isn't my medication working
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyYnhTetsvg

Aren't you saying that it will lower your TSH? It's lowering TSH because you have enough thyroid circulating in your body. Why would that perpetuate hypothyroidism if you have enough thyroid floating in your body? That doesn't make sense.. unless you are talking about something else?

Peat says the TSH should be low.

Josh Rubin says, "It only works if you have a strong nutritional foundation." Make sure your body gets what it needs to convert T4 to T3, and address obstacles like too much estrogen. Then it might turn out that you don't need thyroid meds at all.

I agree with that.. except the dude comes off as a scam artist. I tried to look into what a good nutritional foundation was, only to find it costs like 60 or 90 dollars or something to buy his book on nutrition. Or any other information he has costs money as well. Who knows if what he is saying is even accurate. He seems like he is just talking off peat's principles, so I don't see how he should take all of his information, then basically say thyroid hormone is not good when activates it. It's like.. what does he know? He gets all his info from peat, then goes off on a tangent about how thyroid hormone is not needed most of the time, when he doesn't even pull the info himself, then charges people 100 dollars just to find what he suggests.

 

[answersfound]

post 116142

post 116082

post 116027

post 115952 Josh Rubin says...

Did you know that taking thyroid medication when you don't need it will actually suppress the pituitary's signals to the thyroid, thus giving you the symptoms of and perpetuating the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

HYPOTHYROIDISM - Why isn't my medication working
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyYnhTetsvg

Aren't you saying that it will lower your TSH? It's lowering TSH because you have enough thyroid circulating in your body. Why would that perpetuate hypothyroidism if you have enough thyroid floating in your body? That doesn't make sense.. unless you are talking about something else?

Peat says the TSH should be low.

Josh Rubin says, "It only works if you have a strong nutritional foundation." Make sure your body gets what it needs to convert T4 to T3, and address obstacles like too much estrogen. Then it might turn out that you don't need thyroid meds at all.

I agree with that.. except the dude comes off as a scam artist. I tried to look into what a good nutritional foundation was, only to find it costs like 60 or 90 dollars or something to buy his book on nutrition. Or any other information he has costs money as well. Who knows if what he is saying is even accurate. He seems like he is just talking off peat's principles, so I don't see how he should take all of his information, then basically say thyroid hormone is not good when activates it. It's like.. what does he know? He gets all his info from peat, then goes off on a tangent about how thyroid hormone is not needed most of the time, when he doesn't even pull the info himself, then charges people 100 dollars just to find what he suggests.

Yea he says, "I'm not a doctor." Well if you're not a doctor then don't advise people against it. There are plenty of people I see in his program on the Facebook page that are seeing no to minimal improvements and they think that they can just fix everything with food.

Danny Roddy still takes thyroid. He is only 30, and has long adressed any estrogen, prolactin, etc.

 

[Makrosky]

when reading Ray Peat's book on Progesterone, I recall him saying that thyroid will atrophy when thyroid is supplemented. It makes sense to me because giving your body thyroid would eliminate the need for the body to produce it, and thus atrophy would result from non-use.

I have the book in PDF, i've searched for "thyroid" and I haven't found anything remotely similar to that.

 

[Makrosky]

post 115751 slaved

post 115751 For those who supplement with thyroid or think that it's a good idea:

How do you justify supplementing thyroid when it results in atrophy of the thyroid gland?
How is it worth it when you are basically trading your thyroid-producing gland for being enslaved to a supplement for the rest of your life?

I think if you have health problems that correlate with hypo symptoms and those hasn't responded to other treatments/diets; and using thyroid hormones works good for you, then it's better to be "enslaved" to a thyroid supplement for the rest of your life that live plagued with a bad health. You're going to be slaved anyway to... a car ? a job? food? friends? we're slaves as long as we have a body.

 

[Daimyo]

post 115794
Thats answers your own question. It takes 2 to 3 days for the gland to resume full activity. It doesn't atrophy it.

Just saying that it might take a bit longer. Especially if you take NDT or something with T3. If your TSH is suppresed, it will take some time for it to go up after stopping supplementation and send signal to your thyroid. If someone is dosing based on TSH, and his/her TSH is about 0.5, it will take less time.

 

[answersfound]

post 116149

post 115751 slaved

post 115751 For those who supplement with thyroid or think that it's a good idea:

How do you justify supplementing thyroid when it results in atrophy of the thyroid gland?
How is it worth it when you are basically trading your thyroid-producing gland for being enslaved to a supplement for the rest of your life?

I think if you have health problems that correlate with hypo symptoms and those hasn't responded to other treatments/diets; and using thyroid hormones works good for you, then it's better to be "enslaved" to a thyroid supplement for the rest of your life that live plagued with a bad health. You're going to be slaved anyway to... a car ? a job? food? friends? we're slaves as long as we have a body.

Exactly. He hasn't posted any alternative solutions. Caffeine? He's here to stir up drama and get a reaction.

Some people would end up jumping off a bridge without thyroid hormone, and some probably have. Until you've walked in someone else's shoes, do everyone a favor and stop commenting on people's decisions to improve their health, especially if that is what they believe their body needs.