Thyroid Problems? (Advice & Help Highly Appriciated)

[PattySwe]

Hello, I'm a 30 year old male from Sweden, and I have a couple of questions.
I suspect I have some kind of thyroid issue, here are the symptoms I currently have and have had for the last 3 years.

(Edit: Sorry for any misspellings, English is not my first language)

Symptoms
Heat sensitive (Red face daily, warm skin)
Fast Heartrate
Dry eyes, Dry scalp, Dry penis glans, dry throat
Heart palpitations
Itchy feet or sometimes shins
Cold feet/hands
Back/Lower back pain
Sleep Issues(Hard to fall asleep, and wake up after just a couple of hours sleep, but even though I slept few hours, i feel kinda up/speedy, worried during the day)
I feel anxious, worry alot for no reasons at all.


I've been at several doctors and tried everything you can think of, I even visited 3 different skindoctors that said it was NOT rosacea, I tried beta blockers, anti depressants (Doctors said it was all due to stress first)

Nothing has worked, or improved any symptoms the slightest.
I feel when I eat salt, or drink alot of water (3 liters daily) my symptoms worsens.
When i'm hungover and rather dry within my body, my symptoms are slightly better.

I've been tested for diabetes, allergies, and all you can think of, the only thing that ever showed anything was 3 years ago when I was test for my thyroid, and It showed that I had high values of THS (Above margin)
This test was done 09.30

I was then told to go home and come back in a month to test my thryoid again, and this time I did the bloodwork at 15.30, and test showed up within margin (normal) and then Ive been undiagnosed for 3 years.

I have another appointment this tuesday 10.00


So my question Is, does my symptom sound like hyperthyroidsm? Did the late bloodwork (15.30) maybe work to my dissadvantage?


Thank you in advance
P

 

[PattySwe]

I also would like to add that my "half moons" on my nails are basically not visible at all

 

[wintagal]

Agree those signs and symptoms resemble hyperthyroid, especially high heart rate. Your TSH was "high" - but that would mean you were hypothyroid. You need to get the actual number and the lab ranges for the test. And yes, typically TSH is highest in very early morning, lower as the day progresses.
Your doctor should palpate your throat, over your adam's apple, to feel for any swelling of the thyroid gland.
You should check your temperatures - are they above normal often? Do you have loose stools? Those would also commonly be symptoms of hyperthyroidism.
Did metoprolol change how you felt? It is commonly given in emergency situations where someone has taken too much supplemental thyroid hormone.
Also, hashimoto's, the most common form of autoimmune hypothyroidism, can include episodes of hyperthyroidism.
Sounds like it's time for you to do some research and start taking charge of your health. Start with Chris Kresser, Tired Thyroid, and Stop the Thyroid Madness. Hyperthyroidism has very few treatment options and many people have had their thyroids removed as a treatment, which means that they are then dependent on replacement hormone the rest of their lives. I would avoid that if possible.
There are herbs which reduce thyroid action - my naturopath prescribed "Thyroid Calming" which includes bugleweed, motherwort, cactus stem, and lemon balm. I haven't tried it.

 

[Energizer]

Hello, I'm a 30 year old male from Sweden, and I have a couple of questions.
I suspect I have some kind of thyroid issue, here are the symptoms I currently have and have had for the last 3 years.

(Edit: Sorry for any misspellings, English is not my first language)

Symptoms
Heat sensitive (Red face daily, warm skin)
Fast Heartrate
Dry eyes, Dry scalp, Dry penis glans, dry throat
Heart palpitations
Itchy feet or sometimes shins
Cold feet/hands
Back/Lower back pain
Sleep Issues(Hard to fall asleep, and wake up after just a couple of hours sleep, but even though I slept few hours, i feel kinda up/speedy, worried during the day)
I feel anxious, worry alot for no reasons at all.


I've been at several doctors and tried everything you can think of, I even visited 3 different skindoctors that said it was NOT rosacea, I tried beta blockers, anti depressants (Doctors said it was all due to stress first)

Nothing has worked, or improved any symptoms the slightest.
I feel when I eat salt, or drink alot of water (3 liters daily) my symptoms worsens.
When i'm hungover and rather dry within my body, my symptoms are slightly better.

I've been tested for diabetes, allergies, and all you can think of, the only thing that ever showed anything was 3 years ago when I was test for my thyroid, and It showed that I had high values of THS (Above margin)
This test was done 09.30

I was then told to go home and come back in a month to test my thryoid again, and this time I did the bloodwork at 15.30, and test showed up within margin (normal) and then Ive been undiagnosed for 3 years.

I have another appointment this tuesday 10.00


So my question Is, does my symptom sound like hyperthyroidsm? Did the late bloodwork (15.30) maybe work to my dissadvantage?


Thank you in advance
P

You're going to get mixed advice on this forum, so I'd recommend reading Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness by Broda Barnes. It's a very comprehensive introduction to hypothyroidism and ways to detect it from someone who's worked for decades in treating people with the condition. Many people that are diagnosed with hyperthyroidism are actually hypo-thyroid, and unfortunately this can sometimes lead to unnecessary thyroid surgery or radioiodine treatment which as far as I know, is irreversible. So it's important to identify the correct condition. Hyperthyroidism can be treated with thyroid inhibiting drugs or even with goitrogenic foods like drinking large quantities of cabbage juice / eating excessive liver so the surgery and radioiodine treatments though they are sometimes recommended by doctors, I don't think they are appropriate if the safer and simpler options are just as effective.

From what symptoms you mentioned, that actually sounds like classical hypothyroidism. Hypothyriod people often have an excess of adrenaline and cold hands and feet, along with arthritic symptoms. Hypothyroid people often also have an elevated TSH, although this is not always the case. A bloodtest of cholesterol can also indicate hypothyroidism if the cholesterol is extremely high. Many times doctors will interpret hypothyroid symptoms erroneously as hyperthyroidism. RP has said he has only met a few people who ever had true hyperthyroidism, and had it himself, and it was very easily treated by doing nothing at all in his case (except eating and showering more). He also said he knew several women who had taken progesterone who became temporarily hyperthyroid, and they had said they felt the best they've ever felt during that period of several weeks or so of temporary hyperthyroidism.

Taking the pulse and temperature in tandem, on waking are tests recommended by Barnes for getting a rough gauge of thyroid function. Generally, the temperature should rise by midday to around 98.6F and the pulse should be somewhat high, 70-95 BPM approximately. The general principle is that thyroid influences all metabolic processes including the pulse and temperature.

Be prepared to question and think when visiting doctors as they are often abysmally dogmatic when it comes to the thyroid. You might consider consulting the wiki for more information on which bloodtests are useful: https://raypeatforum.com/wiki/index.php/FAQ#Blood_Tests:_Which_ones_should_I_get.3F_What_are_optimal_levels.3F

I would also recommend reading all of RP's articles on his website, raypeat.com and listening to all of his interviews: Ray Peat related sites directory (MarshmalloW)

The bloodtests are not the end-all and be all, so the resources above should help inform you on making a better decision.

Also don't trust what I or anyone else says, and think for yourself.

 

[tara]

If you want to, you could post more information, eg:
- actual TSH values at the two readings
- typical body temperature
- typical resting heart-rate
- average calories you eat in a day

High TSH can indicate the body thinks it needs to produce more thyroid hormones than it's getting - can indicate low thyroid state.

If you haven't been measuring body temps and resting heart-rate, these are easy things you can do at home yourself that can give you more information first to see what's going on, and then to help guide your recovery. Depending on how much time and energy you want to put to it, eg first thing in the morning, half hour after breakfast, and mid-afternoon. Or at least something, a few times.

Hypothyroid states typically tend to low body-temps; hyperthyroid to high. Heart-rate also tells a story, but this can be confused by stress responses - adrenaline also raises heart-rate, but IIUC, high thyroid tends to warm all over, whereas high adrenaline tends to cold feet and hands.

High metabolism uses more food, low metabolism burns less, so maintenance calories can indicate something about metabolism.

I don't know how the doctors and endocrinologists are in Sweden about thyroid issues, but in some places many of them seem to go by standard TSH ranges that are a bit too broad for some people. Have you read Peat's articles on his site about thyroid? raypeat.com

Also don't trust what I or anyone else says, and think for yourself.

+1
And learn.

 

[PattySwe]

So I got my thyroid tested yesterday and results came in today:

TSH: 3.81 (ref: 0.30-3.7)
T3Free: 8 (ref:3.1-6.3)
T4free: 19 (ref:12-22)

Dont know what to make of this

 

[sunraiser]

Also don't trust what I or anyone else says, and think for yourself.

Another +1 to this, as always you are the authority on you.

Although, in an almost immediate act of hypocrisy I really strongly urge you to tread carefully and don't consider yourself in a state that must be "attacked" or "fixed". This forum is full of people that have made their health drastically worse by abandoning intuition and jumping from fix to fix based on what seems logical - me included.

Intuition is king, you just need to work WITH your body while living your life - small change is far more successful and tolerable while also allowing you to gauge what's happening to your health.

First and foremost, you are in a TRANSIENT and DYNAMIC state of metabolic and physical health. In my experience making a statement like you "have hypothryoidism" (or any other labelled condition) is the first step on a path to worse health. There is no one path back to health and your intuition will be a huge part of staying healthy. 10 different people could be in a "hypothyroid" state with 10 different mineral and hormonal issues that would correct in different ways - the labels are of no practical purpose to you personally, and there's no one size fits all approach.

To highlight my last point I have put myself in states a little similar to yours via unintuitive attemps to "heal". A couple of examples...

1. I took iodine thinking it was going to solve my problems and all it did was deplete me of much needed magnesium and selenium - it left me with cold extremeties and an overall sense of being cold down to the bone that I'd never experienced before. My path out of that was actually just eating the pork sausages I'd been craving as it appears the grains grown where I live aren't particularly rich in selenium. (There were likely other factors but selenium inclusion in the diet is my perceived notion of the biggest change).

2. I had a great reaction to eating liver a few times, and when I started to deteriorate I effectively caused the same state as above (actually a lot worse) by eating lots of lamb liver while not enjoying it. This causes all sorts of metabolic chaos and I perceive part of it to be iodine depletion as well as excess copper/antioxidant issues. The point is, the same states can be caused by different things, and as much as you might THINK you know what's wrong within the body, you often don't. Or at least you don't know the whole truth. This is why a healing "protocol" that you often find here is a dangerous thing. I like to think more of a framework or a sensible pursuit of health philsophy are more conducive to long term wellbeing.

So, with the aforementioned comments very strongly in mind at all times, I'll ask a few things...

- List the food types (approx) and drinks that you have in a given average week (this will help identify what might be missing so you can add something and see if you really crave it)
- What time do you eat your last food of the day and what time do you eat breakfast? (this can help understand the state of your glycogen storage).

It really sounds like mineral metabolism issues or just general deficiencies. I promise you can feel better again, it's just a case of patience and finding that mind/body/soul balance while you learn more about yourself and your health. It's not about fixing your sickness, just moving very slowly towards a state you're comfortable with while simultaneously living your life approximately the way you always have, with some minor edits!

 

[sunraiser]

One more question!

- do you exercise or have the energy to exercise in general? General daily movement like lots of house work or generally being on your feet are relevant, too!

 

[marsaday]

You need to do some more research

Your results are abnormal.

When you have high ft3 and 4 tsh is low because the body wants to shut off the excess energy. Currently your body is in a high performance state and it is STILL applying the accelerator.

Please google high tsh and high f3 and you will get a table offering some reasons for this.

Your symptoms sound like HYPER ones.

You should have thyroid antibody tests done as well.

 

[PattySwe]

I am scheduled to go back in 3 weeks for another test, if my results stay the same they will send
me to a thyroid specialist (dont remember the correct term)

 

[wintagal]

So I got my thyroid tested yesterday and results came in today:

TSH: 3.81 (ref: 0.30-3.7)
T3Free: 8 (ref:3.1-6.3)
T4free: 19 (ref:12-22)

Dont know what to make of this

Your free T3 and T4 are high - especially the T3 ,which affects metabolism most. The TSH should be low but it isn't, so it's acting inappropriately for some unknown reason. You need to research and ask the doctors what you can do - there are herbs and drugs that may slow down your thyroid. If they propose to destroy some or all of your thyroid, I recommend that you delay and consider that for a long time before you do something irreversible.
The Tired Thyroid website is written by a woman whose thyroid was destroyed because she was hyperthyroid, and the rest of her life has been spent trying to find a replacement thyroid dose that keeps her healthy. I recommend reading the website and getting her book.

 

[PattySwe]

Thank you for your conecern wintagal, there are some meds in sweden that slows down t3 production, Im not looking for anything drastic or irreversable to do for the moment!
I'll see how it all plays out til i meet with the thryoid specialist

thank you all for your inputs and tips, but it seems like i've finally found the root to all my symptoms, and thankfull that it was not "stress"
which most doctors said it was before they started looking into my thyroid

I was feeling stressed, high pulse, red skin, heat sensitive, trouble sleeping, but mentally I was still happy and "normal" but It wasnt til the doctor said that the symptoms are due to stress, which led to anxiety, he convinced me that I'm anxious so much that i actually became It, since I saw no other explanation to my symptoms.

Some doctors do more harm then good sometimes, Many lessons learnt from this 3 year journey

 

[tara]

As a non-expert, I agree with the others that your results - high T3 with high TSH - look unusual, and may be worth investigating further to see if there are causes you need to know about beyond normal environmental ones.

I agree with the others above about researching yourself so you understand more about how the thyroid hormone system works, and not to be hasty to apply drastic (especially irreversible) measures. I suggest reading more than one source with different perspectives, and including Peat as one of those. And I agree with sunraiser about not just applying a protocol, but also attending to your intuition as you make changes.

Not sure how much of the basics you've got yet? It's more complex than this, but for the hormones you've had tested, this is how I understand it. (If someone else who understands this better can improve on or correct this if I've got it wrong, please do.):
- Thyroid gland produces hormones both T4 (more) and T3 (less).
- T3 (triiodothyronine) is the active thyroid hormone that the cells need to get energy production going (if they also have the fuel and other conditions and cofactors they need). T3 has a shortish half-life.
- T4 (thyroxine) is more the storage/reserve form. It has a longer half-life and gets converted to T3 in the body, esp the liver.
- The pituitary produces TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) to stimulate the thyroid to produce more thyroid hormones when the system thinks it needs it.
- Hypothalamus signals the pituitary to produce TSH.

So when there is lots of T3, and the body is running hot and fast, you don't usually expect the pituitary to be telling the thyroid to produce more thyroid hormones. So there might be questions about what is going on upstream.

Could still be that stress in some form is part of the story. I think the the hypothalamus, and most systems, respond to stress of some kinds. But around here we often think of stress quite broadly.

 

[Doublecapricorn]

Having too much Vitamin A can cause dryness (it is more common than you think) Also, having too little Iodine can cause dryness, Iodine increases moisture in the body. Here's an interesting ebook to read. Good luck to you! https://ggenereux.blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/extinguishing-the-fires-of-hell2.pdf