Thyroid - Pituitary - Gonads Relationship Study

[vulture]

"Untreated hypothyroid men showed a normal hormone sex response to hCG, but the LH response to GnRH was reduced"

Trying to find more about secundary hypogonadism and if there's a way to overcome it, found this:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3109/01485019708988535

 

[vulture]

BONUS:
The interrelationships between thyroid dysfunction and hypogonadism in men and boys. - PubMed - NCBI

Thyroid hormone deficiency affects all tissues of the body, including multiple endocrine changes that alter growth hormone, corticotrophin, glucocorticoids, and gonadal function. Primary hypothyroidism is associated with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which is reversible with thyroid hormone replacement therapy. In male children follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) is elevated and associated with testicular enlargement without virilization. Men with primary hypothyroidism have subnormal responses of luteinizing hormone (LH) to gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) administration and normal response to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). Free testosterone concentrations are reduced in men with primary hypothyroidism and thyroid hormone replacement normalizes free testosterone concentrations. In men with primary hypothyroidism, prolactin is not consistently elevated (except in men and children with longstanding severe primary hypothyroidism), but prolactin declines following thyroid hormone replacement therapy. Thyroid hormone is known to affect sex hormone-binding hormonal globulin (SHBG) concentrations. Men with hyperthyroidism have elevated concentrations of testosterone and SHBG. Thyroid hormone therapy in normal men may also duplicate this elevation. In addition estradiol elevations are observed in men with hyperthyroidism, and gynecomastia is common in them as well. In contrast to patients with primary hypothyroidism, men with hyperthyroidism exhibit hyperresponsiveness of LH to GnRH administration and subnormal responses to hCG. Radioactive iodine therapy (RAI) of men treated for thyroid cancer produces a dose-dependent impairment of spermatogenesis and elevation of FSH up to approximately 2 years. Permanent testicular germ cell damage may occur in men treated with high doses of RAI. RAI commonly increases serum concentrations of FSH and LH while reducing inhibin B levels without affecting serum concentrations of testosterone. Thus, radioiodine therapy transiently impairs both germinal and Leydig cell function that usually recover by 18 months posttherapy.

 

[vulture]

T3 directly stimulates basal and modulates LH induced testosterone and oestradiol production by rat Leydig cells in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI
The effect of T3 on basal and LH mediated synthesis and secretion of testosterone and oestradiol by puberal rat Leydig cells was studied in vitro. Percoll gradient purified Leydig cells (1 x 10(3)) were cultured for 48 hours at 34 degrees C in a medium containing a range of 5-400 ng/mL concentration of T3 or ovine LH after 24 hours initial culture at 37 degrees C. T3 increased testosterone and oestradiol secretions in a dose dependent manner which reached the saturation point with 50 ng dose. While the minimum effective dose of T3 (25 ng) potentiated the stimulatory effect of the minimum effective dose of LH (25 ng) on testosterone secretion, it suppressed the effect of the saturation dose of LH (100 ng). Fifty ng T3 quelled the stimulatory effect of either dose of LH. Both doses of T3 increased oestradiol secretion, irrespective of the dose of LH. Addition of androstenedione (500 ng/mL) to the culture medium enhanced 25 ng T3 induced testosterone and oestradiol secretions. While androstenedione potentiated the stimulatory effect of T3 (25 ng) on LH (25 ng) induced testosterone and oestradiol secretions, it reversed the inhibitory effect of 50 ng T3 on LH mediated testosterone secretion which was accompanied by a decrease in oestradiol secretion. Puromycin (35 microg/mL) suppressed the stimulatory effect of T3 on basal and LH mediated testosterone and oestradiol production. Taken together, the present results indicate a direct stimulatory effects of T3 on basal production of testosterone and oestradiol by Leydig cells and its modulatory effect on LH mediated steroidogenic activity varies depending upon the intensity of LH stimuli.

 

[TreasureVibe]

There is an actual doctor who treats steroids induced secondary hypogonadism and has treated thousands of individuals who abused AAS. His name is Dr. Michael Scally MD, you might be interested in researching his works.

 

[vulture]

Testicular dysfunction in men with primary hypothy...[Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 2000] - PubMed Result

"OBJECTIVE: Primary hypothyroidism can cause disturbances in normal gonadal function. The aim of this study was to investigate the relationship in men between hypogonadism and primary hypothyroidism and the extent to which free and total testosterone levels rose after introduction of replacement thyroxine. DESIGN: Paired study of patients in a hypothyroid and thyroxine treated state. PATIENTS: Ten men with primary hypothyroidism. MEASUREMENTS: Free and total testosterone, gonadotrophin and prolactin levels before and after thyroxine replacement therapy. RESULTS: Low free testosterone levels (161 +/- 62 pmol/l) demonstrated at the time the men were hypothyroid rose significantly with the commencement of thyroxine replacement (315 +/- 141 pmol/l; P < 0.001). Gonadotrophin levels were not elevated consistent with hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. Hyperprolactinaemia, which can occur in primary hypothyroidism and cause hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism, was not present in the majority of these patients. However a reduction in prolactin level was evident with thyroxine replacement and a rise in free testosterone levels. CONCLUSION: This suggests an effect of hypothyroidism on gonadotrophin secretion at the level of the hypothalamus-pituitary, either directly or through modulation of prolactin secretion. Low free testosterone may also be a contributing factor to some of the symptoms and signs of hypothyroidism in men."

 

[vulture]

@TreasureVibe
I think a combination of T3 and HCG supplementation (or separate) might be a good experiment on secundary hypogonadism.
I think it's a good idea to try first T3 and test for androgens in blood, then while still on T3 maybe trying a low dose of HCG.

 

[TreasureVibe]

@TreasureVibe
I think a combination of T3 and HCG supplementation (or separate) might be a good experiment on secundary hypogonadism.
I think it's a good idea to try first T3 and test for androgens in blood, then while still on T3 maybe trying a low dose of HCG.

I think I've read that HCG is carcinogenic...

 

[benaoao]

There is an actual doctor who treats steroids induced secondary hypogonadism and has treated thousands of individuals who abused AAS. His name is Dr. Michael Scally MD, you might be interested in researching his works.

... who lost his license and is regularly made fun of by top notch HRT doctors isn’t he? Scally doses are quite insane generally. Crisler, Saya, Shippen have much better and sustainable approaches

Also OP: great posts

 

[TreasureVibe]

... who lost his license and is regularly made fun of by top notch HRT doctors isn’t he? Scally doses are quite insane generally. Crisler, Saya, Shippen have much better and sustainable approaches

Also OP: great posts

I read about that right after I posted my post yeah, he lost his medical license because he prescribed AAS. He did some research till 2014 on AAS-induced secondary hypogonadism, I can see on researchgate.com. I didn't know that he was made fun of by top notch HRT doctors.

What are the compounds Crisley, Saya and Shippen prescribe? And what do you generally think of those yourself?

 

[vulture]

More interesting info regarding varicoceles and how testicles respondo to HCG. As long as I understood it seems testicles are able to respond to HCG, therefore, it seems that lowered T in varicoceles patients might be a CONSEQUENCE of something else and not the varicose vein on itself. Maybe is a more systemic disease that manifests in damage to testicle's veins. I once speculated increased aromatization in testicles due to stress (and maybe along with excessive masturbation) might damage the veins because of the higher than normal estrogen levels going through those veins.
I'd appreciate insights on this subject

Testosterone in peripheral plasma, spermatic vein and in testicular tissue under basal conditions and after HCG-stimulation in patients with varico... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[TreasureVibe]

More interesting info regarding varicoceles and how testicles respondo to HCG. As long as I understood it seems testicles are able to respond to HCG, therefore, it seems that lowered T in varicoceles patients might be a CONSEQUENCE of something else and not the varicose vein on itself. Maybe is a more systemic disease that manifests in damage to testicle's veins. I once speculated increased aromatization in testicles due to stress (and maybe along with excessive masturbation) might damage the veins because of the higher than normal estrogen levels going through those veins.
I'd appreciate insights on this subject

Testosterone in peripheral plasma, spermatic vein and in testicular tissue under basal conditions and after HCG-stimulation in patients with varico... - PubMed - NCBI

Iron is related to prostate issues. I took IP6 (iron chelator) for 3 days and my varicocele is still now, a couple of weeks later, smaller overall than before the IP6. Metabolically I also feel alot better, and alot better hormonally. Just overall relaxed but also feeling like I have more power in my body. Good signs. Now going to try androsterone, (aromatase inhibitor) which will perhaps be the finishing blow. (I hope)

It might be a prostate problem like BPH which causes the varicocele.

I think in my case there are signals that show that. But both my BPH and varicocele started after supraphysiological doses of testosterone enanthate.

Perhaps the testosterone induced BPH, and that caused my varicocele. It makes sense. There is a study showing how testosterone induced BPH in mice.

Or it is caused by estrogen, through aromatization, the prostate is rich in aromatase enzymes in its tissue. So the T that I injected was aromatased, causing estrogen, which caused enlargement and varicocele.

You have a varicocele and tried an AI (exemestane) yet the varicocele persisted so perhaps that is a sign that it is indeed caused by an enlarged prostate.

 

[vulture]

Iron is related to prostate issues. I took IP6 (iron chelator) for 3 days and my varicocele is still now, a couple of weeks later, smaller overall than before the IP6. Metabolically I also feel alot better, and alot better hormonally. Just overall relaxed but also feeling like I have more power in my body. Good signs. Now going to try androsterone, (aromatase inhibitor) which will perhaps be the finishing blow. (I hope)

It might be a prostate problem like BPH which causes the varicocele.

I think in my case there are signals that show that. But both my BPH and varicocele started after supraphysiological doses of testosterone enanthate.

Perhaps the testosterone induced BPH, and that caused my varicocele. It makes sense. There is a study showing how testosterone induced BPH in mice.

Or it is caused by estrogen, through aromatization, the prostate is rich in aromatase enzymes in its tissue. So the T that I injected was aromatased, causing estrogen, which caused enlargement and varicocele.

You have a varicocele and tried an AI (exemestane) yet the varicocele persisted so perhaps that is a sign that it is indeed caused by an enlarged prostate.

I never tried exemestane. My AI are white buttom mushrooms, methylene blue, sometimes aspirin...nothing pharmaceutical.

 

[TreasureVibe]

I never tried exemestane. My AI are white buttom mushrooms, methylene blue, sometimes aspirin...nothing pharmaceutical.

Androsterone is a natural variant of exemestane available at Idea Labs, that you could try. It's stronger than those nutrients. Together with IP6 Gold if you're willing and dietary calcium of 2000mg and it might happen to fix your varicocele. I'm still working on it, btw, my mobile phone is still broken, but I'm getting it fixed soon, then we can work on the varicocele database and more bro! Experimenting in the meanwhile with the things I just mentioned for my varicocele. Greetings.

 

[vulture]

Androsterone is a natural variant of exemestane available at Idea Labs, that you could try. It's stronger than those nutrients. Together with IP6 Gold if you're willing and dietary calcium of 2000mg and it might happen to fix your varicocele. I'm still working on it, btw, my mobile phone is still broken, but I'm getting it fixed soon, then we can work on the varicocele database and more bro! Experimenting in the meanwhile with the things I just mentioned for my varicocele. Greetings.

"...it might happen to fix your varicocele."
I'm right now focused on improving my androgen and thyroid profile. I mean: my problem is not some engorged veins in my groin, my problem is vitality, libido, metabolism, erections...I think that is what I'm really considering right now and I don't know if I'm going to reduce or repair those veins, if I can enjoy life and **** with those veins, I might not care about them. I'm saying all these because I've seen a study stating that varicocele impacted testicles seems to produce testosterone if they get HCG.

What I'm thinking is starting some thyroid supplementation, along with Peaty diet, reducing stress and then introducing low dose HCG while keeping an eye on T levels. If it doesn't work, I think I'm moving to Mesterolone supplementation and (if needed) some T supplementation.

 

[TreasureVibe]

"...it might happen to fix your varicocele."
I'm right now focused on improving my androgen and thyroid profile. I mean: my problem is not some engorged veins in my groin, my problem is vitality, libido, metabolism, erections...I think that is what I'm really considering right now and I don't know if I'm going to reduce or repair those veins, if I can enjoy life and **** with those veins, I might not care about them. I'm saying all these because I've seen a study stating that varicocele impacted testicles seems to produce testosterone if they get HCG.

What I'm thinking is starting some thyroid supplementation, along with Peaty diet, reducing stress and then introducing low dose HCG while keeping an eye on T levels. If it doesn't work, I think I'm moving to Mesterolone supplementation and (if needed) some T supplementation.

HCG is a carcinogenic. A simple strong AI like androsterone (and IP6 Gold) would be all you need bro. No need for complicated HCG injections, mesterolone or Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

 

[vulture]

HCG is a carcinogenic. A simple strong AI like androsterone (and IP6 Gold) would be all you need bro. No need for complicated HCG injections, mesterolone or Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

How carcinogenic at low dosages? do you have studies on that? I didn't find anything relevant on the subject.
I'm not planing going on it for years, just a month or two along with T3 to see if I manage to turn the whole thing on with an hypercaloric diet. T3 increases androgenic output and responses to LH, low thyroid won't let your body get into an optimally androgen enviroment, it seems that these things are systemic, I don't think it's a good idea to try to "get T up", no, it's not just T, there must be a bunch of things related, the SYSTEM is not working and it needs to be addressed systematically. I think I'm getting more the Peat idea: it's not about getting T up, it's about getting the whole body into a well nourished and prosperous state, and it's involves from diet to supplements and even lifestyle.

 

[TreasureVibe]

How carcinogenic at low dosages? do you have studies on that? I didn't find anything relevant on the subject.
I'm not planing going on it for years, just a month or two along with T3 to see if I manage to turn the whole thing on with an hypercaloric diet. T3 increases androgenic output and responses to LH, low thyroid won't let your body get into an optimally androgen enviroment, it seems that these things are systemic, I don't think it's a good idea to try to "get T up", no, it's not just T, there must be a bunch of things related, the SYSTEM is not working and it needs to be addressed systematically. I think I'm getting more the Peat idea: it's not about getting T up, it's about getting the whole body into a well nourished and prosperous state, and it's involves from diet to supplements and even lifestyle.

Testosterone that gets aromatized to estrogen is lost testosterone. Meaning low T on your blood test. Estrogen possibly causes prostate cancer, is known to cause cancer in general, and definitely causes varicose veins. Even if metabolism is low that doesn't mean you should have low T symptoms per definition. The testosterone:estrogen balance is simply off.

I had the theory which some just alluded as true (Haidut and Ray Peat himself in an interview), that estrogen gets stored in tissue, and also is slowly secreted from there. So you might have to detox estrogen too, so using progesterone during the use of androsterone. I got the ratio for dosage if you need it. Vitamin K2 might support the liver during this time to process the estrogen out of the body.

"shocking" the system to go on is a theory I don't necessarily believe is scientific, as if it were a defibrillator you were using for your endocrine system. All I heard that theory from is bodybuilding circles and those aren't known to be the brightest when it comes to this stuff.
Does Ray Peat support the defib endocrine system theory with the use of HCG for example?

Ray Peat mentioning how estrogen gets stored in the tissue:



Haidut answering to me in a PM to a question about if the above video of what Peat mentions is true:

I know for a fact that a person can have low serum and high tissue estrogen and that progestrone and androgens can get the estrogen out of the cell.

HCG can help cancer grow source:

The late Virginia Livingston-Wheeler, M.D., who had a clinic in San Diego spent a lifetime studying the etiology of cancer and has formulated a microbial theory of cancer. In the 1960's, Dr. Livingston discovered a cancer microbe she named Progenitor Cryptocides (PC). This microbe was first discovered by Dr. Royal Raymond Rife who built a microscope capable of making this tiny microbe visible. He named it Progenitor primoridales. PC (or PP) can be found in the placenta of a pregnant woman and in the tumor cells of humans and animals with cancer. Hence, Dr. Livingston-Wheeler called PC "the microbe of life and death." In a healthy person, PC, via its conversion to a hormone called Human Choriogonadotropin (HCG), repairs tissues and returns to rest. In an unhealthy or immune-compromised person, HCG fuels the growth of cancer cells. HCG is present in all tumor cells and is required for their growth. Next, Dr. Livingston-Wheeler discovered that abscisic acid neutralizes HCG.

Source (Word document): http://www.litalee.com/documents/Cancer And Tumors Nutritional Program.doc

 

[vulture]

Testosterone that gets aromatized to estrogen is lost testosterone. Meaning low T on your blood test. Estrogen possibly causes prostate cancer, is known to cause cancer in general, and definitely causes varicose veins. Even if metabolism is low that doesn't mean you should have low T symptoms per definition. The testosterone:estrogen balance is simply off.

I had the theory which some just alluded as true (Haidut and Ray Peat himself in an interview), that estrogen gets stored in tissue, and also is slowly secreted from there. So you might have to detox estrogen too, so using progesterone during the use of androsterone. I got the ratio for dosage if you need it. Vitamin K2 might support the liver during this time to process the estrogen out of the body.

"shocking" the system to go on is a theory I don't necessarily believe is scientific, as if it were a defibrillator you were using for your endocrine system. All I heard that theory from is bodybuilding circles and those aren't known to be the brightest when it comes to this stuff.
Does Ray Peat support the defib endocrine system theory with the use of HCG for example?

Ray Peat mentioning how estrogen gets stored in the tissue:



Haidut answering to me in a PM to a question about if the above video of what Peat mentions is true:



HCG can help cancer grow source:

The late Virginia Livingston-Wheeler, M.D., who had a clinic in San Diego spent a lifetime studying the etiology of cancer and has formulated a microbial theory of cancer. In the 1960's, Dr. Livingston discovered a cancer microbe she named Progenitor Cryptocides (PC). This microbe was first discovered by Dr. Royal Raymond Rife who built a microscope capable of making this tiny microbe visible. He named it Progenitor primoridales. PC (or PP) can be found in the placenta of a pregnant woman and in the tumor cells of humans and animals with cancer. Hence, Dr. Livingston-Wheeler called PC "the microbe of life and death." In a healthy person, PC, via its conversion to a hormone called Human Choriogonadotropin (HCG), repairs tissues and returns to rest. In an unhealthy or immune-compromised person, HCG fuels the growth of cancer cells. HCG is present in all tumor cells and is required for their growth. Next, Dr. Livingston-Wheeler discovered that abscisic acid neutralizes HCG.

Source (Word document): http://www.litalee.com/documents/Cancer And Tumors Nutritional Program.doc

Didn't find studies with an HCG to Cancer relationship

 

[TreasureVibe]

Didn't find studies with an HCG to Cancer relationship

Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG or b-HCG)
Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG or b-HCG) is a hormone that the placenta makes when a woman is pregnant. Certain cancer cells can also make it.

Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG or b-HCG) - Canadian Cancer Society

 

[vulture]

Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG or b-HCG)
Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG or b-HCG) is a hormone that the placenta makes when a woman is pregnant. Certain cancer cells can also make it.

Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG or b-HCG) - Canadian Cancer Society

You know it's not enought to say that HCG supplementation (specially low dose for few months) increases cancer rates