Thyroid Panel Comparison - 2 Tests. Help?

[Wayne J]

Glad I found this site! T2 diabetic. Ran across a Dr. Broda Barnes, basal temp & pulse check for thyroid. Have been on metformin, then testosterone replacement. Getting off metformin replacing with 1000 - 1500 mg a day of berberine with added zychrome and 100mg ceylon cinnamon. Am and daily blood glucose WAS coming down nicely. Started on Nature Throid under doctors care. Great doc, but started me on .25 grain, after several weeks put me on .5 grain. A month + later allowed me to try .75 grain. I think he took too long to build up the doses and my fasting glucose is climbing into the 120's - 130's again. Increasing the Berberine to 1500-2000 mg to compensate for now - I hope. He is afraid of giving me too much, too soon, but I think I am getting too little. Showing some weight loss - about 10 lbs over 2 months and it stopped again. Feeling the low thyroid symptoms. Have 2 lab results. the first is before starting nature throid, second after 6 weeks on .5 grain. Am now taking .75 grain, .5 on wakeup and .25 empty stomach 30 mins+ before dinner. Will be doing more tests at the 4 week point on the .75. Am still getting hypothyroid symptoms.
Collection 1/11/18 Before Nature-Throid.
T3, free 2.60 (range 2.18 - 3.98 pg/mL)
T4, free .91 (range .76 - 1.46 pg/mL)
TSH 2.520 (range .400 - 5.140 uIU/mL)
Thyroid Antibodies
TPO High 12.9 (ref range - 0.0 to 9.0IU/mL)
ABS <.9 (ref range 0.0 to 4.0)
------------
collected 3/21/18 - so was on .5 grain all that time waiting.
T3, free 3.02 (range 2.18 - 3.98 pg/mL)
T4, free .94 (range .76 - 1.46 pg/mL)
TSH 3.530 (range .400 - 5.140 uIU/mL)
Thyroid Antibodies
TPO High 20.3 (ref range - 0.0 to 9.0IU/mL)
ABS <.9 (ref range 0.0 to 4.0)

he never ordered the RT3 test.
After this 2nd test the doc said I could raise to .75 grain Nature-Throid and did so. My fasting glucose is climbing as I said before. My basal temps are running 97.0-97.4 at wakeup with pulse 70-78. Mid day temp around noon is 97.4. Getting some symptoms of low cortisol. But will have to get the battery of tests to know for sure.
On low fat diet, cooking veggies well, using pasture eggs (2) in am with a little fruit, and moderate protein during day. I think I am meeting the 80 grams per Peat. Two cups coffee a day with some honey and LF milk. Moderate exercise each day - walking about 2 miles.
The doc is hemming and hawing around interpreting about the tests. He is good at what he does, but is pushing the Dr. Gundry Plant Paradox diet. I want to get the thyroid thing straightened out before I get to changing too many things at once. Advice or input would be appreciated.
Am 70, 240 lbs, on Losartan 25 for BP, replacement Testosterone, and Anastrozole for aromatase inhibitor.
Have been perusing the site for thyroid help. Thanks!
Thanks! - Wayne

 

[aguilaroja]

...Am now taking .75 grain, .5 on wakeup and .25 empty stomach 30 mins+ before dinner. Will be doing more tests at the 4 week point on the .75. Am still getting hypothyroid symptoms.
...collected 3/21/18 - so was on .5 grain all that time waiting.
T3, free 3.02 (range 2.18 - 3.98 pg/mL) T4, free .94 (range .76 - 1.46 pg/mL)
TSH 3.530 (range .400 - 5.140 uIU/mL)
Thyroid Antibodies TPO High 20.3 (ref range - 0.0 to 9.0IU/mL)
...
Am 70, 240 lbs, on Losartan 25 for BP, replacement Testosterone, and Anastrozole for aromatase inhibitor.

“Natural” NDT preparations have both T4 and T3 thyroid hormones in a fixed 4:1 ratio. T3(liothyronine/Cytomel) is the short acting kind. It is good you are spliting the NDT currently. It is generally better to spread T3 out through the day. Three-quarters of a grain of Naturethroid has 28.5 micrograms of T4, and 6.75 micrograms T3.

The reported weight, WADR, suggests you are relatively large. It is not surprising that one-quarter grain change in NDT amount brings little change in lab measurements. Just for perspective, Broda Barnes starting patients with two grains of NDT. (Dr. Barnes see a high volume of patients, in a different medical era.) I am not especially recommending NDT. I also do not give guidance on this specific situation.

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud
"Since T3 has a short half life, it should be taken frequently. If the liver isn't producing a noticeable amount of T3, it is usually helpful to take a few micrograms per hour. Since it restores respiration and metabolic efficiency very quickly, it isn't usually necessary to take it every hour or two, but until normal temperature and pulse have been achieved and stabilized, sometimes it's necessary to take it four or more times during the day. T4 acts by being changed to T3, so it tends to accumulate in the body, and on a given dose, usually reaches a steady concentration after about two weeks.

You can search the forum. Dr. Peat is not an advocate of boosting cortisol. He views cortisol as one factor in impaired metabolism:
Gelatin, stress, longevity
“When only the muscle meats are eaten, the amino acid balance entering our blood stream is the same as that produced by extreme stress, when cortisol excess causes our muscles to be broken down to provide energy and material for repair. The formation of serotonin is increased by the excess tryptophan in muscle, and serotonin stimulates the formation of more cortisol, while the tryptophan itself, along with the excess muscle-derived cysteine, suppresses the thyroid function.”

 

[Luckytype]

Im confused on the tsh number being higher.

Does this mean hes becoming better in a cellular metabolism sense(from the ndt) so the body is asking for more thyroid?

 

[Wayne J]

“Natural” NDT preparations have both T4 and T3 thyroid hormones in a fixed 4:1 ratio. T3(liothyronine/Cytomel) is the short acting kind. It is good you are spliting the NDT currently. It is generally better to spread T3 out through the day. Three-quarters of a grain of Naturethroid has 28.5 micrograms of T4, and 6.75 micrograms T3.

The reported weight, WADR, suggests you are relatively large. It is not surprising that one-quarter grain change in NDT amount brings little change in lab measurements. Just for perspective, Broda Barnes starting patients with two grains of NDT. (Dr. Barnes see a high volume of patients, in a different medical era.) I am not especially recommending NDT. I also do not give guidance on this specific situation.

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud
"Since T3 has a short half life, it should be taken frequently. If the liver isn't producing a noticeable amount of T3, it is usually helpful to take a few micrograms per hour. Since it restores respiration and metabolic efficiency very quickly, it isn't usually necessary to take it every hour or two, but until normal temperature and pulse have been achieved and stabilized, sometimes it's necessary to take it four or more times during the day. T4 acts by being changed to T3, so it tends to accumulate in the body, and on a given dose, usually reaches a steady concentration after about two weeks.

You can search the forum. Dr. Peat is not an advocate of boosting cortisol. He views cortisol as one factor in impaired metabolism:
Gelatin, stress, longevity
“When only the muscle meats are eaten, the amino acid balance entering our blood stream is the same as that produced by extreme stress, when cortisol excess causes our muscles to be broken down to provide energy and material for repair. The formation of serotonin is increased by the excess tryptophan in muscle, and serotonin stimulates the formation of more cortisol, while the tryptophan itself, along with the excess muscle-derived cysteine, suppresses the thyroid function.”

-----------
Thank you - certainly gives me more good information. Nothing said here is given as medical advice, nor is it taken that way. Being heavy was a reason I thought the doc would have prescribed a larger starting dose. May take 1/2 .5 grain tablet 3x a day instead of the whole one in the am. But you are right from what you are saying and I am reading. The does is too low. - Time-wise, just got to the 2 week point with the .75/day does, but the symptoms are still there. Looks like I have a grain or so to go - have to convince the doc to cut loose on 1.5 - 2 grains a day - or find some t3 only liquid and take a few micro grams very couple of hours being careful not to go over a certain dosage. Am still going to do the 4x day saliva cortisol test, then get a full lab test with hormones and Thyroid panel from the Life Extension Foundation - annual 1/2 price sale on - and see where all the blood work is all at once instead of piecemealing it. Thanks for the reponse!

 

[Wayne J]

Im confused on the tsh number being higher.

Does this mean hes becoming better in a cellular metabolism sense(from the ndt) so the body is asking for more thyroid?

I am confused as well - but that is what I understand from reading a number of posts here.

My current problem is morning glucose going BACK UP into the low-mid 120's in the morning. Started after 6-8 weeks on too low a dose of Nature-Throid. With the Thyroid 'speeding up' and bumping up my fasting glucose may have to quit taking it or go on diabetic drugs again - which really stunk.

 

[Luckytype]

Bump