Thyroid and Pregnancy

[apr]

I had read an earlier post (unnamed) where she asks about ideal TSH during pregnancy. I am interested in following up as there were no replies.


I am also interested in more clarity regarding thyroid supplementation while trying to conceive/ be pregnant in order to provide more support for a successful outcome.

My daughter is trying to conceive and has been on Tyromax (after years on Cynoplus) and seems to have shown some improvement in thyroid function....less fatigue and temps a bit better than before.

She visited an ENDO recently and was told that studies have shown that one must not take T3 while pregnant. Dr. said pregnancy uses up a high amount of T4 and that is recommended to supplement with T4 only and at temporarily higher doses than normally (to avoid birth defects). She also said it has been shown that T3 supplementation does not reach the embryo. My daughter gave her the ratio of T4:T3 that is in Tyromax and she said she would have to take a ridiculous amount of T3 to meet the ratio amount of T4 she is advising her to take.

I would think the mother needs T3 to get pregnant and also to sustain the pregnancy but I may be wrong. I am sure there are millions out there on T4 only who have had perfectly health babies.

Anyone have thoughts on this? Anyone take Tyromax up to conceiving and throughout pregnancy? Anyone take high amounts of T4? Or T4 with a dab of T3?

@haidut do you have comments on this pls?

Thank you!

 

[Deborah888]

I developed post-pregnancy hypothyroidism years ago. I tested negative for Hashimotos and they said, "Oh must be pituitary". That's it. Then they gave me T4. Later I learned more and added T3, then worked on my adrenals. Anyway, fast-forward to 18 years later....Because of Covid in March 2020 I started taking much higher doses of Vitamin D3 (10000-15000IU per day). Two months later I started having heart palpitations, tachycardia, etc. Turned out that I simply developed hypERthyroididm. Weird, because I hadn't needed to change my dosage of thyroid meds in several years. So they were lowered. My Vitamin D levels were barely sufficient even after 2 months on such high doses. So I kept on with the Vitamin D3. Well I kept having to lower the dose of my thyroid meds until I eventually was completely OFF of them! Now, almost 2 years later, my D3 level is finally above 50 and I haven't needed thyroid meds AT. ALL. So...I have looked it up and sure enough, low D3 is associated with low thyroid. All this to say you might get Vitamin D levels checked! Since this has happened to me I've heard similar stories from other women, too.

 

[apr]

I developed post-pregnancy hypothyroidism years ago. I tested negative for Hashimotos and they said, "Oh must be pituitary". That's it. Then they gave me T4. Later I learned more and added T3, then worked on my adrenals. Anyway, fast-forward to 18 years later....Because of Covid in March 2020 I started taking much higher doses of Vitamin D3 (10000-15000IU per day). Two months later I started having heart palpitations, tachycardia, etc. Turned out that I simply developed hypERthyroididm. Weird, because I hadn't needed to change my dosage of thyroid meds in several years. So they were lowered. My Vitamin D levels were barely sufficient even after 2 months on such high doses. So I kept on with the Vitamin D3. Well I kept having to lower the dose of my thyroid meds until I eventually was completely OFF of them! Now, almost 2 years later, my D3 level is finally above 50 and I haven't needed thyroid meds AT. ALL. So...I have looked it up and sure enough, low D3 is associated with low thyroid. All this to say you might get Vitamin D levels checked! Since this has happened to me I've heard similar stories from other women, too.

Thank you Deborah.

I believe Peat has said that D3 and mag can work similarly to thyroid. I got off thyroid meds after decades on it with no noticeable improvements. Since off thyroid my temps are better than ever, but now that you mention D3 it may be because I too began supplementing due to Covid. Would be great if that were the solution!

My daughter is trying to conceive now and I don't think getting off t3 is a good idea. But I will suggest to her to maybe up her dose of D3. Best to get tested first though.

 

[Deborah888]

Yes, getting tested first of course. I never heard of T3 being a problem for conceiving or pregnancy, although I always did best with both T4 and T3 together. I also addressed low adrenals, first with low-dose Cortef, then later naturally with herbs like ashwagandha and black licorice (which I once overdid it with the licorice so I wouldn't recommend that). But now I look back at all of that and just wonder if it was all just Vitamin D deficiency the whole time. It would be great if D3 could make the issue a moot one! But if she tests low in D3, it took me months of high doses to get to normal, and I definitely couldn't just quit my meds right away. Anyway, fwiw, I hope she gets it worked out.

 

[Tansia]

Apparently they say that . "The T3 portion of desiccated thyroid does not cross the placenta. This is also true of T3/T4 combination therapy. When women are treated with T3-containing therapies in pregnancy there is a risk that the baby could be hypothyroid even if the mother's thyroid hormone levels remain normal." I wonder if that's true though.

 

[apr]

Apparently they say that . "The T3 portion of desiccated thyroid does not cross the placenta. This is also true of T3/T4 combination therapy. When women are treated with T3-containing therapies in pregnancy there is a risk that the baby could be hypothyroid even if the mother's thyroid hormone levels remain normal." I wonder if that's true though.

Thank you both for your comments.

I don't understand how. If the t3 doesn't get through to the placenta, then that means only the t4 gets through and the baby would convert the t4 to t3, assuming it has a healthy liver which is where the conversion takes place.

And if the mother takes nothing, then she and the baby are hypo.

I don't understand this at all. Can you share where you read that Tansia?

@haidut since she is taking Tyromax can you chime in on your recommendations for taking during pregnancy? thank you

 

[Tansia]

Thank you both for your comments.

I don't understand how. If the t3 doesn't get through to the placenta, then that means only the t4 gets through and the baby would convert the t4 to t3, assuming it has a healthy liver which is where the conversion takes place.

And if the mother takes nothing, then she and the baby are hypo.

I don't understand this at all. Can you share where you read that Tansia?

@haidut since she is taking Tyromax can you chime in on your recommendations for taking during pregnancy? thank you

Hi, apologies for not expanding it further. I found the quote in the American Association Society leaflet https://www.thyroid.org/wp-content/uploads/patients/brochures/hypothyroidism_pregnancy_faq.pdf I've never heard about it before though. I was looking what are recommendations in my country and they are the same Thyroid diseases in pregnancy: guidelines of the Polish Society of Endocrinology [Choroby tarczycy w ciąży: zalecenia postępowania Polskiego Towarzystwa Endokrynologicznego] - PubMed. One of the reasoning for it (translated from Polish):

"This is because the central nervous system of the fetus
(CNS) is relatively impermeable to T3 and most fetuses
T3 comes from maternal T4 actively transported to
fetal CNS. Ratio of T4 to T3 in both dried
thyroid preparations and preparations combining both
synthetic hormones is much lower than the ratio
T4 to T3, where these hormones are secreted by
thyroid under physiological conditions. Relatively
low maternal thyroxine concentration resulting from
the use of these T3-containing formulations is related
with potential risk of insufficient maternal transfer
thyroxin to the fetal brain"

They refer to this guidelines 2012 ETA Guidelines: The Use of L-T4 + L-T3 in the Treatment of Hypothyroidism - PubMed where they say "There is insufficient data on fetal consequences of L-T4 + L-T3 combination therapy in pregnant women. Consequently, it seems prudent for safety reasons to refrain from L-T4 + L-T3 combination therapy in pregnant women and in patients with cardiac arrhythmias." To me it sound like there is not enough evidnce for it. I'm surprised Ray never mentioned this. To me it's bit weird that T3 can not go to baby's CNS but T4 can, as T3 is a smaller molecule, missing one iodine atom.

Maybe you could check with Ray on that one? I sense that there is huge disinformation here about this topic but you do not want to take a risk if that in fact is true. Let me know if you find out more!

 

[apr]

Hi, apologies for not expanding it further. I found the quote in the American Association Society leaflet https://www.thyroid.org/wp-content/uploads/patients/brochures/hypothyroidism_pregnancy_faq.pdf I've never heard about it before though. I was looking what are recommendations in my country and they are the same Thyroid diseases in pregnancy: guidelines of the Polish Society of Endocrinology [Choroby tarczycy w ciąży: zalecenia postępowania Polskiego Towarzystwa Endokrynologicznego] - PubMed. One of the reasoning for it (translated from Polish):

"This is because the central nervous system of the fetus
(CNS) is relatively impermeable to T3 and most fetuses
T3 comes from maternal T4 actively transported to
fetal CNS. Ratio of T4 to T3 in both dried
thyroid preparations and preparations combining both
synthetic hormones is much lower than the ratio
T4 to T3, where these hormones are secreted by
thyroid under physiological conditions. Relatively
low maternal thyroxine concentration resulting from
the use of these T3-containing formulations is related
with potential risk of insufficient maternal transfer
thyroxin to the fetal brain"

They refer to this guidelines 2012 ETA Guidelines: The Use of L-T4 + L-T3 in the Treatment of Hypothyroidism - PubMed where they say "There is insufficient data on fetal consequences of L-T4 + L-T3 combination therapy in pregnant women. Consequently, it seems prudent for safety reasons to refrain from L-T4 + L-T3 combination therapy in pregnant women and in patients with cardiac arrhythmias." To me it sound like there is not enough evidnce for it. I'm surprised Ray never mentioned this. To me it's bit weird that T3 can not go to baby's CNS but T4 can, as T3 is a smaller molecule, missing one iodine atom.

Maybe you could check with Ray on that one? I sense that there is huge disinformation here about this topic but you do not want to take a risk if that in fact is true. Let me know if you find out more!

Thank you for the info.

I had written Ray already before I posted here. He said those opinions are based on a study done in Madrid, that he thought was questionable.(did not expand) He also said t3 was important for conception....didn't mention if it was needed during gestation.

We usually don't follow mainstream and pretty much adhere to Peat principles however on this topic I am not sure she should....as you mentioned it may not be worth the risk. There seems to be no controversy to the fact that the mother needs much much more t4 while pregnant. She could always go back to her t3/t4 treatment after delivery.

There are millions of women on t4 only who have had perfectly healthy babies so I do not see this as an extreme measure.....however it is certainly a bummer to switch now as she was finally feeling somewhat better on Tyromax.

Was hoping @haidut would have something clear to say.

Thanks for your help!

 

[RealNeat]

Thyroid Panel During Pregnancy Accurate? Hyperstimulation?

Wife has been pregnant for about a month. I know the thyroid can be hyperstimulated during pregnancy and I'm wondering if that's because of colloids being liberated from a goiter (because of increased progesterone?) I never noticed a goiter on her but she has the lines on her neck above and...

raypeatforum.com

I have similar questions here.