Thoughts On The Ultimate One-stop Supplement?

wiggles92

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hi. I've found that when I eat liver/oysters I feel some tremendous health benefits. However, for the modern western eater these foods are generally not that palatable. I mean they're edible, nut I don't feel let's say "mentally satiated" when I consume them. Physically I feel some impressive changes. I eat these for health, like a supplement.

This got me thinking. Why not manufacture a supplement of some sort that contains a blend of the the most beneficial nutrients that we struggle to get? I never struggle to eat enough cheese or eggs or potatoes or milk or coffee or juice and so on. I don't think most people have that problem. There are however hard to find nutrients in less palatable foodstuffs.

I was thinking perhaps a thick strongly flavoured liquid would be one of the easiest ways to consume all these naturally occurring nutrients. Just down a few shots brush your teeth then off to work feeling fre$h kinda thing. You could consume it more easily than in pill form.

So the question I pose to thou peatmeisters: what would go into this ultimate supplement for optimal physical performance and longetivity?

I don't want hormones or thyroid or any of that. This is an idea for a marketable, real life product. The mainstream would be put off by that. I was thinking oysters (zinc, other trace minerals, interesting unique amino acids) lambs liver (vitamin a, trace minerals, as of yet unknown miracle anti fatigue substance) egg yolk (more vit a and minerals plus a big juicy dose of choline, seemingly very beneficial in its own right). Then perhaps some concentrated potato ketoacids? I don't know the research on k acids, if anyone is interested in telling me. Then finally I was thinking of perhaps some coffee and/or caffeine extracts for the antioxidant capacity and the rather unique oils in coffee. Perhaps some extracts from grass fed butter for the cla, nice fats, vit k? Or perhaps cheese would be a better performer here, although I imagine that could add a new level of nasty to this concoction.

As I say, it needs to just be a no nonsense strongly flavoured liquid that looks sanitised enough that you don't care that it's got such an unsavoury combination of ingredients. I see this sort of product being quite a hit, as the currenty forays into whey protein and shitty synthetic supplements are very popular. This would have genuine effectiveness due to bioavailability and just the concentration of nutrients like zinc vit a etc not found elsewhere. I can see it being used by all types- bodybuilders, old people with degenerative conditions, the sick, the health fanatics. Even probably the cigarette addict trying to quit cigs and replace lacking minerals. There's simply nothing like this out there.

Well. That's the idea. Very long winded sorry. Also I'm obviously looking to sell with decent margins. But at the same time no point in making it unaffordable if possible. Sometimes I look at a supplement and think "yeah that'd be useful for me. But it costs more than my food budget for 2 weeks so **** it". I don't really want that.
 

tara

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Much as I like the idea of a good single daily multi-vitamin - mineral - amino/keto acid supplement to cover all micronutrient needs, I think there might be a problem with interactions between different components if they are all mixed together in a liquid.
Some minerals can tend to oxidise some vitamins, and some nutrients hinder the absorption of others so that they are best eaten at separate times, etc.
If real foods are used rather than highly refined powders, then storage/freshness/preservative methods become an issue, too.

But if you could find ways to resolve those issues, I reckon there'd be a market for it.

Not everyone would buy it, since there are differences in needs and sensitivities.
Some people would probably prefer to be able to experiment with components separately.
Personally, I'd prefer no caffeine, since I don't currently handle it well.

Personally, I love liver and oysters. I enjoy liver regularly, but oysters are expensive, so not so often.
I'd probably happily wolf down a liver pate made with oysters and eggs and another Peaty amino- or keto acids you cared to add. :)
 
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wiggles92

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Thanks for the response. I think I generally have this concept of making good health products. I have a fairly deep understanding of nutrition now. I've started a couple of businesses, done ok. The way I see it, I'm in a fairly unique position to create health products that work. Most people just don't know about the benefits of some the things Ray recommends. And most people are perhaps not crazy enough to start a business haha.

I initially just had a frustration about bone broth. It was great when I made it. But it takes so much time and effort. But it is ******* healthy. I only have so much time. And I have lots of things to do. It seems a lot of Peat foods are either not that nice to the western palate, or they just take too long to make. Bone broth and potato juice in particular are inconvenient. At the same time I've been thinking about these ideas I've seen products like coconut oil have crazy increases in sales.

I'm starting to think some relatively concentrated potato juice might be a good idea. Such a product is fairly normal in Germany. But nothing in UK, US etc. And no capitalisation of the health benefits it offers. It seems to be in a similar position to coconut oil a few years back.

Has anyone got any tips on making this potato juice? Like- does cooking help it out? How will it benefit various demographics? (I think it would)

E.g.
do the concentrated ketones rev up metabolism, making it ideal for bodybuilders pre/post workout?

Do the ketones constitute a cheap, whole protein source for vegans?

What's the mineral breakdown going to look like?

Are any particular types of potatoes more worthwhile?

Should it be heated? How would I go about producing the purest, least allergenic product?

And so on...
 

tara

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Are you saying you can buy potato juice in Germany?
 
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wiggles92

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if only I could sell sunlight.....

And yes that is what I'm saying: http://www.farmaline.co.uk/health/order ... oCfxLw_wcB

I think the problem is potato juice is not what people want. Orange juice? Mmmmm delicious. Potato juice? no.

So if I could concentrate the juice down to a thick syrup, and say 3 tablespoons = 4/5 potatoes nutrition I reckon it might have some fairly potent health effects. And it's still a 'natural' supplement as such. Could perhaps just flavour it with menthol or something if the flavour is too powerful. Then could even dilute it with water. I know this sounds a little silly, but most new ideas sound retarded, until they're popular and mainstream, at which point they're not.

Would this not emulate the miraculous health benefits Ray has mentioned from giving people potato juice? Although I wonder whether things degrade when they're concentrated like that....

If you lot have any opinions I'm interested.
 
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wiggles92

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Look at Dave Asprey. He sells coffee. And MCT oil. And isolated amino acids. And whey. And people think he's the ***t. I'm not saying this potato syrup stuff is going to be sold in the same snake-oil fashion he sells his stuff. Just putting in perspective that there's clearly a thirst for supplements that better performance and longevity. He targets the younger generation who like at nutrition as part of a lifestyle. I'd be interested in that market (it's clearly a decent sized demographic) but the way I see it this syrup would be ultra high in potassium and have decent amounts of other vits and mins. It would importantly have what essentially amounts to a complete, very high quality spectrum of amino acids (in keto form). So I see it being very very useful for vegans who currently look to much poorer (and likely more problematic) protein sources such as hemp, pea, soy (the devil incarnate) and rice protein (this is probably ok, but why not potato???).

It may even be the case that this potato syrup could be added to coffee like we use sugar and collagen for at the moment. I suppose I'd have to manufacture some and see how strong the flavour was...

Anyway it's just an idea at the moment. But perhaps one that might be worthwhile. I was also toying with the idea of some sort of liver and oysters supppps. Just brainstorming. So if anyone has some product they wish had been created, but simply doesn't exist, now is the time haha
 
A

Anonymous

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I would buy a meal replacement type of product where you could just add water. That would be great!
 
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wiggles92

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Haha yes I was thinking about a better Soylent too. I think there's likely a lot of Ray Peat inspired food products that have yet to be developed and made into a commercial venture.

I suppose the next step would be for me to get in touch with people that actually understand how to create these products. I'm in the UK. Does anyone know what I should be looking for? I mean I've tried google searching it but the problem is I don't really know *what* I'm google searching for. Supplement development agency? I dunno.

Anyway, keep up the discussion guys I really think there's a lot more that should be discussed about this topic...
 

Kasper

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I think haidut knows quite a bit about this stuff.
A lot of people have done some DIY soylents, and they use website like these:
http://purebulk.com/

to get all the stuff together
 

tara

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wiggles92 said:
if only I could sell sunlight.....

And yes that is what I'm saying: http://www.farmaline.co.uk/health/order ... oCfxLw_wcB

I think the problem is potato juice is not what people want. Orange juice? Mmmmm delicious. Potato juice? no.

So if I could concentrate the juice down to a thick syrup, and say 3 tablespoons = 4/5 potatoes nutrition I reckon it might have some fairly potent health effects. And it's still a 'natural' supplement as such. Could perhaps just flavour it with menthol or something if the flavour is too powerful. Then could even dilute it with water. I know this sounds a little silly, but most new ideas sound retarded, until they're popular and mainstream, at which point they're not.

Would this not emulate the miraculous health benefits Ray has mentioned from giving people potato juice? Although I wonder whether things degrade when they're concentrated like that....

If you lot have any opinions I'm interested.

I'm not in UK, and know nothing of the market or methods there.

I don't think menthol would be a good match with potato juice (not sure, but is it estrogenic anyway?). I think you'd be better off going with savoury flavours if anything, or just leaving it unflavoured so people can add it to their own soups.

How about jars of condensed oyster chowder made with good skim milk and potato juice?
Or condensed soup made with gelatinous beef stock, potato juice, and maybe vege broth?
High milk and sugar lowish fat no gums icecream? Oops, i'm OT - that's not a supplement.
 
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Like some sort of one-stop *uhmm* all-in-one... like multi-stop... Multi-vitamin?

The issue is biodiversity and personalization. Something can only benefit us to much once it has been generalized to be "good for everyone." On the other hand, when things are broken down into their parts so we can customize it, we end up suffering from what reductionism leaves out.
 

javacody

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I've thought about trying an oyster stew made with 1% milk, potato juice, and gelatin. Maybe with some kale juice, too. Some egg yolk as a thickener as well.

Maybe a Peat based recipe book and a website that sells all peat based food/supplements?

You'd have to do it right. Fast shipping, excellent communication, and top notch customer service.
 

tara

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javacody said:
I've thought about trying an oyster stew made with 1% milk, potato juice, and gelatin. Maybe with some kale juice, too. Some egg yolk as a thickener as well.
That sounds delicious! If it works out as good as it sounds, feel free to post in the Recipe section. :)
 

jyb

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gretchen said:
That would probably be the sun. Get up, go outside.

Yeah that would probably be more important than isolated stuff like coffee, oysters... Notice how you can do all winter with 100% coffee, oysters, liver, potato juice, plenty of optimisation...yet you felt sh*t in comparison to just going outside on a nice summer day? Those supplements seem basically like second order considerations for metabolism. Light and type of food are the first order.
 

Philomath

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Careful with the Biotta drinks - I couldn't find the potato juice ingredients but every other one had lactic acid, likely as a preservative.
Ingredients: Celery Juice, Natural L(+) Lactic Acid.
That's the problem with mass producing food products... Shelf life - that's why darn near everything has citric acid, tocepherols stabilizers, gums and other assorted chemicals.
Btw, ive always thought a meal in a toothpaste tube would be efficient and cool!
 

yerrag

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Soylent ingredients: Filtered Water, Maltodextrin, Soy Protein Isolate, High Oleic Algal Oil, Isomaltulose, Canola Oil, Rice Starch, Oat Fiber, Isomaltooligosaccharide, Soy Lecithin, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Phosphate, Magnesium Phosphate, Natural & Artificial Flavors, Dipotassium Phosphate, Salt, Choline Chloride, Gellan Gum, Sodium Ascorbate, dl-alpha-Tocopheryl Acetate, Ferrous Gluconate, Vitamin A Palmitate, Zinc Sulfate, Niacinamide, Sucralose, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Copper Gluconate, Manganese Sulfate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D, Potassium Iodide, Chromium Chloride, Biotin, Folic Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Phytonadione, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin B12

A serving size, one bottle of 414 mL contains:

Fat: 21g, Carb: 37g, Protein: 20g

Fat consists of 2g Sat, 2.5g PUFA, 16g Monounsaturated
Carbs include 3g dietary fiber (1g insoluble) and 9g sugar

Total calories = 400

Comments/critique:

1. Protein.It uses soy protein isolate as its main protein source. It satisfies its goal of being vegan. If it is estrogenic, substituting it with whey concentrate may work. I prefer goat whey over cow whey, unless the whey is from type A1 cows. I would also consider using eggs. I would consider spirulina in small amounts, so as not to affect the taste. Hemp seed is high-protein, but it also has PUFAs, although it has plenty of saturated and monounsaturated oils. However, I do not know what is the Peat amino acid profile, although I imagine it would be high in glycine, proline, and alanine, and lower in tryptophan and methionine.
2. Fat. Canola oil is a PUFA. Would replace it with coconut oil. High oleic algal oil is monounsaturated oil, how much of it is permissible? Can I just go 100% virgin coconut oil instead?
3. Carbs come from maltodextrin, isomaltulose, rice starch, and isomaltooligosaccharide. Not so familiar with these except for rice starch. Replacing them with a high-fructose syrup seem to be in order. Is HFCS fine? Or just plain white sugar?
4. Fiber and Gellan Gum - Oat Fiber. Can we dispense with it?
5. Vitamins and Minerals - A lot of these are added into the formula to satisfy our daily requirements. I don't know if taking them in this blend guarantees that they will be digested and assimilated by our body. Which of these can be incorporated and which can be removed because they are not assimilated easily this way. Those vitamins and minerals can be removed, and taken in pill form, or in whole foods form.

It's easier to formulate if there is less fat in the formula, as there will be more carbs. In my experience, more carbs, especially in the form of sugars, make the formula less viscous and easier to blend, as well as make it easier to drink.

Since fruit is a main source of sugar for Peatarians, adding fruits would also help make the blend more interesting. The fruit used will depend on the season and the geographic availability.

For protein, items such as gelatin and dehydrated liver can also be incorporated.
 

Tarmander

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I had a friend try that Soylent product, the version 2 that comes in the sleek bottles. I told him, dude, there is so much estrogen in there, it will turn you into a woman. That ***t is hipster population control, stay away from it. He didn't listen. By the third day, he said he was depressed, felt like crying, and just wanted to lay around all day. He said he did not think I was serious. I got him some aspirin and he was fine the next day.

Hipster...Population...Control.
 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

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