Thoughts on Berberine?

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Any thoughts on this? I've seen nothing but good things...
 

dabdabdab

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I've read it inhibits beta oxidation. (also can prevent MUFA creation in body)
it could also decrease intestinal barrier permeability to some substances.
but it's effects on blood sugar level is questionable.
 

cupofcoffee

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@Hans mentioned berberine in his newsletter, posting it on here
Berberine has many great benefits, but this one side effect might actually prevent me from using or recommending it. It potently activates AMPK, which mimics a semi-fasted state, which is very non-ideal for regeneration and growth.

"The long-lasting phosphorylation of AMPK was associated with persistent elevation in AMP/ATP ratio and reduction in oxygen consumption. An increase in glycolysis was observed with a rise in lactic acid production. Berberine exhibited no cytotoxicity, and protected plasma membrane in L6 myotubes in the cell culture. These results suggest that berberine enhances glucose metabolism by stimulation of glycolysis, which is related to inhibition of glucose oxidation in mitochondria. Berberine-induced AMPK activation is likely a consequence of mitochondria inhibition that increases AMP/ATP ratio." (R)

It's also shown to inhibit complex I, which can significantly increase the production of ROS, and can then enhance lipid peroxidation (R). For optimal glucose oxidation to occur, you need optimal complex I function. As a sidenote, Metformin has also been shown to have similar side effects.
 

hibiskus

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I do use berberine occasionally. It is the one substance which makes me tolerate gluten better. Usually I get itchy skin and red spots if I eat gluten. But if I take berberine I do not get it. So for me it is definetely anti-inflammatory.
My actual motivation to take it was the Indoleamine 2,3-dioxygenase inhibition and the ability of it to induce the serotonin transporter.
 
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Hans

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@Hans doesnt aspirin also boost AMPK but just not to the same extent as berberine
A lot of things boost AMPK, including androgens, thyroid and food components. It's just that berberine could inhibit complex I and prevent proper glucose oxidation.
 

dabdabdab

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A lot of things boost AMPK, including androgens, thyroid and food components. It's just that berberine could inhibit complex I and prevent proper glucose oxidation.
what about anthocyanins? (grapeseed extract which reduce iron levels)
 

Hans

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what about anthocyanins? (grapeseed extract which reduce iron levels)
Most of these compounds found in small doses in food aren't such as big problem, but once they are isolated and can be taken in large doses, then their risk for side effects increases.
 

Dr. B

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A lot of things boost AMPK, including androgens, thyroid and food components. It's just that berberine could inhibit complex I and prevent proper glucose oxidation.
i also heard there is an inverse relationship between mtor and ampk? most things that boost mtor lower ampk and vice versa? i think that was on the examine website but not sure
 

Dr. B

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Most of these compounds found in small doses in food aren't such as big problem, but once they are isolated and can be taken in large doses, then their risk for side effects increases.

yeah even though it reduces iron i removed most herbal supplements like GSE and more... but the only herbal extract im uncertain of is olive leaf extract. people seem to say it has many benefits...
 

Hans

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i also heard there is an inverse relationship between mtor and ampk? most things that boost mtor lower ampk and vice versa? i think that was on the examine website but not sure
I'd say it's more complex than that. Thyroid can increase both mTOR and AMPK, so looking at either one alone is too reductionist.
 

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