Thoughts on author Alfie Kohn

Luann

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I recently read the book Punished by Rewards by Alfie Kohn. Inside, he makes the point that, when dealing with children, employees, or really anyone, initiatives and rewards and goodies and penalties aren't helpful. He makes the point that external motivators destroy creativity as well as the love of learning, working, and excelling for its own sake. It's basically a criticism of Behaviorism and B.F. Skinner.

Anyway, I learned a lot from that book. It's not just about parenting and school systems but also the societies in which we live. He has other books called No Contest: The Case Against Competition, The Brighter Side of Human Nature, and What Does it Mean to be Well Educated? After just skimming through these, I find that they also cast our current societies, methods, and systems under a pretty harsh light. Which is good, I think. So, I was wondering if anyone else here has come across his work.
 

Robert5493

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I recently read the book Punished by Rewards by Alfie Kohn. Inside, he makes the point that, when dealing with children, employees, or really anyone, initiatives and rewards and goodies and penalties aren't helpful. He makes the point that external motivators destroy creativity as well as the love of learning, working, and excelling for its own sake. It's basically a criticism of Behaviorism and B.F. Skinner.

Anyway, I learned a lot from that book. It's not just about parenting and school systems but also the societies in which we live. He has other books called No Contest: The Case Against Competition, The Brighter Side of Human Nature, and What Does it Mean to be Well Educated? After just skimming through these, I find that they also cast our current societies, methods, and systems under a pretty harsh light. Which is good, I think. So, I was wondering if anyone else here has come across his work.
I've read most of his books, and fundamentally I agree with Kohn. Both carrots and sticks are coercive, and coercion is never a beneficial way of interacting as it is enticement to behave in a way they would otherwise not freely choose to. It is a form of implementing ones will over another's, and leads to domestication syndrome of which learned helplessness is just one factor.
Others who have written in similar veins are Carl Rogers, Jean Liedloff, Joseph Ledoux, William Windle, Herman Epstein, and JC Pearce.
 
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Luann

Luann

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I am a little surprised someone else has read them!

Yeah, I like the thought that manipulating others, even for benign purposes, eventually creates learned helplessness. Haven't heard of the other authors you mention, though I like John Taylor Gatto a lot.

Kohn seems like the kind of author that traditional teachers would say is eroding like, the spirit of America. However, he promotes the idea of the individual and free will. He actually exposes Skinner for referring to himself as a "non-self."

Apparently, the case for not assigning homework was not as strong as he made it out to be. But the only other criticism I found for Kohn's work online was a blogger who was throwing the word "Jacka@@" around. There was also someone on Reddit who didn't understand how to parent at all without praise or punishment.
 

Robert5493

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Pete has spoken of Carl Rogers who is most famous or 'mainstream' of the bunch, and is still taught as relevant in psychology texts. His claim to fame is the "unconditional positive regard" requirement for meaningful interaction and effective 'therapy'.
Pete like others though, while speaking of learned helplessness, seems to stop short of speaking about the full implications of domestication.
Gatto is a great introduction to the underpinnings of education/indoctrination/programming but is just scratching the surface.
Kohn and the others certainly do "erode the spirit of America" (as well as all nation states post 'civilization',) where that spirit is summed as work ethic, productivity, efficiency and progress are beneficial. Most never stop to question where these particular ideals originated, and why they are necessary in a hierarchical system because it is so ingrained into societies. Even our language incorporates these ideals. ie. "Earn a living" . Following from this is the continuous erosion of self reliance and increasing penetration of social systems into peoples lives, because autonomous humans are ungovernable as neither carrots nor sticks are effective.
James C. Scott, in 'Seeing Like a State', and 'the Art of Not Being Governened' points out the discontinuities, incongruities and negatives in this ontology.

What outcome is the assigned homework being measured against?

Liedloffs "The Continuum Concept" is probably the most readable introduction to the topic of what an undomesticated Homo Sapiens actually behaves like. Highly recommended.
 

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