Thoughts On 5ar And Post Finasteride Syndrome

jacknap

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Yeah, I'm aware of the other benefits of fasting but don't see it how it plays a role in PFS, maybe with the new guys approach is terms of progesterone receptors that could be it. If you read more logs on SS a lot of people didn't get benefits from fasting or returned to baseline again when eating.

Why would you pay 5000 just to fast, people do it all the time unsupervised

cause I have low body % and I'm strong minded so I fear that I'll push through the point where it's a healing crisis vs. actual damage.
the SS people who returned to baseline I have no seen a case where they full did what CD said

they were mostly half **** attemps eg) 10 day water fast (not the 14 he said), 10 day juice feasts, 5 day water fasts. cd eliminated like 10 symptoms from his water fast. I already got rid of like 10 symptoms through following his protocol without the fasting. the fasting seems huge component if you look at his threads from PH he wasn't getting anywhere till he fasted.

ie. 14-21 days water fast or more. introduce foods slowly for half length of the fast ie 14day water fast 7 days reintroduction (2 days juice, 2 days cooked vegetables, 1 day add protein, one day add nuts, one day add dairy etc).

think a safe way to do it unsupervised is have the goal of 14-21 days and if the pain becomes too much switch to juice feast for the rest of the days.

and yeah losing muscle sucks but there's muscle memory, you'll get it back 10x faster than it took for you to gain it in the first place. probably around 3 months to get back to current level. I'd rather do it now than later than continue to build muscle on the wrong foundation.

you and I both seem to like to know the 'why' we're doing things whereas cd is pure action oriented which I think leaves us frustrated at times and hesitant to do risky parts of the protocol.
 

TubZy

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cause I have low body % and I'm strong minded so I fear that I'll push through the point where it's a healing crisis vs. actual damage.
the SS people who returned to baseline I have no seen a case where they full did what CD said

they were mostly half **** attemps eg) 10 day water fast (not the 14 he said), 10 day juice feasts, 5 day water fasts. cd eliminated like 10 symptoms from his water fast. I already got rid of like 10 symptoms through following his protocol without the fasting. the fasting seems huge component if you look at his threads from PH he wasn't getting anywhere till he fasted.

ie. 14-21 days water fast or more. introduce foods slowly for half length of the fast ie 14day water fast 7 days reintroduction (2 days juice, 2 days cooked vegetables, 1 day add protein, one day add nuts, one day add dairy etc).

think a safe way to do it unsupervised is have the goal of 14-21 days and if the pain becomes too much switch to juice feast for the rest of the days.

and yeah losing muscle sucks but there's muscle memory, you'll get it back 10x faster than it took for you to gain it in the first place. probably around 3 months to get back to current level. I'd rather do it now than later than continue to build muscle on the wrong foundation.

you and I both seem to like to know the 'why' we're doing things whereas cd is pure action oriented which I think leaves us frustrated at times and hesitant to do risky parts of the protocol.

I have PMs of people who logged it (1 of them being recovered already as well) from SS saying fasting didn't help or wasnt necessary, but that is why I'm personally not convinced yet. If you read my other posts on there I was never an advocate of fasting either and explained why in a detailed post regarding why after trying myself and being in deep ketosis.

I would say it may make more sense now trying to add zinc at the end of fasting to upregulate receptors given some of the new info that was just introduced on the other thread here.
 

jacknap

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I have PMs of people who logged it (1 of them being recovered already as well) from SS saying fasting didn't help or wasnt necessary, but that is why I'm personally not convinced yet. If you read my other posts on there I was never an advocate of fasting either and explained why in a detailed post regarding why.

I would say it may make more sense now trying to add zinc at the end of fasting to upregulate receptors given some of the new info that was just introduced on the other thread here.

yeah so what's this guys angle on protocol is it basically just cdnuts fasting style + zinc at the end? how much zinc we talking? how long?
 

TubZy

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yeah so what's this guys angle on protocol is it basically just cdnuts fasting style + zinc at the end?

What is CD nuts fasting style versus regular fasting?

The other thread just states basically a 10 day water fast followed by 30mg of zinc the following day for a month to upregulate receptors. He listed all the methods in the other thread, the clomid, dostinex and zinc method seems to be the most credible at this point so that is why most people are trying that.
 

jacknap

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sorry bad wording cdnuts style is regular style lol thanks sorry for being redundant just joined the forum so not super good at navigating.
 

jacknap

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one thing I'm wondering is using zinc RIGHT after coming off the water fast is kinda dicey no? cuz aren't we supposed to ease into foods right after fasting? zinc would be almost like a stone in the kidneys no?
 

REOSIRENS

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  • "Large scale human studies have provided overwhelming evidence that whenever drugs(finasteride/statins*), including the unsaturated oils(fish oil is being used to fight hairloss*), were used to lower serum cholesterol, mortality increased, from a variety of causes including accidents, but mainly from cancer. "
Finasteride burns cholesterol like statins do...and when you stop using these drugs your Cholesterol production ramp up(protection) but remains still high because these harmful drugs destroy (decrease) levels of protective hormones(Triiodothyronine/C02/Progesterone) that work together with cholesterol


"Since the l930s, it has been clearly established that suppression of the thyroid raises serum cholesterol (while increasing mortality from infections, cancer, and heart disease), while restoring the thyroid hormone brings cholesterol down to normal. In this situation, however, thyroid isn't suppressing the synthesis of cholesterol, but rather is promoting its use to form hormones and bile salts. "
Dr Raymond Peat

Finasteride suppress the synthesis of cholesterol...same way statins do

*My words
 
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Aztec

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For sure I think the predominate problem is 5ar downregulation in the brain. Like I said any attempts to increase DHT peripherally makes me worse. I read a post from a guy on propecia help who claimed Proviron 'shrunk his ****'. I think there are varying degrees of severity with PFS. The worst being when it is downregulated in the Brain. My biggest improvements so far have come from 'slamming' the GABAA receptor with high doses of Nicotinamide, and valium. Every aspect of my condition improved, mental and physical. Libido, Brainfog, memory, mood. My muscles tightened, I started to sweat again, I started to get spontaneous erections, temperature in my **** increased, my shrinkage reversed. Whereas creatine, and sorghum made me dramatically worse. Shrunk my **** ect. Looking at countless posts from propeciahelp, this is not uncommon. This is a huge clue that the problem resides in the brain.
What if you slam a GABA supplement instead?
 
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bloom

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What if you slam a GABA supplement instead?
I've taken high doses of gaba, never did much. It would be similar to taking high doses of a benzodiazepine, as far as I know no one has recovered in this way
 

Aztec

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I've taken high doses of gaba, never did much. It would be similar to taking high doses of a benzodiazepine, as far as I know no one has recovered in this way
Bloom, what have you found to be the most helpful natural product or method for improving erections at night and morning?
 
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bloom

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Bloom, what have you found to be the most helpful natural product or method for improving erections at night and morning?
Well Nicotinamide for one thing. 1-3grams a day. There was a huge discussion as to why nicotinamide may be helpful for PFS on 'pfs, 5ar, and the brain' thread. There's speculation it may increase the gene expression of 5ar. There is also some evidence it's a GABA A receptor agonist. Also Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (b6) has been very helpful.

Androgen hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases under the influence of pyridoxine derivatives. - PubMed - NCBI

The metabolism of testosterone in the rat ventral prostate, anterior pituitary, basal hypothalamus and amygdala was studied in vitro under the influence of vitamin B6 compounds.

Pyridoxine hydrochloride significantly increased the activity of 5 alpha-R, 3 alpha- and 17 beta-HSD, but pyridoxal hydrochloride had an inhibitory influence on 5 alpha-R and showed no effect on 3 alpha-HSD activity at the prostate level.

As well as vitamin C, there's evidence showing that it increases oxytocin. And that oxytocin positively regulates the gene expression of 5ar1, the studies are on the OP of the 'post finasteride syndrome, and the 5ar1 and 5ar2 isoenzymes' thread.
 

Aztec

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Thanks a lot Bloom. I will purchase Nicotinamide, Vitamin B 6, and vitamin C from Vitamin Shoppe. How much vitamin B6 ans vitamin C would you recommend I consume daily?
 

Aztec

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Well Nicotinamide for one thing. 1-3grams a day. There was a huge discussion as to why nicotinamide may be helpful for PFS on 'pfs, 5ar, and the brain' thread. There's speculation it may increase the gene expression of 5ar. There is also some evidence it's a GABA A receptor agonist. Also Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (b6) has been very helpful.
Just posted below.
Androgen hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases under the influence of pyridoxine derivatives. - PubMed - NCBI





As well as vitamin C, there's evidence showing that it increases oxytocin. And that oxytocin positively regulates the gene expression of 5ar1, the studies are on the OP of the 'post finasteride syndrome, and the 5ar1 and 5ar2 isoenzymes' thread.
 
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bloom

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Thanks a lot Bloom. I will purchase Nicotinamide, Vitamin B 6, and vitamin C from Vitamin Shoppe. How much vitamin B6 ans vutamin C would you recommend I consume daily?
I've been taking 200mg of b6, just watch out for peripheral neuropathy, should be reversed when b6 ceased if you develop it. I also take I gram of liposomal vitamin c
 

Aztec

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I've been taking 200mg of b6, just watch out for peripheral neuropathy, should be reversed when b6 ceased if you develop it. I also take I gram of liposomal vitamin c
Much appreciated Bloom, I will give 200 mg of B6 daily and 1 gram of Vitamin C liposomal a try :) Could you please explain what peripheral neuropathy is and how you exeperienced it? This is very helpful information.
 

sladerunner69

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I've been taking 200mg of b6, just watch out for peripheral neuropathy, should be reversed when b6 ceased if you develop it. I also take I gram of liposomal vitamin c

Do you think one could develop neuropathy from nicotinimide? I have been having issues with nerves ringling and annoying me across my neck, shoulders, head, and sometimes arms and legs. I think it is probably a strained muscle in my back or maybe the increased humidity of the weather but Im uncertain.
 

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