Thoughts On 5ar And Post Finasteride Syndrome

[TubZy]

It says it increases "P" and "17OH-(rate of change)^5P" and I'm nto exactly sure what that means. It also increase dhea which is already high... and look at this "In contrast, the inhibitory effect of etifoxine on DHP biosynthesis was only detectable 2 h after the onset of the incubation period"... I guess decreases dhp? That would not be good I dont think. And increases THP, don't know what that is again.

Honestly it's hard to make sense because there isn't a key.

Did you click on the graph from the reddit link it brings you to the full study with pictures and keys for everything along with identifying all the acronyms? Scroll through the figures section and you can see everything at the link of the bottom of this post.

Increasing DHEA is fine if other neurosteroids increase with it, at least in my case. I could handle very small amounts of DHEA with caffeine or progesterone with no issues, but not when taken alone and I assume in the case with etifoxine it increases DHEA in the brain.

The Non-Benzodiazepine Anxiolytic Drug Etifoxine Causes a Rapid, Receptor-Independent Stimulation of Neurosteroid Biosynthesis

 

[Cydanic]

Yeah I know lol.

Well, I'm only on thyroid at the moment, so to start I will just be using etifoxine and thyroid, and will be dosing up etifoxine based on how I feel (or until I feel satisfied). Also etifoxine also regenerates nerves, so staying on it longer term would probably be good to and T3 also regenerates nerves. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jtr/2013/648395/

T3 increases 5AR in the body and brain so it could work in synergy with the etifoxine. Hypothyroid State Reduces AR Expression And 5-ar

I got naltrexone yesterday but most likely going to stop it once etifoxine gets here. I don't think it is necessary to cycle any of those besides 5a-dhp possibly due to the tolerance to allopreg that was shown. Bloom has been on niacinamide for a long time now consistently and the results are still there. Caffeine you can build a tolerance too, but at the same time it still can exert its effects on 5AR in the brain regardless if you "feel" the strong dopamine effect.

I usually dose my t3/4 twice a day, but based on what you said I might just get some t3 and dose that more often.

Interesting what you said about t3 regenerating nerves...I actually had a dental implant put in right before I crashed, while I was definitely hypo, and I've had long lasting numbness from nerve damage caused by the implant in my jaw. I've had a few different docs look at it and they said I shouldn't have had numbness to the extent that I have.

 

[TubZy]

I usually dose my t3/4 twice a day, but based on what you said I might just get some t3 and dose that more often.

Interesting what you said about t3 regenerating nerves...I actually had a dental implant put in right before I crashed, while I was definitely hypo, and I've had long lasting numbness from nerve damage caused by the implant in my jaw. I've had a few different docs look at it and they said I shouldn't have had numbness to the extent that I have.

You use NDT right? Which one?

I found a combo of synethic T4 and T3 to work better than just T3 alone. I had to dose T3 multiple times a day or else I would like crash in throughout the day. I get the same beneficial results from T3 only, but just doing 40mcg of T4 and 12mcg of T3 once in the morning after breakfast and the effect lasts all day with no crash.

 

[TubZy]

Yep...my stomach feels bloated all day, except from when I wake up to around 10am. I feel my abs are trying to come out of my skin. They protrude all the time. I know it is probably from all the inflammation from this pfs crap. And it is the same way when I water fast for 3/4 days too. very frustrating when I see pictures of myself and I look 20 lbs heavier but have the same bf%. it's nuts.

When the stress response is eliminated or reduced, my digestion fixes almost immediately.

Thyroid, niacinamide, 5a-dhp, progesterone etc. The biggest improvement was with thyroid though.

 

[Cydanic]

You use NDT right? Which one?

I found a combo of synethic T4 and T3 to work better than just T3 alone. I had to dose T3 multiple times a day or else I would like crash in throughout the day. I get the same beneficial results from T3 only, but just doing 40mcg of T4 and 12mcg of T3 once in the morning after breakfast and the effect lasts all day with no crash.

Yes, at my worst my tsh was 30 while I was trying to do keto. After starting meds it was 1.2

I take Nature Throid 1.5 grain/97.5 mg. Each tablet is 13.5 mcg T3 and 57 mcg T4
I take one right as I wake up, and usually 1/5th to 1/2 tab at lunchtime.

I'm always curious the importance of doing everything peat related thats pro-thyroid while taking supplemental thyroid as well.

I'm surprised your dose is close to mine considering my thyroid is pretty messed up on its own.

 

[Gibson2k3]

When the stress response is eliminated or reduced, my digestion fixes almost immediately.

Thyroid, niacinamide, 5a-dhp, progesterone etc. The biggest improvement was with thyroid though.

Tubzy...So I've been on t3 the last 3.5 weeks at 12.5mcg. A lot of ups and downs but I upped the dose to 25mcg yesterday on top of the 12.5 mcg. Didn't really feel that good at all but today decided to cycle off and I have felt amazing. A lot sharper mentally. More zest. Not sure if this is a fluke but Hoping this is a new baseline.

 

[TubZy]

Tubzy...So I've been on t3 the last 3.5 weeks at 12.5mcg. A lot of ups and downs but I upped the dose to 25mcg yesterday on top of the 12.5 mcg. Didn't really feel that good at all but today decided to cycle off and I have felt amazing. A lot sharper mentally. More zest. Not sure if this is a fluke but Hoping this is a new baseline.

Do you have access to T4? Maybe tyromix? Trying adding in both T4 and T3, that is what really helped me and stabilized me out. T3 works, it is just short lived in my experience. Too much T3 can also cause you to feel worse as well (it can convert to RT3 and could also set a stress response off it not enough sugar).

 

[TubZy]

Yes, at my worst my tsh was 30 while I was trying to do keto. After starting meds it was 1.2

I take Nature Throid 1.5 grain/97.5 mg. Each tablet is 13.5 mcg T3 and 57 mcg T4
I take one right as I wake up, and usually 1/5th to 1/2 tab at lunchtime.

I'm always curious the importance of doing everything peat related thats pro-thyroid while taking supplemental thyroid as well.

I'm surprised your dose is close to mine considering my thyroid is pretty messed up on its own.

I got this dose from Peat. And to continue doing everything pro metabolic just eat fruits, sugars, milk, OJ etc with plenty of protein (80g + a day) and avoid PUFA as much as possible.

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

Since T3 has a short half life, it should be taken frequently. If the liver isn't producing a noticeable amount of T3, it is usually helpful to take a few micorgrams per hour. Since it restores respiration and metabolic efficiency very quickly, it isn't usually necessary to take it every hour or two, but until normal temperature and pulse have been achieved and stabilized, sometimes it's necessary to take it four or more times during the day. T4 acts by being changed to T3, so it tends to accumulate in the body, and on a given dose, usually reaches a steady concentration after about two weeks.

An effective way to use supplements is to take a combination T4-T3 dose, e.g., 40 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3 once a day, and to use a few mcg of T3 at other times in the day. Keeping a 14-day chart of pulse rate and temperature allows you to see whether the dose is producing the desired response. If the figures aren't increasing at all after a few days, the dose can be increased, until a gradual daily increment can be seen, moving toward the goal at the rate of about 1/14 per day

 

[Gibson2k3]

Do you have access to T4? Maybe tyromix? Trying adding in both T4 and T3, that is what really helped me and stabilized me out. T3 works, it is just short lived in my experience. Too much T3 can also cause you to feel worse as well (it can convert to RT3 and could also set a stress response off it not enough sugar).

Yeah. That makes sense. No, Not yet. I get my nature thyroid by erfa in one or two weeks. It is in transit.

 

[Cydanic]

I got this dose from Peat. And to continue doing everything pro metabolic just eat fruits, sugars, milk, OJ etc with plenty of protein (80g + a day) and avoid PUFA as much as possible.

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

Since T3 has a short half life, it should be taken frequently. If the liver isn't producing a noticeable amount of T3, it is usually helpful to take a few micorgrams per hour. Since it restores respiration and metabolic efficiency very quickly, it isn't usually necessary to take it every hour or two, but until normal temperature and pulse have been achieved and stabilized, sometimes it's necessary to take it four or more times during the day. T4 acts by being changed to T3, so it tends to accumulate in the body, and on a given dose, usually reaches a steady concentration after about two weeks.

An effective way to use supplements is to take a combination T4-T3 dose, e.g., 40 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3 once a day, and to use a few mcg of T3 at other times in the day. Keeping a 14-day chart of pulse rate and temperature allows you to see whether the dose is producing the desired response. If the figures aren't increasing at all after a few days, the dose can be increased, until a gradual daily increment can be seen, moving toward the goal at the rate of about 1/14 per day

I think I might start dosing t3/4 around 3-4 times per day in that case. In our situation going a little on the hyper thyroid side is definitely better.

Ideally maybe taking some before every meal?

 

[bloom]

I should add i've been getting good results from Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, doses ranging from 12.5-50mg. The use was inspired by this study:

Androgen hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases under the influence of pyridoxine derivatives. - PubMed - NCBI

The metabolism of testosterone in the rat ventral prostate, anterior pituitary, basal hypothalamus and amygdala was studied in vitro under the influence of vitamin B6 compounds

Pyridoxine hydrochloride significantly increased the activity of 5 alpha-R, 3 alpha- and 17 beta-HSD, but pyridoxal hydrochloride had an inhibitory influence on 5 alpha-R and showed no effect on 3 alpha-HSD activity at the prostate level. Male rat anterior pituitary, basal hypothalamus or amygdala incubated with pyridoxal phosphate and pyridoxal hydrochloride showed modified enzymatic activities.

 

[bloom]

B6 is also a crucial cofactor in the last step of dopamine, GABA synthesis.

 

[5 alpha victim]

I feel the strss in my stomach all tge time, I have been doing relaxation exercises at night to lowet it, that's all I can do at thjs point, anything I eat I am constipated pretty much and I just confine retaining water and gaining weight, I look fat and am going bald, ******* wonderful. I thin my skin is turning Yellow as well and I have pain in mu nipples now from gyno now.

I am in an unbelievably atrwaaed state I cannot get out of. Welcome to pfs.

I don't know if you seen my post in your old constispaton thread but I have been dealing with extremely severe constipation as well from PFS. Some of the stuff I picked up along the way from my own imagination and from doctors that worked for me:

Start of protocol. goal get everything moving.

get everything moving either by cycling stimulant laxatives in what ever fashion you come up with. (don't take them for any more than three days at a time)

or by putting one entire bottle of Mirlax (one of the small bottles) in a gallon water jug and drinking the whole gallon.

every day stuff. after you done with getting everything moving keep everything going by

1) Digestive Enzymes
2) Powder magnesium
3) Stool softener p i L L s. no more 3 per day
4) Probiotics. cycle them. one month in than one month off. when you start your next cycle get a different brand.
5) Mirlax. As much as you need but obviously the goal is to find the most effective dose while taking the least amount as possible for the long term

and honestly dude go to the doctor and get a Colonoscopy ordered...it sucks but I'm getting one soon. I should have years ago

 

[5 alpha victim]

When the stress response is eliminated or reduced, my digestion fixes almost immediately.

Thyroid, niacinamide, 5a-dhp, progesterone etc. The biggest improvement was with thyroid though.

I knew it. There is nothing wrong with our guts. We just can't handle stress properly which i really think is the cause of the digestive issues.

 

[Gibson2k3]

I knew it. There is nothing wrong with our guts. We just can't handle stress properly which i really think is the cause of the digestive issues.

I also think estrogen plays a key role as well.

 

[sladerunner69]

B6 is also a crucial cofactor in the last step of dopamine, GABA synthesis.

Is there a relation between dopamine and GABA? I took some tyrosine which helps produce dopamine supposedly, and felt a nice boost from it but it is also implicates in mania.

 

[TubZy]

I should add i've been getting good results from Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, doses ranging from 12.5-50mg. The use was inspired by this study:

Androgen hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases under the influence of pyridoxine derivatives. - PubMed - NCBI

I tried it at higher doses (50mg+) and didn't notice much besides some sleepiness, what do you notice at lower doses?

 

[TubZy]

I knew it. There is nothing wrong with our guts. We just can't handle stress properly which i really think is the cause of the digestive issues.

Yup, if you look into the neurosteroids specifically allopreg, it activates the bile receptor in the gut and is majorly responsible for metabolism and digestion (and increases thyroid). And not to mention the cortisol spikes that would also screw up digestion in itself by not having GABA-A available to modulate the stress response since allopreg is depleted and can't act on the receptor.

How Pregnenolone And Progesterone Raise Metabolism

"Allopregnanolone, along with several other neurosteroids, has been found to activate the G protein-coupled bile acid receptor (GPBAR1, or TGR5)."

"...One effect of this receptor is to activate deiodinases which convert the prohormone thyroxine (T4) to the active hormone triiodothyronine (T3). T3 in turn activates the thyroid hormone receptor which increases metabolic rate.[3][4]"

 

[mayweatherking]

I don't know if you seen my post in your old constispaton thread but I have been dealing with extremely severe constipation as well from PFS. Some of the stuff I picked up along the way from my own imagination and from doctors that worked for me:

Start of protocol. goal get everything moving.

get everything moving either by cycling stimulant laxatives in what ever fashion you come up with. (don't take them for any more than three days at a time)

or by putting one entire bottle of Mirlax (one of the small bottles) in a gallon water jug and drinking the whole gallon.

every day stuff. after you done with getting everything moving keep everything going by

1) Digestive Enzymes
2) Powder magnesium
3) Stool softener p i L L s. no more 3 per day
4) Probiotics. cycle them. one month in than one month off. when you start your next cycle get a different brand.
5) Mirlax. As much as you need but obviously the goal is to find the most effective dose while taking the least amount as possible for the long term

and honestly dude go to the doctor and get a Colonoscopy ordered...it sucks but I'm getting one soon. I should have years ago

Magnesium gives me horrible hemorrhoids I cant use it, I've been doing both coffee and vegetable broth for magnesium, but I dont think it's a magnesium issue, I believe it is an estrogen issue, im loading up on vit e now.

I might do the digestive enzymes, but every thing else mentioned seem to be big no nos? I've tried probiotics and didn't notice anything, I even bought the 100 or 150 dollar one and didn't notice anything.

I might try Miramax but damn man.. im in seriously bad shape with this

Its like the exact same Circle happens I can tell you, once i do manage to finally goto the bathroom, my temperature massively increases amd i start sweating like crazy, it's like i go into a hyperthyroid state almost, im not sure why but it has happened many times all ready, I try to catch it by eating heavy nutrient foods, but I think it is burning me out when it happens.

I'm working on doing more vit E now

 

[mayweatherking]

I don't know if you seen my post in your old constispaton thread but I have been dealing with extremely severe constipation as well from PFS. Some of the stuff I picked up along the way from my own imagination and from doctors that worked for me:

Start of protocol. goal get everything moving.

get everything moving either by cycling stimulant laxatives in what ever fashion you come up with. (don't take them for any more than three days at a time)

or by putting one entire bottle of Mirlax (one of the small bottles) in a gallon water jug and drinking the whole gallon.

every day stuff. after you done with getting everything moving keep everything going by

1) Digestive Enzymes
2) Powder magnesium
3) Stool softener p i L L s. no more 3 per day
4) Probiotics. cycle them. one month in than one month off. when you start your next cycle get a different brand.
5) Mirlax. As much as you need but obviously the goal is to find the most effective dose while taking the least amount as possible for the long term

and honestly dude go to the doctor and get a Colonoscopy ordered...it sucks but I'm getting one soon. I should have years ago

Are u not suffering from constipation anymore?