Thoughts & Concerns On Retinyl Acetate

[charlie]

[ref]Ella[/ref], any thoughts on retinyl acetate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinyl_acetate

 

[Ella]

EstroBan - dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Charlie, Yes I do have concerns about the retinyl esters. Retinol and the Retinyl acetates use different pathways. Retinol is transported by retinol binding protein for delivery into cells which is a tightly regulated process where the acetate and palmitate moiety have access into all cells indiscriminantly. Which makes retinol in milk a safe form. I would stay away from milks that have been fortified with synthetic forms. Even with liver, I said a little bit goes a long way and as Ray advises needs to be titrated to the individual. It does scare me though, because people think if a little liver is good, then a lot must be better. I wish there was an easy way to determine Vitamin A repleteness and there is many variables involved. I am still trying to work out my ideal levels but I think, immunity, skin, eyes, acne and dandruff are good places to start. It is a safe bet that people are going to be deficient if they have been following starvation and other fad diets. Look at what sort of diet grandmother had. If there was a lack of retinol in her diet, then it is a sure bet you will be suffering the consequences. I think if you are following recommendations from WAPF then you probably need to ease off and the same with paleo because it is so heavily based on animal derived foods. When it comes to supplementation I am super conservative at the point of being paranoid. I am not a cowboy, I be the very last one to try something new and never the first. Unless you have major digestive issues then you should get all you need from the variety of foods we have access to. I am someone that likes to test to see if there is truly a deficiency or imbalance. If food can have such powerful influence and it comes prepacked with all its cofactors and synergistic minerals and vitamins, then you can only imagine the implications when we fool around with isolated nutrients. Peat's right, it is hard to find supplements and meds, anything that is manufactured that is not adulterated with excipients in some way. I find it a joke with the alt MD and naturapaths. They give their clients neverending lists of supplements then recommend chelation therapy to rid them of their heavy metals and fungal metabolites. That's right all those frickin detoxes they get them to do. They are told to filter their water, decontaminate their houses, get rid of the almalgam fillings and for god sake don't eat that toxic sugar. The poor sick patient is being contaminated by the very person who supposed heal them with heavy metals, industrial chemicals and mycotoxins from the supplements they're given. What is even sadder is that the poor patient has to fork out their hard earned money to be poisoned. I already have enough enemies and I don't want to make more. I actually have a gag order placed one me so I better be careful in what I say. I wonder how many of us are out there that are silenced by these big corporate bullies?
I have attached a couple of papers. One is on chicks from 1975 and the other is a recent review which is quite dense but well worth the read. You can then decide for yourself whether it is safe for your situation.

The following sentenced from Vitamin A Transport Mechanism 2015 paper echos my sentiments.
"An excessive dose of vitamin A is toxic only when vitamin A in the circulation is presented to cells in a form other than bound to RBP, such as in retinyl esters [23].



Ray may have a different perspective and he has been around a longer than me and has a deeper and more thorough knowledge than me. He would be the go to guy to ask.

 

[Wagner83]

The following sentenced from Vitamin A Transport Mechanism 2015 paper echos my sentiments.
"An excessive dose of vitamin A is toxic only when vitamin A in the circulation is presented to cells in a form other than bound to RBP, such as in retinyl esters [23].



Ray may have a different perspective and he has been around a longer than me and has a deeper and more thorough knowledge than me. He would be the go to guy to ask.

Some guys like MUFASA literally bathed in it for months and improved their health a lot, same for lucenzo01, it's odd, maybe RBP has something to do with it.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...eostasis_with_Nonoccupational_Exposure_to_DDT

Combined impairment of nutritional parameters and thyroid homeostasis in mildly iodine-deficient children. - PubMed - NCBI

Thyroid homeostasis and retinol circulating complex relationships in a severe iodine-deficient area of Senegal. - PubMed - NCBI

Perhaps those go well with Ray's words on increased thyroid activity requiring more vitamin A, or at least the body deals with it in a better fashion.

 

[haidut]

EstroBan - dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Charlie, Yes I do have concerns about the retinyl esters. Retinol and the Retinyl acetates use different pathways. Retinol is transported by retinol binding protein for delivery into cells which is a tightly regulated process where the acetate and palmitate moiety have access into all cells indiscriminantly. Which makes retinol in milk a safe form. I would stay away from milks that have been fortified with synthetic forms. Even with liver, I said a little bit goes a long way and as Ray advises needs to be titrated to the individual. It does scare me though, because people think if a little liver is good, then a lot must be better. I wish there was an easy way to determine Vitamin A repleteness and there is many variables involved. I am still trying to work out my ideal levels but I think, immunity, skin, eyes, acne and dandruff are good places to start. It is a safe bet that people are going to be deficient if they have been following starvation and other fad diets. Look at what sort of diet grandmother had. If there was a lack of retinol in her diet, then it is a sure bet you will be suffering the consequences. I think if you are following recommendations from WAPF then you probably need to ease off and the same with paleo because it is so heavily based on animal derived foods. When it comes to supplementation I am super conservative at the point of being paranoid. I am not a cowboy, I be the very last one to try something new and never the first. Unless you have major digestive issues then you should get all you need from the variety of foods we have access to. I am someone that likes to test to see if there is truly a deficiency or imbalance. If food can have such powerful influence and it comes prepacked with all its cofactors and synergistic minerals and vitamins, then you can only imagine the implications when we fool around with isolated nutrients. Peat's right, it is hard to find supplements and meds, anything that is manufactured that is not adulterated with excipients in some way. I find it a joke with the alt MD and naturapaths. They give their clients neverending lists of supplements then recommend chelation therapy to rid them of their heavy metals and fungal metabolites. That's right all those frickin detoxes they get them to do. They are told to filter their water, decontaminate their houses, get rid of the almalgam fillings and for god sake don't eat that toxic sugar. The poor sick patient is being contaminated by the very person who supposed heal them with heavy metals, industrial chemicals and mycotoxins from the supplements they're given. What is even sadder is that the poor patient has to fork out their hard earned money to be poisoned. I already have enough enemies and I don't want to make more. I actually have a gag order placed one me so I better be careful in what I say. I wonder how many of us are out there that are silenced by these big corporate bullies?
I have attached a couple of papers. One is on chicks from 1975 and the other is a recent review which is quite dense but well worth the read. You can then decide for yourself whether it is safe for your situation.

The following sentenced from Vitamin A Transport Mechanism 2015 paper echos my sentiments.
"An excessive dose of vitamin A is toxic only when vitamin A in the circulation is presented to cells in a form other than bound to RBP, such as in retinyl esters [23].



Ray may have a different perspective and he has been around a longer than me and has a deeper and more thorough knowledge than me. He would be the go to guy to ask.

@charlie, this may also interest you as well.

Neither retinyl acetate not retinyl palmitate survive in circulation for long. In fact, both of them get hydrolyzed when ingested (or applied topically) to retinol and acetate/palmitate and then enter the circulation as free retinol while the acetate/palmitate get metabolized as energetic precursors. Peat has been asked multiple times about the palmitate/acetate and said those are fine and this is what he uses himself. Pure retinol is very unstable and would not survive for long in free form to be used as a supplement. @Amazoniac posted a few studies on that as well. I actually had interest in selling pure retinol but Amazoniac's studies dissuaded me. The palmitate ester may be a bit better for replenishing stores as that is the preferred storage form for storing into the liver.

 

[DrJ]

I recently changed my daily retinyl palmitate dose for the equivalent dose in retinyl acetate. I had to stop and change back to the palmitate after a week because all my dry skin symptoms started coming back rapidly. So for me, retinyl acetate does not seem to work so well.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I recently changed my daily retinyl palmitate dose for the equivalent dose in retinyl acetate. I had to stop and change back to the palmitate after a week because all my dry skin symptoms started coming back rapidly. So for me, retinyl acetate does not seem to work so well.

It is more potent. Maybe you can try to lower the dose.

 

[DrJ]

It is more potent. Maybe you can try to lower the dose.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me b/c I get the same symptoms I get as when I take no vitamin A. But I'm game. Would you know the potency factor? Reduce by factor 2? 4? etc...

 

[Tristan Loscha]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me b/c I get the same symptoms I get as when I take no vitamin A. But I'm game. Would you know the potency factor? Reduce by factor 2? 4? etc...

I knew it, but can't remember. Authors also weren't completely sure and reported that 'toxicity' sets in earlier; but maybe 4-6fold difference? It is weird, because acetate and palmitate both get deesterified and reesterified with palmitate.

 

[GorillaHead]

This vitamin A thing is weird. Ive been having great effects with it but also a serious side effect joint pain.

i dont think vitamin D solves this issue.

if ella is correct about her theory then shes basically saying that when the body doesnt control where vitamin A goes. Damage occurs. So then how does one get vitamin A to go where it needs without it say affecting bones.