Those Self Treating With NDT, How Do You Work With Your Doctor?

CanadianPerson

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I was ill a few months ago and went to the hospital where the doc decided to test my TSH based on my symptoms and it was 5.77. My family doctor saw the results and said TSH could fluctuate so to do another test a few months later and if it didn't get better, she would put me on synthroid. After that I was taking raw thyroid by natural sources(glandular) and felt a little better. I got my followup blood test this week and I stopped taking the raw thyroid about 3 days before the test.

The following are my latest results:
Vitamin B12 625 (138-652)
Ferritin 51 (5-272)

Sodium 142 (135-145)
Potassium 4.4 (3.5-5.2)
Creatinine 64 (50-100)
Glomerular Filtration Rate (eGFR) 117


[TSH] 12.6 (0.32-4.00)
[Free T4] 10 (9-19)
[Free T3] 3.8 (3.1-6.2)
Thyroglobulin Antibody 38 < 40
Thyroperoxidase Antibody 24 < 35

I see on this forum that many of you use NDT with lower levels of TSH than this and without a diagnosis from your doctor. I already bought Thiroyd a few days ago and am still waiting on it. How do you guys start taking it and inform your doctor about what you are doing? What do you tell them when self treating and need to get a blood test in 4-6 weeks? The reason I decided to take thiroyd is because I won't take synthroid, and even if my doctor agreed to prescribing a canadian brand of ndt, I am not covered by insurance and it is too expensive.

Thanks.
 

DaveFoster

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Say, "Hey, so I'm taking hormones I bought off the internet, and if you don't give me thyroid tests, and I have a heart attack, I'll sue you for patient neglect and malpractice."
 

Regina

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What's weird is talking to my Doctor zaps me right back to Catholic School. I hear myself lying in this flat tone.
 

x-ray peat

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Say, "Hey, so I'm taking hormones I bought off the internet, and if you don't give me thyroid tests, and I have a heart attack, I'll sue you for patient neglect and malpractice."
im sure that was mostly sarcasm but I would just say to be careful when threatening doctors with anything. they are the modern day gestapo with incredible powers to have you locked up, with no trial, or repercussions to themselves. I just posted a case of a 68 yo lady who for refusing to follow her doctor's treatment directions, was kidnapped and put in a nursing home. They are now petitioning the courts to euthanize her. Google Beverly Finnegan kidnapped
 

jitsmonkey

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trying to work with your doctor is the biggest obstacle to your recovery.
I know talking ***t about the high priest is frowned upon but sorry he/she is not your friend nor your advocate. #KnowThyEnemy
 

x-ray peat

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as for self treating with NDT I would never tell my doctor that. but you may wish to look into cynomel/cytomel (synthetic) from mexico. Its probably close to the same price as NDT. Also that is what ray recommends as the NDT isnt that reliable. I am taking 2 grains of NDT (Thiroid) and I dont really notice anything. Am thinking about switching to synthetic to see if that works better.
 

DaveFoster

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im sure that was mostly sarcasm but I would just say to be careful when threatening doctors with anything. they are the modern day gestapo with incredible powers to have you locked up, with no trial, or repercussions to themselves. I just posted a case of a 68 yo lady who for refusing to follow her doctor's treatment directions, was kidnapped and put in a nursing home. They are now petitioning the courts to euthanize her. Google Beverly Finnegan kidnapped
It was. I'm not surprised.
OMG, haha. Did you actually do that?
I've done something similar. It's sometimes beneficial to threaten to switch primary care physicians, or rather demonstrate your knowledge to your doctor, which will justify your suggested course of action.
 

Dhair

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It was. I'm not surprised.
I've done something similar. It's sometimes beneficial to threaten to switch primary care physicians, or rather demonstrate your knowledge to your doctor, which will justify your suggested course of action.
I had a conversation today with a doctor about my flouroqinolone poisoning/finasteride debacle. The beginning of the conversation was pretty hostile. He was upset because I assumed from the beginning that he would tell me it was all in my head, and I told him as much. Then he admonished me for attempting to "doctor myself" until I told him about using T3/T4 on the testes to treat my hypogonadism and how it felt like it was curing me. He listened, and in the end, he referred me to a "good" endocrinologist, and he agrees that my testosterone was far too low at 416ng/dl. Surprisingly, he agrees with Ray's idea that the "free" hormone levels are pretty much meaningless. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it's worth it to try and find a doctor to work with, but I at least admired that he was passionate enough to get angry with me in the first place.
 
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DaveFoster

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I had a conversation today with a doctor about my flouroqinolone poisoning/finasteride debacle. The beginning of the conversation was pretty hostile. He was upset because I assumed from the beginning that he would tell me it was all in my head, and I told him as much. Then he admonished me for attempting to "doctor myself" until I told him about using T3/T4 on the testes to treat my hypogonadism and how it felt like it was curing me. He listened, and in the end, he referred me to a "good" endocrinologist, and he agrees that my testosterone was far too low at 416ng/dl. Surprisingly, he agrees with Ray's idea that the "free" hormone levels are pretty much meaningless. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it's worth it to try and find a doctor to work with, but I at least admired that he was passionate enough to get angry with me in the first place.
Good. Genuine expression trumps supplication, and people respect conflict. There's a lot of anger in many professionals, and it's a release to get it out.
 

Dhair

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Good. Genuine expression trumps supplication, and people respect conflict. There's a lot of anger in many professionals, and it's a release to get it out.
I think so too. He was younger than most doctors I've seen, so perhaps not as jaded as older physicians. If he was out to invalidate my feelings, I think he would have simply said, "I don't know what to tell you." The endo will be another battle altogether, so we'll see what happens.
 

DaveFoster

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I think so too. He was younger than most doctors I've seen, so perhaps not as jaded as older physicians. If he was out to invalidate my feelings, I think he would have simply said, "I don't know what to tell you." The endo will be another battle altogether, so we'll see what happens.
In my experience, endos tend to be very open-minded. I've actually mused becoming an endo myself. When you gain insight into the complexity, interdependence, and self-correction of various biological systems, it seems to free the mind in a way and restore faith in the body.

Unfortunately endos have their "estrogen" similar to how psychiatrists (pdocs) have their "serotonin" to cloud their understanding. Pdocs also tend to treat the patient, rather than some arbitrary lab value, so there's a lesser degree of emphasis placed upon autistic adherence to a series of measurable "norms" of various hormones; unfortunately, pdocs also interact with psychologists.
 

Dhair

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In my experience, endos tend to be very open-minded. I've actually mused becoming an endo myself. When you gain insight into the complexity, interdependence, and self-correction of various biological systems, it seems to free the mind in a way and restore faith in the body.

Unfortunately endos have their "estrogen" similar to how psychiatrists (pdocs) have their "serotonin" to cloud their understanding. Pdocs also tend to treat the patient, rather than some arbitrary lab value, so there's a lesser degree of emphasis placed upon autistic adherence to a series of measurable "norms" of various hormones; unfortunately, pdocs also interact with psychologists.
When I went to see this doctor today, he looked at my medical history and the first thing he did was question my history of being on psych meds. The stigma attached to having been treated for mental health issues in the past is like a stain that never goes away, even though I haven't been taking medication for depression for quite some time now. I informed him that I see a therapist, and if he should think that I am delusional in any way, I would be more than happy to put them in contact with each other.
I think I may have some degree of post traumatic stress from being "treated" by psychiatrists and psychologists as a child. I was almost sent to Boy's Town for no good reason. I only suffered from depression. I was about to be checked out of a mental health ward when I was 16, and I noticed that the social worker was taking longer than expected with my parents. I remember having a full blown panic attack and sobbing while watching them through the glass in the other room. I was never violent or exhibited outward anti-social behaviors as a teen. If my parents hadn't fought for my well being in that moment, God only knows what would have happened to me.
 
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DaveFoster

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When I went to see this doctor today, he looked at my medical history and the first thing he did was question my history of being on psych meds. The stigma attached to having been treated for mental health issues in the past is like a stain that never goes away, even though I haven't been taking medication for depression for quite some time now. I informed him that I see a therapist, and if he should think that I am delusional in any way, I would be more than happy to put them in contact with each other.
I think I may have some degree of post traumatic stress from being "treated" by psychiatrists and psychologists as a child. I was almost sent to Boy's Town for no good reason. I only suffered from depression. I was about to be checked out of a mental health ward when I was 16, and I noticed that the social worker was taking longer than expected with my parents. I remember having a full blown panic attack and sobbing while watching them through the glass in the other room. I was never violent or exhibited outward anti-social behaviors as a teen. If my parents hadn't fought for my well being in that moment, God only knows what would have happened to me.
I'm sorry to hear that. You're awful young to have experienced that, but it's all too common unfortunately, not to diminish your experience in any way.

When I reflect, I think of the dysfunction in my own family, myself, all of my friends, their friends, my professors, my previous teachers, and even my doctors. (One of my doctors said that she had panic attacks at one point when I asked her off-the-cuff.)

Mature people understand that it's better to receive treatment than to reject it, and whether that entails hormones, certain medications, environmental changes, family therapy, and so on, it takes many years to develop a sense of balance and confidence. Some have this naturally, but they often lose it. It's only a minuscule margin of people that inherit confidence without any effort, and even these people undergo rigorous trials (since they're often held to a higher standard in their social group.)

Everyone suffers in different ways, but we all share similar experiences, so no one's really alone. I've been on a stretcher a couple times with confidence in my immediate death. Intervening early in life, and giving counsel to our young people to have stable families and relationships with healthy lifestyles can prevent some of these problems. The use of holistic methods, safer temporary therapies, and cautioning people in all things (particularly with drugs, even those prescribed), could relieve a lot of suffering. It's vital to tell the truth, always.
 

Dhair

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I'm sorry to hear that. You're awful young to have experienced that, but it's all too common unfortunately, not to diminish your experience in any way.

When I reflect, I think of the dysfunction in my own family, myself, all of my friends, their friends, my professors, my previous teachers, and even my doctors. (One of my doctors said that she had panic attacks at one point when I asked her off-the-cuff.)

Mature people understand that it's better to receive treatment than to reject it, and whether that entails hormones, certain medications, environmental changes, family therapy, and so on, it takes many years to develop a sense of balance and confidence. Some have this naturally, but they often lose it. It's only a minuscule margin of people that inherit confidence without any effort, and even these people undergo rigorous trials (since they're often held to a higher standard in their social group.)

Everyone suffers in different ways, but we all share similar experiences, so no one's really alone. I've been on a stretcher a couple times with confidence in my immediate death. Intervening early in life, and giving counsel to our young people to have stable families and relationships with healthy lifestyles can prevent some of these problems. The use of holistic methods, safer temporary therapies, and cautioning people in all things (particularly with drugs, even those prescribed), could relieve a lot of suffering. It's vital to tell the truth, always.
Well, I'm 25 now. I guess I was just trying to illustrate how we can be damaged by dogmatic medical orthodoxy early in life to the point that we refuse to put any faith in a system that has already miserably failed us. And if we do, it is at our peril.
Yes, it seems that the people in my life who have always seemed to be "fully functional" (highly androgenic males) were eventually undone by their own egos. I think it is exceptionally evolved to always be aware of the inherent child-like nature of people, which I think is what you are describing to an extent. When I am in a more dopaminergic state, I find it very easy to access these thoughts and feelings. The flaws in myself and others feel trivial, and the bigger picture becomes immediately clear. It's almost too good to be true, but it shows me what is attainable.
 

DaveFoster

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When I am in a more dopaminergic state, I find it very easy to access these thoughts and feelings. The flaws in myself and others feel trivial, and the bigger picture becomes immediately clear. It's almost too good to be true, but it shows me what is attainable.
Today, I contemplated a fortunate aspect of reality: when I'm in a state of competence and peace, I tend to have more understanding (but not necessarily "empathy" in the colloquial sense.) Not only does the path become clear, but we become more oriented in sharing truths with others.
 

Neeters 27

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I was ill a few months ago and went to the hospital where the doc decided to test my TSH based on my symptoms and it was 5.77. My family doctor saw the results and said TSH could fluctuate so to do another test a few months later and if it didn't get better, she would put me on synthroid. After that I was taking raw thyroid by natural sources(glandular) and felt a little better. I got my followup blood test this week and I stopped taking the raw thyroid about 3 days before the test.

The following are my latest results:
Vitamin B12 625 (138-652)
Ferritin 51 (5-272)

Sodium 142 (135-145)
Potassium 4.4 (3.5-5.2)
Creatinine 64 (50-100)
Glomerular Filtration Rate (eGFR) 117


[TSH] 12.6 (0.32-4.00)
[Free T4] 10 (9-19)
[Free T3] 3.8 (3.1-6.2)
Thyroglobulin Antibody 38 < 40
Thyroperoxidase Antibody 24 < 35

I see on this forum that many of you use NDT with lower levels of TSH than this and without a diagnosis from your doctor. I already bought Thiroyd a few days ago and am still waiting on it. How do you guys start taking it and inform your doctor about what you are doing? What do you tell them when self treating and need to get a blood test in 4-6 weeks? The reason I decided to take thiroyd is because I won't take synthroid, and even if my doctor agreed to prescribing a canadian brand of ndt, I am not covered by insurance and it is too expensive.

Thanks.
How are you doing now, 4+ years later? In Canada, Naturopaths are allowed to precribe NDT for several years now, I am on it, and it has helped me a TON. but it took months for me to actually heal my adrenals, as they were overshooting when my thyroid died a slow death at the time of menopause. I also use Progesterone, and pregnenolone, and I am one of those few women that must use Estrogen, as I just dont make any at all, always undetectable in blood tests, and without it I feel like I am dying...my Erfa NDT is cheap as toast, I think I pay 10 bucks a month...
 

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