This Will Make You Never Want To Take Vitamin D Ever Again

[TripleOG]

Poison D!

 

[SOMO]

I don’t think Vit D is overtly toxic, but the argument (from article in OP’s study) that Vit D is somehow pushed on people by the “muh evil Dairy Induhstry” is ridiculous.

 

[tankasnowgod]

This.

When I took high doses of Vit D (by itself), I ended up in the hospital with hypercalcemia.
Hypercalcemia, in case you don't know, is a medical emergency and can result in kidney failure.
Vit D in the absence of the other Fat-soluble Vitamins is not a good idea IMO.

Basically, there is no food which naturally contains Vit D which does not also contain Vit A/E/K. I think the only exception is mushrooms which contain a weaker, different form of Vit D.

How much were you taking? The only cases I have seen of this, both in the literature and anecdotally, have been from either very large doses, intramuscular injections (also large doses), or chronic ingestion over 60,000 iu a day. Of course, that doesn't mean that it couldn't happen at a lower dose, but I'm curious.

 

[SOMO]

How much were you taking? The only cases I have seen of this, both in the literature and anecdotally, have been from either very large doses, intramuscular injections (also large doses), or chronic ingestion over 60,000 iu a day. Of course, that doesn't mean that it couldn't happen at a lower dose, but I'm curious.

50,000 IU daily for maybe 2 months.

In retrospect I now realize that was a huge dosage, but it seemed appropriate because I had depression and almost never left the house and had virtually 0 sun exposure for a few years.

 

[Frankdee20]

I only needed a 5,000 IU dose of D3 to notice a mood elevation. What were your levels prior to supplementing ? Mine was as low as 17ng/DL.

 

[aguilaroja]

The paper is from 2009....
There is too much unknown agenda behind that paper to take it seriously.

This is part of an argument for the Marshall protocol. Proal is a frequent collaborator with Trevor Marshall in papers. Proal's more recent papers describe the microbiome in relation to immunity and chronic disease.

The Marshall protocol has its own web forums and plenty of places to read more.
It is a protocol that is lengthy in time, and may be costly if there is limited insurance reimbursement. It includes olmesartan, pulsed antibiotics, and "avoiding inter-personal stress and environmental immune suppression such as radio frequency radiation", in addition to vitamin D avoidance.

I have heard the Marshall arguments for years, and seen anecdotes of patients and practitioners. I remain interested in Dr. Peat's ideas.

 

[nbznj]

@LucyL nailed it.

Blood estrogen is lower in post menopausal women, but the overall effect estrogen has is greater.

Progesterone opposes estrogen in multiple ways.

Xenoestrogens are the issue, not the picograms of estradiol per milliliter of serum

 

[TheBeard]

5000iu vitamin D3 always made me feel off, whether taken with K2 or without.

My head is much clearer since I discontinued

 

[Giraffe]

I noticed elevation of mood after supplementing 5,000 IU of D3 for a couple of days (close to one week).

 

[Inaut]

I’ve been taking 5k for probably about 6 months and haven’t noticed any negative effects except a potential calcification forming on my index finger joint(maybe..?). Anyways I’ve just recently upped my boron intake to increase mag and D levels. I’ve also switched from mk4 to mk7 recently to test it out. Didn’t notice anything on mk4 and don’t notice much from mk7

 

[Amazoniac]

From the article:

"CYP24 breaks down excess 1,25-D, ensuring that the level of 1,25-D in the body stays in the normal range. But in chronically ill individuals, the VDR (which is blocked by bacterial proteins) can no longer transcribe CYP24. The level of 1,25-D in the body becomes significantly elevated since there is no CYP24 to keep it in check."

"1,25-D binds to the PXR receptor, a receptor that is involved in making another enzyme called CYP27A1. CYP27A1 is responsible for converting D3 into 25-D in the liver. Elevated 1,25-D affects the activity of the PXR receptor in a way that causes less D3 to be converted into 25-D, meaning that the level of 25-D in chronically ill individuals drops."

"Yet another factor contributes to the low level of 25-D seen in patients with chronic disease. An enzyme called CYP27B1 normally regulates the amount of 25-D converted into 1,25-D. When more CYP27B1 is produced, conversion occurs at a greater rate."

¿


"Some claim that 1,25-D levels are not really important because they sometimes appear to fluctuate, and so do not measure them. Or, when they do measure 1,25-D, they automatically attribute a high 1,25-D combined with a low 25D to secondary hyperparathyroidism, a condition in which the kidneys produce more 1,25-D to compensate for inadequate calcium intake. Rather than recommend more calcium, such clinicians mistakenly recommend more vitamin D."

"But secondary hyperparathyroidism can be ruled out by measuring parathyroid hormones, which researchers usually fail to do.[47][32] More thorough studies on several inflammatory diseases[48][49][50] specifically ruled out secondary hyperparathyroidism as a cause for the high level of 1,25D relative to 25D."

"Furthermore, some researchers and physicians who test 1,25-D do not realize that the sample must remain frozen before analysis in order for the resulting reading to be accurate."


"Some clinicians have patients supplement with vitamin D and calcium in an attempt to reverse bone loss. To begin with, patients with chronic disease may obtain less of a benefit from calcium supplements since the calcium metabolism of patients suffering from chronic disease is different from that of healthy individuals.[71][51]."

"Rickets is a softening of the bones that leads to fractures and deformity. The majority of cases occur among children in developing countries who suffer from severe malnutrition."

"[..]a team of biologists at Harvest Medical School published the results of a study on rickets. The researchers engineered mice without vitamin D receptors (VDRs). Since vitamin D can have no effect on the body unless it can bind to the VDR, the mice could use no vitamin D whatsoever in their bodies. The researchers found that if the mice were given a diet high in calcium and phosphorous they did not develop rickets and their bones were just as strong as normal mice with active Vitamin D Receptors.[107]"

"A second study, by the same research team, corrected rickets by replacing calcium and phosphate ions in the bloodstream of mice without Vitamin D Receptors, thereby confirming the results. The team concluded that rickets is not caused by a deficiency of vitamin D but instead results from hypophosphatemia, a condition where the level of phosphorous in the blood is too low.[108]"

"Clearly, low calcium was part of the problem as well. Diminished levels of calcium cause an increase in Parathyroid Hormone, which subsequently causes the body to excrete too much phosphorous. This causes the level of phosphate in the body to drop, leading to the altered bone formation seen in rickets. Joyce Waterhouse, PhD, a researcher associated with Autoimmunity Research Foundation writes, "Low phosphorus is the proximate cause — but low calcium intake is generally the ultimate cause."


"In 2004, a study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition by researchers from the Mayo Clinic, Oregon University School of Medicine, and other institutions confirmed that a low level of calcium can lead to rickets. The team assessed the absorption of calcium in 15 Nigerian children with active rickets. They found that all 15 children had resolution or improvement of rickets after six months of treatment with calcium supplements.[109]"

"Consequently, the US Department of Agriculture website clearly states―Rickets in toddlers is a large problem in parts of Africa, especially Nigeria. It is not due to vitamin D deficiency but is caused by not having enough calcium in the diet."[110] It's certainly no surprise that children in Africa, who get copious amounts of sunlight, are not suffering from a disease caused by vitamin D deficiency."

"If a child with rickets is severely deficient in vitamin D, as well as in calcium and phosphorous, administering a small amount of vitamin D (which will be immediately converted into 1,25-D) can help by allowing the Vitamin D Receptor to turn on genes that affect the absorption of calcium. This probably explains why in the early 19th century, some children given high does of vitamin D were said to be cured from rickets."​

I noticed elevation of mood after supplementing 5,000 IU of D3 for a couple of days (close to one week).

Hi, Giraffe. Hope that you're doing great. You haven't aged at all.

 

[baccheion]

50,000 IU daily for maybe 2 months.

In retrospect I now realize that was a huge dosage, but it seemed appropriate because I had depression and almost never left the house and had virtually 0 sun exposure for a few years.

Did you also take vitamin K2 (MK-4) and magnesium? How much? Did you avoid excess calcium?

I took 100,000 IU for 6 months and serum calcium was still in range. Following, I took 60,000 IU for 1 year. Serum calcium was still in range.

 

[Stramonium]

.

 

[SOMO]

Vit D increases BLOOD Calcium, but increasing blood calcium is generally bad and usually a sign of high PTH (which RP says should be kept low with higher calcium intake.)

Also bones aren't made of JUST calcium, they are Calcium+Phosphate (Hydroxyapatite).

The calcium in milk is also bound to phosphorus.

When you get sun exposure, the Vit D is bound to Sulfate, it is not "free Vitamin D" as in the form in supplements.

Did you also take vitamin K2 (MK-4) and magnesium? How much? Did you avoid excess calcium?

I took 100,000 IU for 6 months and serum calcium was still in range. Following, I took 60,000 IU for 1 year. Serum calcium was still in range.

No, I did not take any other fat soluble Vitamins including K, which I suspect was part of the issue.

The only magnesium I got was a small amount of MgO in a multivitamin.

And my calcium intake was very low - I did not consume any dairy (vegan) and also did not consume many leafy greens either.

 

[baccheion]

Vit D increases BLOOD Calcium, but increasing blood calcium is generally bad and usually a sign of high PTH (which RP says should be kept low with higher calcium intake.)

Also bones aren't made of JUST calcium, they are Calcium+Phosphate (Hydroxyapatite).

The calcium in milk is also bound to phosphorus.

When you get sun exposure, the Vit D is bound to Sulfate, it is not "free Vitamin D" as in the form in supplements.



No, I did not take any other fat soluble Vitamins including K, which I suspect was part of the issue.

The only magnesium I got was a small amount of MgO in a multivitamin.

And my calcium intake was very low - I did not consume any dairy (vegan) and also did not consume many leafy greens either.

Even 100 mcg MK-7 would've helped, but the preferred ratio is 10 IU D3 : 2 mcg+ MK-4.

 

[Giraffe]

You haven't aged at all.

I am fine thanks.

 

[Blossom]

I am fine thanks.

Glad you’re here!

 

[Giraffe]

Glad you’re here!

Thanks, Blossom.

 

[sunraiser]

Well those 14 points could be applied to any and all supplements and pharmacons with slight tweaks.

Ultimately, the human physiology is ultra-complex. We like to think that we understand quite a lot about what is going on, but with every bit of knowledge comes a plethora of new questions and blank spaces of ignorance.
Then there isn’t an optimal state of health. There is only homeostasis - and most important, the fact that we decay and wane with every single day that passes. Some quicker, more drastically, some enjoy phases of stability or slowing of that process - but eventually, every substance that alters physiology as powerful as secosteroids like Vit D are subject to homeostatic mechanisms that we cannot understand let alone control perfectly.
Hence, sometimes for somebody under certain circumstances Vit D might quicken or slow down decline - in direct oder indirect, intertwined ways beyond our grasp

A beautifully articulated post!

 

[charlie]

Thanks, Blossom.

Good to see you!