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This Will Make You Never Want To Take Vitamin D Ever Again

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by Lokzo, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Lokzo

    Lokzo Member

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    The Truth About Vitamin D: Fourteen Reasons Why Misunderstanding Endures
    Summary:

    1.Vitamin D is not a vitamin; it is an
    immunosuppressive steroid.

    2.The vast majority of studies fail to
    account for the long-term effects of
    vitamin D.

    3. Chronically ill people are not
    deficient in vitamin D.

    4. Healthy people are not deficient in
    vitamin D and do not need to consume
    extra amounts of this steroid.

    5.The public does not require extra
    sun exposure in order to prevent
    vitamin D ―deficiency.

    6.Vitamin D does not reverse
    osteoporosis.

    7.Extra vitamin D does not reduce the
    risk of cancer.

    8.Vitamin D deficiency does not cause
    rickets.

    9.Most researchers fail to consider the
    alternate hypothesis about vitamin D.

    10.When it comes to vitamin D, the
    current medical climate of consensus is
    hostile to new ideas.

    11.Research touting vitamin D‘s
    benefits is often biased,
    methodologically weak, and ultimately
    misleading.

    12.The dairy and supplement industries
    are intent on heavily promoting vitamin
    D.

    13.The media is neither well-informed
    nor objective about vitamin D.

    14.We must take immediate action to
    remedy the health crisis that has
    resulted from faulty conclusions about
    vitamin D in chronic disease.

     
  2. OP
    Lokzo

    Lokzo Member

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    This flies in the face of everything I've learnt about Vitamin D.

    I actually feel sick reading it.

    Is anyone else feeling the same way? How can we justify even supplementing this hormone ever again?!
     
  3. nbznj

    nbznj Member

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    Does anyone have solid science on L-form bacteria and chronic inflammation?
     
  4. nbznj

    nbznj Member

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    Looks like a bad diet is where it’s at - who’d have thought

    L-form Bacteria Cohabitants in Human Blood: Significance for Health and Diseases - Nadya Markova - Discovery Medicine
     
  5. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    D without calcium and K2 isn’t safe.
     
  6. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    Well those 14 points could be applied to any and all supplements and pharmacons with slight tweaks.

    Ultimately, the human physiology is ultra-complex. We like to think that we understand quite a lot about what is going on, but with every bit of knowledge comes a plethora of new questions and blank spaces of ignorance.
    Then there isn’t an optimal state of health. There is only homeostasis - and most important, the fact that we decay and wane with every single day that passes. Some quicker, more drastically, some enjoy phases of stability or slowing of that process - but eventually, every substance that alters physiology as powerful as secosteroids like Vit D are subject to homeostatic mechanisms that we cannot understand let alone control perfectly.
    Hence, sometimes for somebody under certain circumstances Vit D might quicken or slow down decline - in direct oder indirect, intertwined ways beyond our grasp
     
  7. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    The paper is from 2009. A time when many doctors and researchers not yet thought about Vit D as a secosteroid.
    When Alternative Health claimed it is a cure it all and Pharma feared it might really be.

    There is too much unknown agenda behind that paper to take it seriously.
     
  8. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    Where is it shown vitamin D is immunosuppressive (in a relevant way) at 30-32 ng/mL?

    The body uses up all vitamin D until serum goes above ~42 ng/mL. A tribe in Africa (black and outside a lot at their native/natural latitude) had average serum 25(OH)D around 46 ng/mL. Both suggest a serum in the 40s is what's desired by the body.

    15,000-20,000 IUs can be produced after 30 minutes in direct sunlight. On the other hand, production tapers to approach 4,000 IU as sufficiency (serum in the 40s) is achieved.

    Evidence.
     
  9. LucyL

    LucyL Member

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    From the paper: "Could it be that the people we call ―Vitamin D deficient‖ actually have a normal level of 25-D? Studies which have tested the level of 25-D in people who live in countries where vitamin D is not added to the food chain prove this scenario to be true. A study which tested the level of 25-D in 90 ―healthy, ambulatory Chilean women‖ showed that 27% of the premenopausal and 60% of the postmenopausal women had 25-D levels under 20 ng/ml.[55]"

    I was "healthy, ambulatory ... premenopausal" with low Vit D level in the 20's, before I was dx with BC. This statement makes me suspect low Vit D levels may be related to high estrogen ( or progesterone defeciency).

    This would be a fun bit to unpack:"...Vitamin D Receptor, the lynchpin of the innate immune system." It builds on both the theory of "receptors" and popular model of the immune system, both of which Peat writes about a lot, and should throw flags that careful analysis is needed before wholesale buy-in.
     
  10. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    Low vitamin D is associated with estrogen in women.

    Vitamin D association with estradiol and progesterone in young women

    Vitamin D Modestly Tied to Sex Hormones in Older Population

    Vitamin D is an important factor in estrogen biosynthesis of both female and male gonads. - PubMed - NCBI
     
  11. nbznj

    nbznj Member

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    Upon second lecture of this paper, clearly this is a low grade publication with massive heaps of logic. Or maybe they’re in bed with big dermatology and sunscreen companies.

    Vitamin D deficiency or rather, serum 25OHD deficiency correlates with cellular 1,25OHD deficiency well enough so that it’s strongly advised to fix the low levels. As always though, more isn’t better, and whoever claims that we should shoot for the highest part of the range has an interest in such claims. Extra Calcification is NOT desirable.
     
  12. nbznj

    nbznj Member

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    Post menopausal women don’t have higher estrogens... come on now. They’re deficient in all Hormones. It’s called getting old, afaik Peat has no solution to this.
     
  13. Dave Clark

    Dave Clark Member

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    Check out the FB group Secosteriod Hormone D. Jim Stephenson Jr. is the admin and post a lot of science on the conversation of this thread. You'll notice Morley Robbins is a member, lol!
     
  14. OceanSpray

    OceanSpray Member

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    Would someone send this to Peat for a comment?
    It’s disconcerting how things that don’t fit the narrative often get ignored.
     
  15. LucyL

    LucyL Member

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    In post-menopausal women, estrogen in unopposed because progesterone levels drop, so there is even greater accumulation in the tissues. Almost no one is deficient in estrogen. If there is a fundamental premise of "peating", it is we all have too much estrogen, some way too much.
     
  16. Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Certainly excessive vit D, be it from the sun or from supplements, is going to have ill effects. As with any steroid, hormone, vitamin, or mineral, it's not simply about the isolated measurement you get on blood labs report, it's about that result in relation to the rest of the lab work.
    I don't know all there is to know about vit D, and I'm in the process of learning like you. I found this video extremely helpful but there's always more to know...
     
  17. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    That's also my current point of view. I used to be on the no supplement camp, but ultimately supplement or not what matters is how the body feels and reacts to what you ingest, do or apply on your skin.

    Anyway with the state of the food supply today, it's difficult to tell even when food is nutritious or detrimental with the additives and the time spent between storage and consumption.

    Vitamin D is present in animal products and so, should be relatively safe to consume in normal amounts.
     
  18. schultz

    schultz Member

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    @LucyL nailed it.

    Blood estrogen is lower in post menopausal women, but the overall effect estrogen has is greater.

    Progesterone opposes estrogen in multiple ways.
     
  19. BigChad

    BigChad Member

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    do you mean dietary calcium, or that extra calcium needs to be taken with D?
    I thought D is meant to increase calcium absorption, so why would supplementing D require more calcium? I mean even if you didn't have calcium, why would that be relevant to D3 being safe, I'd imagine D3 becomes more dangerous the more calcium you consume, while it becomes more important the less calcium you consume?
     
  20. SOMO

    SOMO Member

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    This.

    When I took high doses of Vit D (by itself), I ended up in the hospital with hypercalcemia.
    Hypercalcemia, in case you don't know, is a medical emergency and can result in kidney failure.
    Vit D in the absence of the other Fat-soluble Vitamins is not a good idea IMO.

    Basically, there is no food which naturally contains Vit D which does not also contain Vit A/E/K. I think the only exception is mushrooms which contain a weaker, different form of Vit D.
     
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