This Is A Big Piece Of The Health Puzzle

[David PS]

The hygienist asked about my dental care which is electric toothbrush, flossing, xylitol mints throughout the day and homemade xylitol and bicarbonate soda mouthwash. She said there's not much else I can do in that respect..

Listerine Cool Mint is a necessary evil. Are you using Listerine?

In an radio interview Dr. Ellie said that there are about 900 healthy strains of bacteria in your mouth but only 10 bad strains. 9 of the bad strains are killed by xylitol, one of the bad strains is killed by Listerine.

 

[lollipop]

Listerine Cool Mint is a necessary evil. Are you using Listerine?

Hi @David PS, what constituent in the Listerine cool mint kills this bacteria?

 

[Wagner83]

Had a check up today at the dentist (every 6 months).

I'm booked in again for two more fillings Which makes it 5 fillings and one extraction in the past 3 years. Pre peat I had one filling on VLC Paleo...

The hygienist asked about my dental care which is electric toothbrush, flossing, xylitol mints throughout the day and homemade xylitol and bicarbonate soda mouthwash. She said there's not much else I can do in that respect..

I'm wondering if I should have some blood tests done, but we know for the most part cavities are caused by plaque. Xylitol to effect stops plaque.

What do you eat? Do you have GERDS? How is your digestion? Those are questions worth asking yourself.

 

[David PS]

Hi @David PS, what constituent in the Listerine cool mint kills this bacteria?

I don't know. That is a very good question.

 

[x-ray peat]

Mouthwash may kill beneficial bacteria in mouth and trigger diabetes, Harvard study suggests

hmm maybe we should just let that 1 strain live or only use listerine once a week.

 

[lollipop]

Mouthwash may kill beneficial bacteria in mouth and trigger diabetes, Harvard study suggests

hmm maybe we should just let that 1 strain live or only use listerine once a week.

Or just use some form of grain alcohol and then work with saliva.

 

[Nstocks]

Listerine Cool Mint is a necessary evil. Are you using Listerine?

Not listerine, it's a cheap brand of floss sticks, not floss from a roll.

 

[Nstocks]

What do you eat? Do you have GERDS? How is your digestion? Those are questions worth asking yourself.

Cottage cheese (0% fat)
If not cottage cheese Greek yogurt (SKYR brand)
Goat milk (semi skimmed, sometimes raw)
Hard goat cheese in very small quantaties
Red grapes
Beef and chicken either/or daily
Dried fruit and nut bars (not much nuts though)
In a rush I will eat cereal/oat bars for snacking at work
Coffee
Haribo sweets

Digestion has been bad for at least 8 years. I was hoping Paleo would fix it but it made it worse (all the vegetables). Chronic low back pain is has also been present for around 10 years.

At the beginning of Peat I drank a lot of liquids, this too cause bloating but definitely not GERDS. I suspected I had H. Pylori at one point and took a lot of mastic gum, enzyme inhibitors and raw honey. This helped for a while but became insanely expensive and I don't think it's good long term.

I need to add raw carrot and (unfortunately canned) oysters back into diet.

 

[Wagner83]

Ok, I would question the dried fruits (and nuts, are both all in one bar?), the absence of pleasureable ripe whole fruits (besides grapes), the amount of calories, the absence of butter and maybe coconut milk/oil, the absence of kale (and other leafy greens?). Haribo sweets taste good but I notice issues with them, if you have problems gelatin can be an issue, oxtail soup may be less of an issue or it may be the same. The order in which the foods are eaten may matter, finishing the meals with the cheese or milk may be better than grapes or dried fruits (dates ruin my teeth). Do you have real meals and are they enjoyable? It sounds like you eat very little to no fiber besides some dried fruits and oats. Tyler had a good success using cascara among other things, james IV has interesting posts on fixing digestion*, Amazoniac posted a thread about walking and physical activity relieving constipation.
Did you check your foods in cronometer? It can help pinpoint lack of particular macro-nutrients, nutrients or calories. Some people reported success with low doses of anti-serotonin drugs, I haven't experimented with them.

*He once mentioned the book "Breaking the vicious circle: intestinal health through diet" by Ellaine Gottschall.

 

[Right in Two]

Yeah, so I've been using the system for 3 months and decided to take a look at some pictures I took of my teeth in late January before I started, and was shocked to see that my teeth/gums look WORSE now.

Before the system
- Brushed with a medium toothbrush once a day before bed, usually with some coconut oil (sometimes with baking soda and xylitol mixed in the oil)
- Stored the (still wet) toothbrush in the bathroom in an enclosed holder case (not good)
- Flossed after most meals
- Never used any "artificial" products for oral health, no flouride for 10 years
- No cavities, but some receding gums around a few molars (the reason for trying out the system)
- Never rinsed with anything after meals (not good)
- In general: paid very little attention to dental health

During the system
- All 4 steps in the morning: Closys 1 min, brush with Crest 2 min (mainly on gums), rinse with Listerine 1 min (Original), rinse with ACT 1 min (Mint)
- All 4 steps in the evening right before bed + a headstand for 3-5 minutes (started doing the headstand about 1 month ago, to improve blood flow to the gums even more)
- Bought two soft toothbrushes, one for the morning and one for the evening. Rinsed the brushes in Listerine after brushing, and stored each brush for 24 hours in the kitchen window (sun exposure) until next use
- No flossing (as recommended)
- Started using "artificial" products again for the first time in 10 years (Closys, Crest, Listerine, ACT)
- Rinsed with granular xylitol (brand: Xyla) after EVERY meal/drink, by putting xylitol granules in the mouth/on the tongue and letting the mouth salivate for 1 minute, swishing, and then spitting the fluid out. In total about 5 times a day (1-2 grams xylitol each time)
- Diet and supplements mostly the same; vitamin K (1.5 mg), vitamin D (2000 IU), dairy (>2 g Ca), fruits (~1 g vit C), liver (vitamin A, B-vitamins, iron), low PUFA (<1 E%)
- In general: followed the system religiously and never missed a day (always xylitol after meals, always the complete system in the morning and the evening, I even printed out the cheat sheet pdf and taped it on my bathroom wall)

Results
- Gums have receded (not by a lot, but clearly visible when comparing the pictures I took today with the ones I took 3 months ago)
- Gums have gone from having a nice pink colour, to now have some red areas (gingivitis; red triangles mainly between the upper incisors and canines)
- The last month: plaque between the teeth and gums (never had this before), especially in the morning after sleep. Plaque will oftentimes still be present after rinsing with xylitol after meals, primarily between the lower incisors. I tried scraping away some of the plaque now with a plastic dental pick, and there actually was some (barely noticable) bleeding on the gums (never had that before either) in the area where they come into contact with the teeth
- A few canker sores in the gums that came and went during the first two months (because of the brushing technique Dr. Ellie advocates, where you mainly brush the gums)
- Some molars that were a little sensitive before (e.g. when eating dates or honey) are not sensitive anymore
- Have not been to the dentist since January, but don't think any cavities have formed

Conclusion
I had really high hopes for this system (in spite of my fear of all the artificial ingredients and flouride in the products), especially since reading her blog, the reviews of her book on Amazon and listening to all of the podcasts on One Radio Network. But for now I'm definitely stopping the Crest, Listerine and ACT. The Closys is probably the least abrasive of them all and may have some positive effects, so I may continue with that one (it only contains 4 ingredients - water, chlorine dioxide, trisodium phosphate and citric acid). The xylitol after each meal, will probably continue with that one too. I will also continue to store (and replace often) the toothbrushes outside of the bathroom, and probably continue to disinfect them in Listerine after brushing. FLOSSING however, that is something I will start to do again (but not too aggressively of course).

The system obviously works for a lot of people, but I think some of the ingredients in the Crest (e.g. sodium lauryl sulfate), Listerine (alcohol) and ACT (take your pick) can be irritating to sensitive individuals.

 

[Pompadour]

@Right in Two , thank you very much for sharing your experience!

 

[Right in Two]

@Right in Two , thank you very much for sharing your experience!

No problem. After thinking about it a little more, I remembered one commenter on the OraWellness website (where Dr. Ellie was interviewed) that had some of the same problems with the system: How to help your family be free from tooth decay - OraWellness <- User name: Stacy

So after reading many of the articles on their website, watching some videos and reading reviews of their products on Amazon I've decided to try this "protocol":


When waking up
- Swishing with 1-2 g xylitol for 1 min (then spit it out)

After breakfast (about 30 minutes after taking the last bite)
- Closys 1 min (at least in the beginning)
- Brushing with the Bass brushing technique, with a Bass tootbrush coated with 2-3 drops of their HealThy mouth blend (consists of organic almond oil and organic essential oils: cinnamon leaf, peppermint, spearmint, clove, myrrh and manuka) and maybe some coconut oil
- Flossing with Eco-Dent, GentleFloss (coated in one drop of HealThy mouth blend)
- Salivate-swish-spit, and then rinse with water
- Place tootbrush for 10 minutes in Listerine, rinse with water and store by the kitchen window for 24 hours

After lunch, dinner and supper
- Swishing with 1-2 g xylitol for 1 min (then spit it out)

Before bed
- Closys 1 min (at least in the beginning)
- Brushing with the Bass brushing technique, with a second Bass tootbrush coated with 2-3 drops of HealThy mouth blend and maybe some coconut oil
- Flossing with Eco-Dent, GentleFloss (coated in one drop of HealThy mouth blend)
- Salivate-swish-spit, and then rinse with water
- Place second tootbrush for 10 minutes in Listerine, rinse with water and store by the kitchen window for 24 hours
- 3-5 minutes headstand

If necessary
- Scraping the tongue after brushing the teeth, and brushing the tongue with one drop of HealThy mouth blend or gargle with a mouth wash (1 drop in 1 ounce water)
- Flossing away plaque or food debris during the day, and then using some xylitol


I just placed an order so it will take a few weeks until the products arrive (hopefully in the beginning of June), but if I remember I can post another update in this thread in a few months when the results are in

 

[x-ray peat]

No problem. After thinking about it a little more, I remembered one commenter on the OraWellness website (where Dr. Ellie was interviewed) that had some of the same problems with the system: How to help your family be free from tooth decay - OraWellness <- User name: Stacy

So after reading many of the articles on their website, watching some videos and reading reviews of their products on Amazon I've decided to try this "protocol":


When waking up
- Swishing with 1-2 g xylitol for 1 min (then spit it out)

After breakfast (about 30 minutes afterwards)
- Closys 1 min (at least in the beginning)
- Brushing with the Bass brushing technique, with a Bass tootbrush coated with 2-3 drops of their HealThy mouth blend (consists of organic almond oil and organic essential oils: cinnamon leaf, peppermint, spearmint, clove, myrrh and manuka) and maybe some coconut oil
- Flossing with Eco-Dent, GentleFloss (coated in one drop of HealThy mouth blend)
- Salivate-swish-spit, and then rinse with water
- Place tootbrush for 10 minutes in Listerine, rinse with water and store by the kitchen window for 24 hours

After lunch, dinner and supper
- Swishing with 1-2 g xylitol for 1 min (then spit it out)

Before bed
- Closys 1 min (at least in the beginning)
- Brushing with the Bass brushing technique, with a second Bass tootbrush coated with 2-3 drops of HealThy mouth blend and maybe some coconut oil
- Flossing with Eco-Dent, GentleFloss (coated in one drop of HealThy mouth blend)
- Salivate-swish-spit, and then rinse with water
- Place second tootbrush for 10 minutes in Listerine, rinse with water and store by the kitchen window for 24 hours
- 3-5 minutes headstand

If necessary
- Scraping the tongue after brushing the teeth, and brushing the tongue with one drop of HealThy mouth blend or gargle with a mouth wash (1 drop in 1 ounce water)
- Flossing away plaque or food debris during the day, and then using some xylitol


I just placed an order so it will take a few weeks until the products arrive (hopefully in the beginning of June), but if I remember I can post another update in this thread in a few months when the results are in

good stuff!
I love the 5 minute headstand

 

[Nstocks]

Is gum better than miss because there would be more contact time due to chewing for a much longer period?

 

[Nstocks]

Ok, I would question the dried fruits (and nuts, are both all in one bar?), the absence of pleasureable ripe whole fruits (besides grapes), the amount of calories, the absence of butter and maybe coconut milk/oil, the absence of kale (and other leafy greens?). Haribo sweets taste good but I notice issues with them, if you have problems gelatin can be an issue, oxtail soup may be less of an issue or it may be the same. The order in which the foods are eaten may matter, finishing the meals with the cheese or milk may be better than grapes or dried fruits (dates ruin my teeth). Do you have real meals and are they enjoyable? It sounds like you eat very little to no fiber besides some dried fruits and oats. Tyler had a good success using cascara among other things, james IV has interesting posts on fixing digestion*, Amazoniac posted a thread about walking and physical activity relieving constipation.
Did you check your foods in cronometer? It can help pinpoint lack of particular macro-nutrients, nutrients or calories. Some people reported success with low doses of anti-serotonin drugs, I haven't experimented with them.

*He once mentioned the book "Breaking the vicious circle: intestinal health through diet" by Ellaine Gottschall.

Meals are often chicken salads during the week for lunch and for dinner at home it's usually things like beef and occasional rice or chicken or haddock.

Ripe fruits are mostly poor quality. Grapes are good, don't like apples, bananas are allergic (not sure if I have a problem with them though), strawberries are good when in season and I drink freshly juiced oranges twice a week at most (through a straw). Chicken breast is always fried in coconut oil. I was obsessed with leafy greens (eating an enormous amount at every single meal when paleo) and now I just don't care for them at all. Lets is super bland. Kale chips/crisps are nice but often they have not been cooked which is a problem perhaps. How could I eat more kale without making a smoothie?

I take cascara once or twice per week. In terms of fibre I honestly don't know where to get that; cereals are easy but not keen on eating them. Perhaps again kale would be good but it's terrible quality, comes absolutely covered some white chemical residue which is very off putting.

I need to try harder at logging foods.

 

[Wagner83]

I need to try harder at logging foods.

It's quickly done and will give you a pretty honest feedback, you don't need to do it daily at all.

 

[A. squamosa]

@Right in Two really interesting to read your experience, thanks! I encourage you to keep sharing on this thread :)

@Nstocks I read two of your posts listing the food you ate, it really seems you don't get enough carbs/sugar

 

[YourUniverse]

Does xylitol have to be consumed after eating for the tooth-protection? Or can it be included in the meal? Can I add a teaspoon of xylitol to a jug of OJ to have it protect me from the acidity of the OJ?

 

[Nstocks]

Upon reflecting the past year,I've changed toothospate to using crest which contains glycerin and fluoride, both of which I've avoided for years, my teeth had ejust got worse.

Two teeth needed filling and one has decayed so quickly in the 6 months between checkups that I had to have it pulled out!

I think xylitol still has its place - it really does reduce plaque and other things, but the toothpaste is a no-no. I'm going to go fluoride and glycerin free again.

 

[sweetpeat]

I've had positive results with adopting a modified version of this system. This past winter my dentist wanted to drill and fill two of my teeth. Since they weren't bothering me I decided to wait and see if I could step up my game and repair them. Prior to this I brushed once a day with non-fluoride toothpaste, chewed xylitol gum after eating, and flossed once a day. No rinses.

After that appointment, I started brushing twice a day with the Crest toothpaste, rinsing with a small, diluted amount of Listerine (it's too strong for me straight), and applying the ACT rinse with a cotton swab to problem areas (mainly along the gum line). I still gently floss once a day (it's a hard habit to break for some reason) and chew gum after meals/snacks. I don't use the Closys. I use this product sometimes after meals/snacks: Remineralization Liquid for Tooth Enamel

Results at my next 6-month checkup: the hygienist asked me if I used an electric toothbrush (which I don't) because of the level of cleanliness of my mouth. She said she normally sees that in people who use electric toothbrushes. As for the cavities that needed filling six months ago? Not a word was mentioned. And this dentist is very aggressive about drilling and filling. I didn't ask him, but I assume the teeth had healed.

Needless to say, I'm pleased with the results and will continue my routine. I'm really tempted to ditch the dental cleanings, or at least maybe space them out more than 6mos. I hate them because I have a lot of sensitivity on my lower teeth and I wonder if some of it is from the cleanings themselves. All the scraping over the years. Does Dr. Ellie give a recommendation on how often to get dental cleanings if you're using her system?

Also, my dentist has switched to using ultrasonic scalers instead of the metal tools. Anyone have any thoughts on whether the ultrasonic scalers are less damaging to tooth enamel?